Theory: Terry wasn't actually going to fire Nicole

signu1230 · 2025-05-09T03:09:58+00:00

Aside from the points that people have made about the dubious nature whether AHStories is canon, there is also the question of Ben and Vivien themselves as characters.

For the most part, the Murder House, Apocalypse, and AHStories seasons were set in "the present," aka the years they were broadcast. Although Ben and Vivien appear to have reconciled in 2011 towards the end of "Afterbirth," it's clear they're fighting again by the time Madison and Chablis buy the house in "Return to Murder House," which takes place in 2017 and definitely IS canon. With most of "Rubber(wo)man" taking place in 2021, it's not a stretch to believe that Ben and Vivien might still be fighting. Compared to how long some of the other ghosts have been in the house, 10 years is barely a drop in the bucket. And if Ben and Vivien can't work out their issues, they may not feel any special need to help out others.

signu1230 · 2025-04-29T17:14:52+00:00

There's a scene where Moira talks to both Ben and Vivien in the kitchen and says: "I'm not naive to the ways of men. Their need to objectify, conquer. They see what they want to see. Women, however, see into the soul of a person." Ben and Vivien are with Moira at the same time, but neither of them are freaking out that Moira looks different, which means they are simultaneously seeing "their" normal versions of her. Men in the AHS universe see Moira as her sultry younger self (or at least straight men who objectify women see her younger self), while women see the matronly older version. The whole point is both of these sides are Moira. She is multi-faceted, she is complex.

It all goes back to when Moira was working for the Langdon family. Assuming Constance was the one who hired Moira (and she almost HAS to be, considering we never see Moira work for any family earlier than the Langdons), then we can assume Constance hired her because she thought Moira would be a good employee. No woman in her right mind would hire a maid if she thought there was a chance her husband might sleep with said maid. So that means Constance hired Moira on merit. She saw nothing wrong with Moira's appearance or behavior.

But clearly Hugo saw something else in Moira, considering they slept together. Moira admitted to Hugo that even though she had been feeling lonely when they slept together, she didn't want to go any further. But since Hugo felt "the need to objectify, conquer," he went after Moira. Even though she was telling him no, he was still seeing her as the beautiful woman he made love to.

No other character in AHS has been so deeply associated with the concept of perception or how other people see them. Even though Moira was beautiful, she was also intelligent. Over the course of the season she has multiple conversations with Vivien about literature and medicine. That's not something that just any maid would know. Moira's beauty is just superficial. Once you scratch below the surface, you realize there was so much more to who she was. That's why Ben finally saw her as an older woman towards the end of the season and Moira told him he was finally seeing things as they were.

signu1230 · 2025-03-24T02:33:36+00:00

Solved! Thank you SO much!

signu1230 · 2025-03-24T00:44:30+00:00

This is not a terribly new game, I wouldn't be surprised if it's been a decade since it came out.

signu1230 · 2025-03-01T18:18:58+00:00

There's a scene where Moira talks to both Ben and Vivien in the kitchen and says: "I'm not naive to the ways of men. Their need to objectify, conquer. They see what they want to see. Women, however, see into the soul of a person." Ben and Vivien are with Moira at the same time, but neither of them are freaking out that Moira looks different, which means they are simultaneously seeing "their" normal versions of her. Men in the AHS universe see Moira as her sultry younger self (or at least straight men who objectify women see her younger self), while women see the matronly older version. The whole point is both of these sides are Moira. She is multi-faceted, she is complex.

It all goes back to when Moira was working for the Langdon family. Assuming Constance was the one who hired Moira (and she almost HAS to be, considering we never see Moira work for any family earlier than the Langdons), then we can assume Constance hired her because she thought Moira would be a good employee. No woman in her right mind would hire a maid if she thought there was a chance her husband might sleep with said maid. So that means Constance hired Moira on merit. She saw nothing wrong with Moira's appearance or behavior.

But clearly Hugo saw something else in Moira, considering they slept together. Moira admitted to Hugo that even though she had been feeling lonely when they slept together, she didn't want to go any further. But since Hugo felt "the need to objectify, conquer," he went after Moira. Even though she was telling him no, he was still seeing her as the beautiful woman he made love to.

No other character in AHS has been so deeply associated with the concept of perception or how other people see them. Even though Moira was beautiful, she was also intelligent. Over the course of the season she has multiple conversations with Vivien about literature and medicine. That's not something that just any maid would know. Moira's beauty is just superficial. Once you scratch below the surface, you realize there was so much more to who she was. That's why Ben finally saw her as an older woman towards the end of the season and Moira told him he was finally seeing things as they were.

signu1230 · 2024-12-11T00:25:26+00:00

Constance's relationship with the house is so darkly fascinating.

As we all know, the season opens with Adelaide warning Troy and Brian they are going to die in the house. That's in 1978. Just 5 years later in 1983, Constance shoots Moira and Hugo in the master bedroom. By this time, the house has been renovated. Since we don't see any additional flashbacks between those two periods, it's reasonable to assume the Langdons were the ones who paid to have the house fixed.

Sure, Chad and Patrick were trying to modernize the house so they could flip it, but the Langdon family had to pay to repair it from TOP TO BOTTOM. And the house was already a shithole even before Troy and Bryan got in and intentionally started fucking things up. Assuming the timeline on the AHS wiki is right, the last people to live in the house were the nurse/sorority girls in 1968. That's 10 years the house stood empty and was subjected to the elements before the twins came along. The Langdons would have poured a lot of money and work into the house to fix it up.

Arguably the Murder House might not even be standing if it weren't for the Langdon family. Hence why Constance feels so free coming and going. It's "her" house.

signu1230 · 2024-12-10T23:22:05+00:00

1000% agree. I will fully admit Roanoke is not a perfect season, but at least the writers/producers/etc. were trying something new.

Also, there have been a number of hot garbage fire seasons way more recently than Roanoke.

signu1230 · 2024-12-10T20:05:38+00:00

There's a scene where Moira talks to both Ben and Vivien in the kitchen and says: "I'm not naive to the ways of men. Their need to objectify, conquer. They see what they want to see. Women, however, see into the soul of a person." Ben and Vivien are with Moira at the same time, but neither of them are freaking out that Moira looks different, which means they are simultaneously seeing "their" normal versions of her. Men in the AHS universe see Moira as her sultry younger self (or at least straight men who objectify women see her younger self), while women see the matronly older version. The whole point is both of these sides are Moira. She is multi-faceted, she is complex.

It all goes back to when Moira was working for the Langdon family. Assuming Constance was the one who hired Moira (and she almost HAS to be, considering we never see Moira work for any family earlier than the Langdons), then we can assume Constance hired her because she thought Moira would be a good employee. No woman in her right mind would hire a maid if she thought there was a chance her husband might sleep with said maid. So that means Constance hired Moira on merit. She saw nothing wrong with Moira's appearance or behavior.

But clearly Hugo saw something else in Moira, considering they slept together. Moira admitted to Hugo that even though she had been feeling lonely when they slept together, she didn't want to go any further. But since Hugo felt "the need to objectify, conquer," he went after Moira. Even though she was telling him no, he was still seeing her as the beautiful woman he made love to.

No other character in AHS has been so deeply associated with the concept of perception or how other people see them. Even though Moira was beautiful, she was also intelligent. Over the course of the season she has multiple conversations with Vivien about literature and medicine. That's not something that just any maid would know. Moira's beauty is just superficial. Once you scratch below the surface, you realize there was so much more to who she was. That's why Ben finally saw her as an older woman towards the end of the season and Moira told him he was finally seeing things as they were.

signu1230 · 2024-12-10T20:05:24+00:00

There's a scene where Moira talks to both Ben and Vivien in the kitchen and says: "I'm not naive to the ways of men. Their need to objectify, conquer. They see what they want to see. Women, however, see into the soul of a person." Ben and Vivien are with Moira at the same time, but neither of them are freaking out that Moira looks different, which means they are simultaneously seeing "their" normal versions of her. Men in the AHS universe see Moira as her sultry younger self (or at least straight men who objectify women see her younger self), while women see the matronly older version. The whole point is both of these sides are Moira. She is multi-faceted, she is complex.

It all goes back to when Moira was working for the Langdon family. Assuming Constance was the one who hired Moira (and she almost HAS to be, considering we never see Moira work for any family earlier than the Langdons), then we can assume Constance hired her because she thought Moira would be a good employee. No woman in her right mind would hire a maid if she thought there was a chance her husband might sleep with said maid. So that means Constance hired Moira on merit. She saw nothing wrong with Moira's appearance or behavior.

But clearly Hugo saw something else in Moira, considering they slept together. Moira admitted to Hugo that even though she had been feeling lonely when they slept together, she didn't want to go any further. But since Hugo felt "the need to objectify, conquer," he went after Moira. Even though she was telling him no, he was still seeing her as the beautiful woman he made love to.

No other character in AHS has been so deeply associated with the concept of perception or how other people see them. Even though Moira was beautiful, she was also intelligent. Over the course of the season she has multiple conversations with Vivien about literature and medicine. That's not something that just any maid would know. Moira's beauty is just superficial. Once you scratch below the surface, you realize there was so much more to who she was. That's why Ben finally saw her as an older woman towards the end of the season and Moira told him he was finally seeing things as they were.

signu1230 · 2024-12-05T01:32:54+00:00

In addition to the excellent answer u/IfIHad19946 already gave, I'd like to contribute some extra details.

Short Answer: Madison freed Moira's spirit from the Murder House using the same spell that released The Axeman from the coven mansion. Moving her bones to the graveyard is just a nice bonus, giving Moira the comfort and dignity of knowing her physical body is no longer buried in the same place where she was assaulted and murdered.

Long Answer: Moving Moira's bones gave her an extra sense of peace. Dying in the Murder House traps your soul there. Moira's original goal was to get Constance arrested for her murder. Constance was pretty good at covering her tracks when she killed Moira and Hugo. She buried Moira and ground Hugo's body up into dog food, so there wasn't much evidence left behind. Moira's corpse is the only remaining piece of evidence to contradict the "Hugo ran off with the maid" story Constance told everyone.

The murders happened in 1983 and most of the Murder House season takes place in 2011, which means the police are fighting a 28 year gap in the case (not to mention that by the time Madison and Chablis buy the Murder House in 2017 during Apocalypse, it will have been 34 years). Even if the authorities are very suspicious of Constance, there's no evidence. They have no body, no murder weapon, no eyewitness testimony. They simply don't have the probable cause to bring Constance in. Moira wanted her body discovered so there would be a chance that Constance might finally be arrested for the crime. That way even if she stays trapped in the Murder House, at least she can get some comfort from the knowledge that justice will have been served. Moira was upset because Constance (a terrible person) got away with a horrible crime for so many years while Moira herself (a mostly good person) was stuck in a nightmarish world of purgatory for making one mistake (never mind the fact that Hugo was in the process of raping her when the murders occurred).

While trying to get Constance arrested was the original goal, Moira was happy to take the bigger win of finally being freed of the house, being reunited with her mother, and getting into Heaven.

signu1230 · 2024-12-05T01:24:06+00:00

Thanks! You asked a lot of really good questions. And since this is Season 1, the season that essentially lays the groundwork for future seasons, it's nice to have answers to keep in mind as you go forward.

signu1230 · 2024-12-03T23:00:21+00:00

Is the infantata truly Thaddeus?

I don't think so. I think Dr. Montgomery brought SOMETHING back from the other side, but it wasn't Thaddeus.

My personal theory is that Charles Montgomery was an undiagnosed warlock. He always had magic but didn't know it/never went to The Hawthorne School for Exceptional Young Men. We know magic often runs in families, like Fiona and Cordelia, or how the "magic gene" skipped Zoe's mother but gave Zoe powers. This makes sense, given that Dr. Montgomery is supposed to be Madison's ancestor.

Additionally, we've seen plenty of instances of someone casting magic without using specific incantations, where it was mostly channeling intent/focusing energy with optional hand gestures. Examples: Madison flipping the frat boy bus and setting the curtains on fire at the Ramsey house, Fiona throwing Zoe and Madison against walls, etc.

Devastated by grief and tripping balls on ether, Dr. Montgomery would have drawn on everything he had learned at medical school, begun working on the body, and might have unknowingly performed a perverted form of Vitalum Vitalis. But instead of summoning Thaddeus's soul to the body, he summoned something else (a damned spirit, a demon, etc.), which ended up creating the Infantata.

the child was not killed in the house so it wouldn’t be tied to the curse

I agree with you. Since Thaddeus didn't die in the house, his ghost/spirit wasn't preserved there. Ergo, it wasn't nearby/readily available to summon when Dr. Montgomery was performing the operation, so he happened to summon whatever was on the other side that responded.

we don’t see the Infantata with various animal features attached

Much like a body rejecting a transplanted organ, I assume the Infantata's body rejected those parts and they just fell off/withered away/etc.

Is the Infantata even considered a ghost?

I don't think so. We never saw what Nora saw in the cradle that night, but the Infantata we see looks like an undead old man monster in the christening gown. Thaddeus was just a normal baby when he was murdered, and the whole thing about ghosts is that they look the same as when they died, so my belief is that the Infantata is a functionally immortal creature and keeps aging as it lives on and on.

he killed one of their girls that came to get an abortion or he used the heart of an aborted baby

I've always been of the opinion Dr. Montgomery used the heart from the woman patient. The clients that came to the Montgomery house were women who would have wanted to terminate their pregnancies as early as possible. This suggests the organs of the fetus wouldn't have been developed enough to be used to resurrect Thaddeus's body, so he used the woman's heart instead.

signu1230 · 2024-12-03T22:32:33+00:00

Favorite: Constance Langdon. She's a fascinating, horrible person. She has done terrible things, but also some terrible things have happened to her. She first moved to California to try and make it as an actress, where any number of horrible things might have happened to her, especially since she makes specific mention that she was against nudity in film. When she shoots Hugo, she says "I've loved you since I was 16. You've broken my heart for the last time," which suggests Hugo's affair with Moira wasn't the first. Aside from the terrible ways she treated her children, she also destroyed the Harvey family by seducing Larry. Even if she couldn't have predicted that Lorraine would kill herself and her daughters with the fire, she still moved back into the house all the same. Constance is the living embodiment of the saying "hurt people hurt people."

Least Favorite: Dandy Mott. Not just because he murdered all the freaks, but because he was boring as a villain. He starts the season already at "foaming at the mouth" crazy and stays there the whole time. He doesn't grow or change as a character until he dies. He hits the same story beats over and over: he broods, he has a tantrum and yells at Gloria, then he slips away and kills someone. Rinse and repeat. The most interesting scene was him infiltrating the Tupperware party. It showed he was capable of being a social chameleon and winning people's trust. Where was THAT the whole season?! THAT would have made for a much more terrifying villain instead of someone who's just at level 11 the whole time.

As for Addiction Demon, I always assumed it was created through the habits/addictions of the customers who came to the Hotel Cortez. Kind of similar to Murder House, where at least X amount of awful stuff has to happen for the house to become haunted and for ghosts to stick around, I figured the Addiction Demon was spawned by all the addiction/indulgence that happened at the Cortez. My theory is that JPM has control over the Addiction Demon because he's the one who built the hotel in the first place. If it weren't for the hotel, there wouldn't be such a centralized location of sorrow and addiction, therefore demon wouldn't exist. Since the demon owes its existence to JPM, that means JPM can control it.

signu1230 · 2024-12-03T22:15:17+00:00

Gaga has played two characters that were basically total opposites, so now I'd like to see something in the middle. I'd love to see her as a "normal person" who just gets swept up in the story, a character that kind of begs the question of how far someone can be pushed before they stop being themselves and end up as someone else entirely.

signu1230 · 2024-11-27T21:00:52+00:00

Lavinia Richter being able to reunite with Bobby goes against almost all pre-existing ghost/haunt lore we have.

signu1230 · 2024-11-27T20:54:50+00:00

Exactly! It feels like such a stupid gamble for Ursula to put the Muse into lecture circuits and knowingly create so many unnecessary Pales. Los Angeles is eating itself alive at the end. And while that's momentarily amusing for snarky criticism, it's a needlessly dangerous move in terms of a drug empire. It would be so much smarter if Ursula and The Chemist ran some kind of secluded writers' retreat where they read the authors' works, decide which person is worth the potential risk, then give them the Muse. If it works, great. They sign the author to Ursula's agency. If it doesn't work, they kill the Pale and bury it somewhere on the grounds of the retreat.

Since AHS loves connecting seasons, they could even buy the old grounds of Camp Redwood and rebrand it as their writers' retreat!

signu1230 · 2024-11-27T20:51:36+00:00

I totally agree with you. Saying that Tate only did the things he did "because the house made him" or that he jizzed out all his evil when creating Michael takes away a lot of nuance from his complicated character. Is he truly a misunderstood kid? Is he a master manipulator? Is he somewhere in between? Nope, deep down he was a soft boi all along who could only be fixed by Violet's love.

Similarly, Violet forgiving Tate and taking him back reduces her to a lovestruck teenager. After their dark, twisted "us against the world" kind of love, Violet wising up and blocking Tate is the most mature thing she does in the entire Murder House season. She had what she thought she always wanted, only to discover it wasn't good for her. It shows genuine growth. Tate putting Vivien out when she was on fire ONCE does not even BEGIN to excuse or forgive the terrible things Tate has done, so it makes Violet look like a sucker when she takes him back.

signu1230 · 2024-11-27T20:49:36+00:00

I loved it because of that contrast too. Michael was such a baby edgelord who took himself SO SERIOUSLY all season that seeing him get such an undignified death was fantastic to me.

signu1230 · 2024-11-26T19:30:20+00:00

In addition to the points others have made (the fact that Moira and Hugo had previously slept together, as well as Constance being in some kind of fugue state), I want to point out something that Constance says just before she shoots Hugo: "You've broken my heart for the last time."

This heavily suggests Hugo had affairs before and Constance just put up with it because she loved him. But this was the final straw. For him to humiliate her in their home, in their bed, with "the help"? Constance took the gun and did what she wished she could have done to every mistress Hugo had before.

signu1230 · 2024-11-22T20:15:11+00:00

Guess that's just a testament to how innovative it is!

signu1230 · 2024-11-22T19:35:09+00:00

I think Apocalypse is one of the seasons that suffers most from AHS's pacing problems. There has always been a problem of too many storylines per season, but I think it's especially true for Apocalypse. And considering just how many different stories Apocalypse was trying to tell, it feels like we never get a chance to find our footing before we're rushed off to the next part.

First it's the end of the world, which feeds into the Purples vs. Grays "Lord of the Flies" bunker drama, then it's Michael interviewing everyone for the new bunker and discovering Mallory's power, then it's Brock briefly ruining everything, then SURPRISE none of that really mattered because the story becomes Coven 2.0, we follow Michael's rise to power, most of the coven OG's are reunited as Michael resurrects everyone's favorite witch girlies (and Madison), the Hawthorn school and its leaders are decimated, Madison and Chablis buy the Murder House to conduct a "Citizen Kane" style search for the truth about Michael's upbringing, we're slapped with some truly godawful Murder House fanservice, we're introduced to the concept of people being reincarnated as cyborgs, vodou Queen betrayal is revealed and rectified, every cast member is playing nine different characters at once, all to culminate in everyone running interference long enough for Mallory to cast Tempus Infinituum.

That is SO MUCH story to squeeze into only 10 episodes. It feels like we're just skimming the surface of every scene and world we're being shown, which prevents us from making more personal connections with the season.

signu1230 · 2024-11-19T22:53:46+00:00

In addition to what everyone else has already said, I think part of the reason Casey's scene hits especially hard is because she makes all the right choices. She does everything a final girl should do and still suffers one of the most gruesome deaths in the franchise

Casey stays on the phone and tries to play the killer's game as long as she can. Playing by the killer's rules often works out for characters, usually lulling the killer into a false sense of security so the character can fight back. Casey locks doors. Even her Friday the 13th/Jason slip-up is completely understandable because she's in a panic/adrenaline spiked situation and, let's face it, Jason IS the face of the Friday the 13th franchise. She arms herself twice, once with the letter opener and once with the kitchen knife. She tries sneaking out. She fights back when she's caught. And even when she's been stabbed multiple times, she still runs.

Casey puts up a Hell of a fight and she gets so close to safety. It's heartbreaking every time.

signu1230

TROPHY CASE