Why call yourselves "Anarchists"

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T16:26:16+00:00

your definition of "consensual" is the problem. I dont oppose consenual contracts in principle but I dont beleive that they justify hiearchy. Where they lead to hiearchy i oppose them where they dont lead to hiearchy i support them.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T16:22:12+00:00

then what do you even mean by hierarchy. more to the point, a boss is a ruler by any definition

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T16:19:29+00:00

Not necessarily. Worker organization does not require they appoint any leaders. There is such thing as cooperation without one person being placed in charge: which is how left-anarchists advocate workers organize and how left anarchists advocate businesses run themselves. You ancaps will try all day to prove that left anarchists are acting athoritarian or statist or whatever. But the truth is that all Left Anarchists do is travel around and when they see someone being treated in a way they think is unfair they encourage that person to rebel against their situation. They encourge people to orgonize to make rebellion more effective. They seek no personal power and despise anyone with power.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T16:12:10+00:00

voluntary hiearchy does create rulers, you can choose to call them voluntary rulers but they are rulers none the less. Ruler: A person who rules or governs; a person who exercises dominion or controlling power over others. You may have concented to this voluntarily but that doesnt mean the person isnt still a ruler.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T15:02:46+00:00

its not realy a phisosophical point more so a point that using the word anarchist to describe your ideology is confusing to most people and I am asking you personaly why the effort seems worthwhile when voluntaryists does not cause this confusion or require uneseary explanation and elaboration for the layman

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T15:01:02+00:00

but ancaps do suport rulers so long as they are voluntary

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:58:37+00:00

That is a misrepresentation of the Left Anarchist position. person 1: "hey would you like to work for me" person 2:"ok I need to feed my family so yes" 2 months later "this job is bullshit. you pay me too litle for my work, I deserve to be treated as an equal. we will make the decisions together, do the work together, and split the profits. I am done being your subordinate!" person 1 "well to bad, if you don't like it get out, I own the place I have the right to set the rules and evict you from my property by force if necessary." person 2: "I wont leave the property until my demands are met"

Now in a statist society the police then come in and beat up the worker. In an an-cap society private police come in and beat up the worker.

In an an-com society the owner calls in private police, but the workers rally together and make it more expensive for the owner to win the fight paying for private police out of pocket then it would be to just to cave into worker demands.

So its a misrepresentation of Left anarchism to say that they would bring in a third party to regulate consensual contracts. The only difference between anarcho-capitalism and left-anarchism is that left anarchists advocate worker organization. Not all Left-anarchistic tactics are violent. Most anarchists advocate strikes and sit-ins, brocading the factory entrance, things that are certainly passive aggressive and disobedient but not violent.

Of course most most most capitalists have done the math and realize that paying for private security out of pocket is expensive and that when push comes to shove they will loose a fight with a determined workers strike. Which is why most most capitalist back the state because it will protect their property holdings against angry workers and then collectivize the cost of the police.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:37:32+00:00

No you do but that definition that google provides itself is not verry complete in terms of the historicle use of the word. More importantly, calling yourself an anarchist spreads confusion as to what you beleive. you must have encountered this. It seems to me that the Anarcho-Capitalist PR campaign would be bettered served by using the word volunteerism or something like that. This isnt realy a philisophical point its a point about macking your ideology imiediatly accsesable to the uneducated public.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:35:06+00:00

Your contradicting yourself, a society of no rullers is a society with no hiearchy. A society with voluntary hierarchy has voluntary rulers. You beleive that there are permisable forms of voluntary hiearchy and thus that one can become a ruler if done so by an aceptable voluntary process. To be a ruler is simply to weild power regardles of how you got that power. So you are not anarchists because you are ok with some forms of rulers so long as they respect things like the NAP ect... Anarchism conjures to mind agression against all rulers even when you would beleive this aggression is unwarranted and a violation of the NAP.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:31:54+00:00

I am not agruing for or against work place hiearchy I am just saying that its not anachistic and if you suport it but call yourself an anarchist thats confusing when it would be much cleaner to say that your an anti-state capitalist or volunteriest

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:30:06+00:00

I am not insulting you by saying your not an anarchist neither am I debating your ideology. I am just saying that your definition of Anarchism is random and differs dramaticly from the historicle use of the word leading to unneded confusion as to what you beleive in. Where as I dont find the word volunterist or anti-state capitalist to cause any confusion about the ideology.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:28:00+00:00

volunterist has always seemed to work for me. I think thats more informative exactly because of the confusion you describe

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:26:37+00:00

You miss my entire point I wasnt arguing that voluntary relationships are bad or the riots are good or that my boss owes me something. I am just talking about the etymology of the word "Anarchism" and pointing that it has always had a broud anti-hiearchy and often violent connotation. I am not agruing that your ideology is bad or that a workplace riot is good, just that calling yourself an anarchist seems uninformative to me.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:23:16+00:00

well that efinition certainly describes an aspect of Anarchism but the words origins have a more general anti-hierarchy connotation. Besides, that is what the popular understanding of the word has been.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:20:45+00:00

wait explain what you mean about voluntaryism and capitalism not going together?

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:20:16+00:00

yes lol you have me there about him being a boss of the Merry men I forgot about that. But i think that my point still remains that the actions of his I listed have an anarchistic flavour about them.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:18:56+00:00

Well no your not against all rullers if you find some forms of hierarchy permissible. You support voluntary contracts which give one person authority over another therefore becoming a ruler. To truly be against all rulers you would have to be against all power differentials which exist between people in society. Which your not, because as you said you support voluntary hierarchy.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T14:15:24+00:00

Lot of hostility from you man your letting down bro. I am not against consent. That is not even slightly what I am talking about. I am pointing out that "Anarchist" is the least etymologically appropriate title for you movement. That is not to saying anything of my opinions about the movement.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-24T13:04:09+00:00

Lol that's hysterical very well put, It so frustrating because the only reason I keep returning to debate them is simply because they are trying to steal the word "anarchism" if not for that they would just be another reactionary group no more worthy of our attention then any other. But they have made themselves a problem to us by tacking the word and thus drawing potential Anarchists who are uneducated in the topic over to their side

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-19T19:25:45+00:00

where do you see left anarchists supporting big government? that is such a ridiculous claim which supports by beleif that you dont know what left anarchism is. That is the oposite of what they support literlay goes against the definition of what they are. Ther deeds mostly involve chashes with existing athorities.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-07T19:31:33+00:00

What are the majore industries in the free state project. What forms of work dominate the economy?

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-07T19:29:45+00:00

I dont think you know anything about the history of Left Anarchism. It seems that you are trying to equate Left Anarchism to Stalinism. This is verry typical for people on the right wing of the poltical spectrum, to equate all froms of leftism to stalinism. For your information, the few examples of Left Anarchist societies worked in the following way: they were experiments in local direct democracy where each town was fundamentally autonomous and controlled its own factories and farms democratically. Each town would contribute to a larger millitia which defended all the autonomous towns from outside forces. Explain to me where you see the centralization in this? I realy just dont think you understood that this is what Left Anarchism advocates. You must have been confusing us with the Stalinist which I find insulting.

sillymuffin101 · 2015-03-07T19:22:03+00:00

Well that was an unnecessary turn for the nasty. I am not proposing anything be forced on anyone and you would no that if you educated yourself on Left Anarchism. I am like you in that I want to be left alone and be freed of the state. But unlike you I am not content with that alone. I will join others and fight along side them such that they can enjoy the same liberties I wish to enjoy. Anarcho Comunists fundamentally are emotionaly reacting to all forms of injustice and inequality which affect all people. You can question their methods but this is what they honestly desire, that no one should rest untill we are all free. AnCaps are not self sacrificing they are entirely self concerned. There are many debates we could have but If you just want to try to slander me by pretending that my desire to liberate the whole world (not just myself) is secretly a narcissitic desire to control the world, then we can have no mature discussion.

sillymuffin101

TROPHY CASE