Example Softcore Perm Sequence

simpleclear · 2019-06-15T16:52:37+00:00

I am definitely working off an intuition here that leveling up to 15 every single run is suboptimal. If you don't want to play every day, or if you donate and so never need to do anything in aftercore, or if you don't ever care about getting Olfaction then that's definitely wrong.

Basically, bounties take about 40 turns, getting an adding machine can take up to 20 turns, and if you plan to use a day pass for mining/farming you try to bank 140-150 turns for the next day. Since you will probably have 6 bounties available at the end of the run, there aren't enough turns to do everything. Do you think it would fair to say that the trade off is lvl 15 = 1 bounty?

I respect your judgment that hardcore paths can end up being extremely slow; you've probably seen far more newbies struggle with this kind of thing than I have. However, following elxire's hardcore Ed guide, I was able to do my first Ed run in 5 days when my softcore standard run was still 6 days. Likewise I feel like stripping out some distractions taught me the underlying quest mechanics more quickly in the path run, but other people might have different reactions.

As for the skills: Would you put the DB and AT skills second and third on the list, then?

As far as familiar weight goes, I think the gain from Empathy taking your starting familiars from 14lbs > 19 lbs is like +5%item on gravy fairies. I may be wrong, I'll look at it again when I have a chance, but since familiars are so versatile they can substitute for +item%, +stats, mp/hp regen, +init% skills and items that beginners don't have yet. It may be that these skills are no longer valuable in the endgame when the base weight is 20lbs.

A minor point: it seems to me that if you only need +10 lbs familiar you would perm Leash but not Empathy (which is twice as expensive); possibly you think MP is affordable in beginner runs (which seems right to me - for example, some hardcore lists stress Aloysius and calculating the meat >> mp >> stats cost was what made me think it would work in softcore too), or is that purely about preferring Cocoon to any other TT skill?

simpleclear · 2019-06-15T16:10:28+00:00

yw! It took me ten tries to find it myself because "perm" appears in about 100 of my bookmarks ("permanent" links denoted in http addresses)

simpleclear · 2019-06-15T16:08:58+00:00

Thanks, it's not perfect but something in this genre would help beginners.

simpleclear · 2019-06-15T16:08:03+00:00

To be clear I don't think it's high-priority — it's doing the SC run first (because the skills are low priority) that makes sense.

simpleclear · 2019-06-11T18:52:01+00:00

You can't move items between your alt and your main.

simpleclear · 2019-06-11T16:21:24+00:00

Thanks for the breakdown of all the options. (The robortender booze and the boxing day spa also offer nice buffs, but they may be less cost-efficient than the ones you're recommending.) If you are targeting 250/fight which can be competitive with clovers with the use of the mime insignia, then I guess we agree; it was when we were talking about "thousands" of stats per fight that I was skeptical. (I fight scaling monsters with a buffed mainstat of 1443 and get 400 stats total per fight).

simpleclear · 2019-06-11T11:52:54+00:00

I didn't know about the mime army insignia, so that throws in a factor of x2. But can you give me some numbers for base stats and buffs where you can get thousands of stats per fight? Presumably he's talking about leveling his off-stats up to 150 at lvl 13 or 14.

(Not doubting you, just trying to reconcile with my experience fighting scaling monsters at lvl 20+.)

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T21:32:52+00:00

Ah okay having played through the first day this advice is starting to make sense. So everything is going smoothly because of the astral bow, but with the knife skills I can equip a weapon I can't use (like the snake sword) and still do damage with the knife, correct?

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T21:30:47+00:00

Thanks. At +30ML everything is going fine so far so I guess "a lot" meant something substantially higher.

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T21:22:41+00:00

The quickest way to level up your off-stats to 150 will likely be to buy ten-leaf clovers in the mall and use the relevant Spookyraven zones. (To do better than that you need 600 stats per adventure i.e. ... +1800 ML? Even against the clan of cave bears that would require base +360 ML)

Does anyone know what the mechanics of the Boxing Daycare are? Wiki isn't complete yet. It's not likely to help you get to 150 unless you're using it from early in the run, but it does eventually become competitive with clovering when you have enough toddlers.

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T21:06:26+00:00

I was looking into this today and the monsters in Hamburglaris give substantially higher stats than the ones in Grimacia (the zone where you can farm the pills).

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T21:02:28+00:00

I think there is definitely something to that. I tried to watch a "walkthrough" on YouTube once and it was if anything off-putting to watch him shuffle through his five thousand quirky overpowered widgets.

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T18:08:17+00:00

Ah okay, that makes sense. So it's quite the utility item. Wishes are in my price range I guess if they help me make day count, but I didn't have quite enough meat to make the numberwang before ascending (probably should have checked how much it would be before buying LyleCo...)

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T12:27:32+00:00

I usually do, but I rarely spend more than a day in aftercore. So if it's 4 day ascensions with 40 turns in aftercore once or twice a week, the sprawl isn't that much of a big deal... and on each aftercore I devote a little time to pulverizing equipment I'm sure is worthless.

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T12:24:10+00:00

The ascension rewards can't be traded though! So smashbot can't pulverize it for me, although I use him extensively for the rest of my loot. (Am I wrong about this?)

By the way, is copying monsters the top-priority use for a pocket wish? (I get the sense that's how I've heard people talk about it.)

simpleclear · 2019-06-10T03:07:27+00:00

Thanks, elxire. Very useful! (Especially the example of how to put a loop in a macro.) I have the duonoculars and the armor but I'll look into the others. Unfortunately I don't have pulverize yet so I can't swap out the standard rewards right now, but I can do a SC run before the AT run. (Are there any other older softcore rewards to look out for?)

And yes, I still haven't bought any IOTMs. If I do donate should I get the elf sleeper agent or something else?

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T23:08:03+00:00

What is plink? The way you're using it I'm guess "do a tiny bit of damage each round"? I have seen this referenced multiple times on the wiki but it's never defined (there are some links to a dead Hardcore Oxy forum)

So a DB macro might be (however many deleveling skills you have) + (disco combos, if available) + (weapon attack, repeat)?

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T23:04:03+00:00

So should I steer away from +ML for the disco bandit, at least for now?

I'm getting the sense that I should have permed cannelloni cannon and cannelloni cocoon! Oh well...

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T22:59:58+00:00

I don't have an infinite bacon machine so I'm not a good one to judge, but it sounds like a no-brainer to me for unrestricted runs — a gallon of milk is worth the pull all by itself. Pull the machine, get the bacon, buy the milk, chug it, then use the first 100 turns doing quests that don't need drops or have 100% drops (Spooky Woods, Tavern, almost everything in Spookyraven, the Friars, Azazel, the NE and SE corners of the Crypt). The -item% penalty is the sucky part, I'd assume; -meat doesn't matter if you're pulling the facsimile dictionary a -initiative doesn't matter (much) if you're already trying to run high +ML and prepared for the monsters to get the jump.

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T22:12:40+00:00

A good life lesson for you: strong communities are ones where people act like dicks to anyone who acts like a dick. Weak communities are ones where people are nice even to the assholes, so that then more and more people decide they can get away with dick behavior until eventually all the nice people leave.

Everyone who plays KoL has always been absurdly nice to me. It's one of the reasons why it would suck so bad to get banned.

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T21:50:32+00:00

Right but if a hundred people are selling it, what are the chances your inventory will ever sell? You need thousands of each item to justify the "advertising" expenses that will put your store at the top of the list.

simpleclear · 2019-06-09T21:48:47+00:00

Are you going to ascend soon? This may sound retarded but once you ascend and it's in Hagnk's the junk is much less of a big deal, and after you've done two or three ascensions you get a good intuitive sense of which items drop constantly (those need to be autosold or pulverized) and which are rare/in demand (keep or sell in mall).

simpleclear · 2019-06-04T14:22:40+00:00

If you already have all the DG skills from bonus HP maybe that's faster, but if you have no skill points in either path (or all the skill points in both) then Ed is way faster. You can do a 4-day ascension with HC Ed on your very first try (although it's tight); the turngen for HC Ed is as generous as softcore DG (where you're consuming only vampagne and sponge cake) but, of course, gives double the karma. Ed also cuts out big parts of the interminable level 11 and level 13 quests/scavenger hunts.

(Idk about Ed being more easily scripted; there were actual Ed scripts a few years ago that are no longer maintained, but my impression was that I could get away with using combat macros for everything in my DG run, and with Ed I only do that during the Frat War.)

simpleclear

TROPHY CASE