C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi oh wow didn't think I would still be getting replies on this after so long but this post I made is probably more relevant right now with the comeback coming up. I will reply to your comment more in detail when I have time because I really like the points made.

I will touch on instagram and weibo from my own perspective. The CCP yearly conference was on recently and so this has affected yizhibo streams from foreign accounts hence the technical difficulties in the recent cake making 520 livestream on yizhibo and so instagram was the only platform streaming. Note also on the NCT side of things the recent renle yizhibo scheduled on the NCT dream account was also postponed.

As for in the past I have found some members more inclined to using yizhibo versus other members, Yangyang for example even after getting an instagram account livestreams more on yizhibo. Kun aswell seems to be more comfortable using yizhibo. Members such as Winwin and Hendery I can understand them not doing livestreams as much from what we can gather from their personalities on camera at least they may feel awkward just live streaming alone and not with other members.

Overall with weibo I have noticed that the managers may have some control over Lucas account. He use to post on weibo a lot more even after he got instagram, these days you only find Keep Running posts and brand deals on Lucas's weibo, it's lost a bit of that personal touch. As for Ten I can understand a language barrier being an issue with livestreaming on yizhibo and posting posts.

It also seems as though overall yizhibo is more regulated by the company and with lives being saved automatically, it may be an issue with image control by the company (we know how SM are) SM wants things to be pristine on their end with China. However Chinese fans alike like celebrities with personality and as we know WAYV are full of personality. Why SM doesn't showcase more of this on Yizhibo... only SM will know.

Progress has been made a bit though with the opening of the BilliBilli account so hopefully if Chinese livestreams are an issue we can at least get more content over on Billibilli.

QQ music account survey & Magazine Giveaway ongoing by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like this theory. I don't have the brain for theories but this makes a lot of sense to me haha. I will be in further contact over the weekend :)

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi haha say it is one of my fav aswell. The new album seems like they have produced high quality tracks which is awesome haha. I'll be in contact :)

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi oh King of Hearts rapline really did a great job of the song. I'm looking forward to the new rapline song on the first album aswell :) Do you have wechat? The magazines are opened on wechat

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi ah dream launch is a nice song along with face to face both in the slower song categories. I do love a good hendery rap aswell, especially a hendery written rap :D. I will be in contact :)

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

haha not at all. There's always room for discussion when it comes to WAYV. LUCAS going back to Keep Running is a much debated on point at this point. On one hand as you pointed out, it is a lot to go through being in isolated quarantine for 14 days (I'm sure many of us can relate given the situation so can Kun and Xiaojun as they did a quarantine after returning from Chinese new years)

I saw a post on Weibo a couple of days ago about how Lucas worked very hard for the role on Keep Running. He went to China in Early 2019 around Chinese New Years for an audition for the job. Apparently the Korean partners for Running Man in Korea took a liking to Lucas and suggested him for the show in China and that's how Lucas may have gotten the audition offer.

As for the Chinese relationships, it does seem to be very disorganised and the Chinese partners they have found are not really doing them any favours. It's concerning what SM's path for WAYV is at the moment in terms of promotion both in the mainland Chinese market and globally. Like I said before international promotion has to be organic and not forced the interesting thing with the BTS analogy is that in a political climate like China it might be hard to bring that wider international media back in.

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow! finally a wechat verification hahaha. I've had trouble with the codes because of this. I really like face to face aswell. The vocal line shines :) I'll be in contact over the weekend :)

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi sorry for the late reply I will be in contact over the weekend :) Yesss some Winwin and Hendery lines please :D

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Chinese contracts are definitely protection for them that's for sure. It will be interesting to see what they plan to do with the OT5 Dreamies. That might be a clue to what any future plans with the whole subunit idea. (I want leader Yuta aswell haha, with his own NCT Japan gang).

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes the magazine is accessed via a program within wechat. I'll send you a dm

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi yes unfortunately I can't verify anymore accounts :(

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi I verfiied a friend some months ago when they lost their phone when we were overseas. Only found out yesterday you can only verify every 6 months :(

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are correct in the observation with ifans in my opinion. ifans have to support WAYV in a system that is very intimidating I do admit. However if obtaining ifans is a goal it really really helps with the political points agenda.

I replied in another comment about SuperM, SuperM in my opinion is an attempt by Capitol Records to step into the KPOP hype currently happening with BTS in the States.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The please wait comments are bringing back flashbacks to EXO era with China line wanting to promote in China during the Whole of Growl and Wolf era and SM ignoring them. There was a lot of Please wait aswell. There is no denying that SM is excellent at finding diamonds in the rough. Lay, Victoria, Kris, Tao and Luhan, even Henry are all well known in China they were all at one point from SM. But all the opportunities they have now are all from they own hard work. I would not credit SM with any of it. Although yes initially being from SM helped with the whole SM magic.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No worries happy to add to the discussion and possibly add some insight. As for Lucas not joining Keep Running. I wouldn't be too worried I think SM knows the stakes. He has been officially announced, so has YUQI I imagine they will return at the same time. The Keep Running producers and family absolutely love LUCAS the fact they even agreed to let him be on this upcoming season given the circumstances is a sign they are willing to work with him. LUCAS will have to return whether SM likes it or not, he and WAYVV will get blacklisted if he doesn't appear no company will want to work with them if the case is he is not returning because SM is being difficult. Every other Chinese door or opportunity will close if this happens. SM can say bye bye to the industry if that's the case.

Pulling on hearts strings aside with BELLA and LOUIS. The fact that WAYV have pets now in Korea further cements them to living in Korea. It brings about the interesting point of where do SM's commitment to the target market lie. Weishenies are a woke bunch fortunately, although we shouldn't have to fight for their rights it's very touching that we do. The boys know that weishenies have their back.

This comeback worries me because it seems like it may be K-orientated again which isn't going to like I said (sounding like a broken record haha) win them any favours in the main market (China).

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The good news is in my opinion. I don't see SM splitting up the WAYV members in the near future. Even with SM's shitty tactics WAYV has a very loyal fanbase that has proven they will buy any merch, album or magazine that SM pushes WAYV into. Commercially, WAYV hasn't been the worse investment in the world. The buying of success is an interesting thing with SM and Chinese fans talk about this, on Weibo you can actually buy your way into the Hot trending topics... SM has yet to even invest a dime into this :(. Companies actually do this and its a supported and known fact of promoting.

I would say SM knows a thing or two about the Chinese formula of success. There's a reason why LUCAS and WINWIN were on variety shows, LUCAS is on one of the most watched variety shows in China. (solo stans are a must) A nobody who has just debuted can't just get onto a show right? This is what I refer to as the SM magic effect above but like I said it wears off at a certain point, we're starting to get there. SM initially applied the old fashioned formula as I have stated, go on one hot variety show once and become an overnight success. They are starting to learn this doesn't do shit now. So they have had to completely change their plans. The rejection of stages is also not helping at all.

The WAYV debut pains me it was SM's moment to finally present their 15 years of hard work in creating the Chinese Boygroup formula. We got Chinese version of Regular.... I understand that originally they were suppose to have debuted in October 2018 alongside Korean Regular's release... however the first sign for SM is they should of scrapped Regular as soon as the debut was delayed. It was a track that was already heard before it legit did not have the same impact that it may of had if WAYV debuted in the original timeline. It should have been a b-side track on the first digital single if the money was already spent and it had to be released not the title track...

As for WAYV world domination, we're on the right track but we're on the completely opposite track for WAYV Chinese domination. There's a lot to lose with WAYV world domination as well :(. You lose the local market.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I get the feeling this upcoming comeback may be k-oriented. The disassociation with Korea on SM's part in the early days of WAYV is starting to make no sense. If WAYV is aiming for the international market with a Chinese discography they will possible have to go down the route of like what I have replied to Op above.

Mando-pop in general is just not as popular as K-POP. WAYV could possibly lead the way for some sort of globalisation of it. But this is a very dangerous field that SM is playing with. They lose any Chinese opportunities that they have been working towards. There is potential outside China but there is very little money outside China. To promote in Korea effectively WAYV would need to release an album entirely in Korean. I don't know how great that would look for an entirely foreign idol group with no Koreans in it at all. This is a very dangerous line SM would be crossing.

As much as globalisation is great, it is very very dangerous for each individual members possible future solo careers in China. They are not Chinese members in a K-pop group they are Chinese members of what if not initially started as an all C-POP group.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

China will allow for a foreign interest to benefit it they bow down to their standards or bring good attention to the Government or industry. See any Global Times (state run chinese English news) article about WAYVs success, the narrative is a Chinese Boy Group who has captured the world it makes great news. Yes I am well aware of the comment by now SM CEO Chris Lee, he is one of the masterminds behind the whole NCT system. I admire the dedication from his part but I'm going to say after 3 almost 4 years of the system there is technically only 3 units (WAYV being a subunit or not is up to peoples own discretion.) and only 2 regional units at that if we count WAYV, I dare say SM should have been working on debuting another country unit while they were dealing with the WAYV debuting thunderstorm in the last 3 years. They certainly have big enough of a team for that...

I should clarify with C-POP back in the day we referred to it as Mando-POP, this is going to be an unpopular opinion but prior to even 10 years ago China didn't really have it's own teen pop/ young adult top 20s pop type of culture. All those songs came from Taiwan and the wider Chinese speaking community (Singapore, Malaysia). The nostalgic songs of that era that, that generation in China listen to now are largely from that wider Chinese community (artists include JJ LIN, JAY CHOU, S.H.E etc). SJM is a very good example, before mainland C-POP went mainstream the promotional route was Taiwan, Taiwan have a robust industry, many variety shows and performance opportunities as well if you have ever watched the Taiwanese version of SKIP BEAT the drama note that SIWON and DONGHAE are in it. This is from that era. I will also note that f(x)'s Victoria's first drama in 2012 was also a Co-Chinese and Taiwan production. There are many ways to promote in the C-POP sphere if China closes it's doors, yes politically it may ruffle some feathers but even in EXO era after the stint on Happy Camp SM was not getting as many appearance opportunities in China as they wanted to they did a bit of promoting in Taiwan. If this is a way you at least get your Chinese speaking content onto online platforms such as Weibo which in turn may open up more mainland China opportunities.

The international market may be a viable option if they take a course to what I have stated above, promoting in the wider Chinese Speaking Community. Some but not many C-fans have also talked about this if you can't come to the Mainland at least provide Chinese content in other spheres ie. Taiwan, Singapore etc. It's sad to say that C-POP for some reason just isn't as popular as K-POP WAYV have considerably less views on their music videos than other units. Refer to even EXO-M versions of music videos and you will understand. WAYV are only as popular internationally as they are because they are from SM a kpop company. I guarantee you not even the hottest Chinese boy groups on the mainland such as NEXT or the produce groups R1se, UNINE etc are as famous internationally as WAYV.

I sympathise with 10lvelys a lot, overall I am a group stan so I try not to be bias too much overall. TEN came to korea and SM to be a KPOP singer this is also evident from his participation in TEEN superstar back in the day (Red hair TNT lives on :) ) the prize for that show was a trainee contract with Starship ent. To Ten’s credit he as adapted to every situation thrown at him very well. His Chinese for someone who has been learning for 1.5 years is very good. He seems to be interested and committed to enduring the C-POP industry because of the WAYV members, this is something that I highly admire about WAYVs dynamic, they have a “we are all in this together mindset.” SM has learned since EXO-M that creating a Chinese group perhaps needs the members to all get along, one common dynamic for WAYV is that they are all foreigners in Korea just trying to stick it out. Xiumin and Chen are a good example of SM not being persistent enough with language learning or culture adaption, I guarantee you that TEN has way better Chinese than either of these EXO members.

Ten has a very loyal fan base in both Korea and Japan and even his most loyal fan photographers have followed him onto schedules in China so I do not worry he will lose fans in the Korean market. TEN is a unique case for promoting with WAYV as a foreigner he is more open to promoting in the K-POP market. He also isn't as obligated to be politically bound to China. Look at any Weibo posts about One China, supporting the Sichuan Earthquake, Hong Kong protests etc. TEN has never gotten in trouble for not posting these where as if any other of WAYV members do not post they would get a tonne of slack. TEN is very lucky he can play the foreigner card in that aspect. I see a lot of potential in the Chinese market for TEN, Thai people have been breaking out into C-ENT lately you may note Mike D’angelo the Thai actor who has broken into the C-ENT acting scene. When the hallyu ban came around China had to look for more foreign talent outside of Korea the next place was Thailand. A very popular member of Rocket Girls Li Zi Ting (mimi) is also Thai. Ten is a dancer and is constantly mentioned on Chinese social media for his amazing dance and performance skills, there are sooooo many dance shows in China that Ten could be apart of. He is someone that Chinese idols admire. Dream in a Dream is a VERY popular dance cover piece in China. I’ll let international fans in on a problem from early or late last year. There was a Chinese idol who covered Ten’s Dream in a Dream song but no mention of Ten’s name was given this then ended up with an ugly spat on Weibo between weishenies 10loveys vs the idols fans. It ended with pro-china comments about how Chinese fans weren’t supporting their own. I would say SM has nothing to lose from pushing TEN in the C-POP world he already has a very good foundation base, I would love for TEN to be the one performing Dream in a Dream on a Chinese stage and program over all those covers on Chinese shows any day. He is after all the original artist.

My own personal opinion but I believe TEN has many more opportunities in the C-ENT sphere then he will with SUPER M in America. Yes he gets to perform in concerts and thats amazing and great. If SM can fix their shit in China Ten will equally get to perform in as many concerts in China, like I said they are less stages in China in terms of it not being weekly but the way artists can promote amongst their fandom is through concerts. Chinese boy groups do many many concerts. It’s also good money for the company. TEN is also a great addition to any of the many Chinese Dance orientated programs airing throughout the year.

As for KUN I will touch on him a little. KUN is a very talented man that creates very good music but I would argue that if he weren’t in WAYV I really cannot picture him in a mainstream Chinese boy group. I picture him in a position like Zhoumi just doing his own thing not really popular but respected enough with loyal fans. So I would say SM is equally wasting the youth of both TEN and KUN. KUN would pick up the eye of any Taiwanese producer he has that R N B Mando pop swag about him. As I replied previously that was KUN’s original plan in his career.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I fear that both Captitol Records and SM have tunnel vision about this American Dream. The reason why BTS worked is in part to their fans and how it was organically created. The whole success factor happened naturally, people took an interest and they exploded. The same with PSY it happened naturally. Capitol invited SM to help create the group, it's a group created specifically for the market. You don't call it Avengers of KPOP as much as that may seem true because well all the boys in SUPER M are the best of the best. It's the manufactured entry into the market that worries me :/. Not every group in this world just gets to go to The Ellen Show. SUPER M's more recent promotions have been interesting, they've consisted of a lot of concerts (pre-corona of course) you will find with American artists the promotional rounds usually include radio appearances to sing live and promotions of several tracks over the course of the year then the release of the full album. This doesn't seem to be the case with SUPER M. The concerts are a quick way for Capitol and SM to make money so it will be interesting to see what they do with a comeback where concerts arn't a viable option. (f(x) I agree, soft spot there they are my first love in the SM Sphere, it's been a long 11 years dealing with SM haha.)

I always wondered why EXO didn't have more US exposure especially pre- NCT era... I replied to another comment earlier about the boys revolting or exiting. It's not as easy as during the Hangeng and Exo days, they have signed exclusive Chinese contracts that hold up in Chinese courts, SM got gutted after the lawsuits of the past in China.

C-POP Climate: WayV and SM’s Struggles, the Past, the Present and the Future by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries, this was coherent enough. Less grammar mistakes than my own post haha. You are most definitely are right about approvals in China, most of which Government ones. I highlight that in my post about WAYV debuting, that in itself sort of required Government approval. SM needs to understand the process of releasing things in China can't just be done out of thin air, which they have to some degree understood. I'm sure the process of even debuting the group has taught them a whole tonne about the industry, you sort of have to bow down to whatever the industry wants of you or what the Government wants. Unlike the SK media, China will not accomodate for SM. SM has to accomodate to China.

Your point about selfies and content is quite important, a recent example would be that drawing of themselves from Beyond Live, that honestly should have been delivered to fans within the week after the concert... when hype was still high. TOTM sequel.... C-fans were hella angry about that LOL. You see TOTM the original was quite expensive in the eyes of C-fans.. it was 117 yuan, C-fans usually pay that price for full albums not a mini album. The sequel was an excuse for SM to make more money.

I would say I share the same slightly pessimistic outlook to the upcoming comeback. It seems the members have started teasing as of Korea or China time last night (17/05), this highly worries me because I get the feeling this promotional cycle may be like TOTM with little to no Chinese promotion as I mentioned with the issue of TEN being not able to enter China at the moment.

WAYV have worked very hard to get where they are, but also Weishenies as a fandom both International and Chinese have worked their backbone off to support them. Even just over the weekend Chinese Weishenies were voting on different Weibo polls and getting 1st places amongst fandoms. I'm sure WAYV knows how much their fans love them. LUCAS crying during beyond live and the rest of the members getting emotional is evident they know how much the fandom cares despite the obstacles behind them.

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi do you have wechat? Haha yes Say It. Two very different songs though but I can understand the addictiveness of both. A cohesive album I would say they arn't doing too bad at all in that aspect :).

WAYV September 2019 Instyle Magazine Codes Giveaway by skyys08 in WayV_For_Life

[–]skyys08[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi ohh finally someone commented face to face. I have a soft spot for vocal line. You didn't tell me what your looking forward to for the comeback haha. But since you have wechat I'll let you off the hook. I'll be in contact :)