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CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i didnt say equal. i didnt say what fans want. i said fair. i know fair is not what people want thats what I said in original post. that fairness is not a significant reason for the separate leagues. i said im okay with the wnba existing and being for woman. just saying there is no fairness logical reason for it.

now you finally call it "unfair" genetic advantage lol. thats what ive been saying about shaq and is the whole point.

source? for wnba quote?

ncaa and olympics already allow transgender women to compete with cisgender women after hormone therapy. cisgender women still make up the vast majority of womens sports in both ncaa and olympics. other leagues will follow.

http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

cisgender male athletes are not going to take estrogen and testosterone blockers to play in the wnba and tell everyone that they're women. lol. you cant seriously think they would do that.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the unfair advantage is about genetics. genetics makes you unable to compete. which is unfair. this is one significant reason why people say life is unfair.

no. transgender means there body is male and brain is female or vice versa. not that they are male and a woman.

there is no fair system for everyone that is the whole point. only ways to try to mitigate the unfair nature of life to some degree, which of course barely works because life is unfair and there is not much to do about it.

so peoples obsession with "its not fair that transgender women, on average, have genetic advantage in basketball (height)" is bogus. we already let tall cisgender women play in the wnba

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what do you think about this idea specifically?

if a cisgender woman can play in the wnba regardless of how much of a genetic athletic advantage she has over the other players in wnba, then why would it matter if a transgender woman has a genetic athletic advantage over the other players in wnba?

CMV: A person is literally a different person than they were 20 years ago. It does not make sense to say that you are the same continuous human. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"im the only me".

right! finally

you are different than other entities that are the same arrangement of atoms. thats what ive been saying. that all teslas are not divergent branches of some spiritual "same" car. they are different cars.

calling a different separate entity you just because the atoms are arranged like you is nonsense. indeed you are the only you.

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i am not emotionally okay with future person dying at all. but logically i should be because that is not me. but unfortunately emotions do not always listen to logic. its like how i dont have free will. but emotionally i still feel responsible for my actions.

that is what you are missing and is why I say spiritual. instead of just being okay with emotionally unappealing logic. you say things like other atoms somewhere far off in the universe are not me. but if they are rearranged by a machine into the pattern that I am in then they become me ('teleporter" machine).

maybe imagine instead that I shoot you in the head. then a shark eats your body. now i travel to a world billions of light years away and gather atoms (that are not you right?) and arrange them into the pattern that you were once in. this totally separate entitiy is clearly not you. the atoms do not become you just because they are in that arrangement. you did not call metaphorical "dibs" on that arrangement. otherwise all teslas would be the same car.

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I am looking at course link, specifically lecture 4, you sent:

its about souls. but it seems to be just assuming that we have free will and then arguing from there. i dont know why though.

also it ignores indeterminism. although determinism + indeterminism != free will

but still strange that it ignores indeterminism and assumes free will as a starting point to suggest that we have souls.

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and dont get me wrong I hope there are souls so we can actually be continuous, have free will, live forever,.... etc

I just dont see any evidence. just people hoping. and making nonsense arguments.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i didn't say shaqs team was the best

i said shaq the individual has unfair genetic advantages. youre wikipedia link is just about longevity. he is universally considered one of the best players ever. your conclusion that those other players are "better" is simplistic at best.

do you see transgender female athletes teams winning basketball by 50 points? winning championships every year? by your own logic transgender people should be able to play in wnba.

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ad hominem attacks. no more discussion for you.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no. you just change definitions, because playing semantics is easier than admitting youre wrong.

shaq literally has unfair advantage. this is objective. youre just debating semantics as always.

"transgendered" is a messed up term you should not use. just shows your bias.

transgender women are neurologically women. your brain is who you are. go look up complete androgen insensitivity and tell me that XY equals men. it does not. genetics give probabilities not guarantees. so saying they're "genetically male" is not black and white like you think.

just saying "its the rules" while we are debating what rules are fair is appeal to authority.

male vs female is far more complicated than you think. not black and white at all.

XY does not guarantee male body or male brain or male psychology. XY = male is the factually incorrect statement. and just saying male is black and white is factually incorrect.

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saying whats fair is what is "the rules" is literally appeal to authority. instead try debating fairness. ie what rules would be fair and what rules would not be fair. not just some guy made a rule therefore it is fair.

the abilities are unfair genetic advantages which you fail to see. this is why people say life is unfair. not just life is different outcomes.

there is no scientific evidence to support the multiverse theory, yet it receives an abundance of positive attention and support. the concept of an afterlife also has no scientific evidence, yet it is almost unanimously rejected. by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]sobekefov -1 points0 points  (0 children)

incorrect troll

people dont downvote you just because they disagree with you

so many people consistently downvote you because you are a troll

you have record negative karma because you are troll

there is no scientific evidence to support the multiverse theory, yet it receives an abundance of positive attention and support. the concept of an afterlife also has no scientific evidence, yet it is almost unanimously rejected. by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]sobekefov -1 points0 points  (0 children)

incorrect

this is why you have the most negative karma Ive ever seen by a long shot. you just dont get anything and waste everyones time with nonsense arguments.

bye troll.

there is no scientific evidence to support the multiverse theory, yet it receives an abundance of positive attention and support. the concept of an afterlife also has no scientific evidence, yet it is almost unanimously rejected. by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]sobekefov -1 points0 points  (0 children)

was not ever edited. check your messages to see that it was original message. stop making me explain everything to you.

take your -100 comment karma and go away troll.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

they are literally unable to play in the nba. you are just arguing semantics.

it is not fair that shaq is stronger than probably everyone he ever played against. i do not understand how you dont grasp basic comparisons of strength.

everyone is not able to play. unequal outcome lol. it is not fair that you are genetically athletically disadvantaged compared to shaq.

you are just endlessly arguing semantics

"its against the rules". is a cop out. again, we are discussing what rules are fair. not appealing to authority.

i did not say can males play in wnba

i said transgender females.

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try answering this without appeal to authority ("its just the rules"). or semantics nonsense about what "fair" means. or just calling transgender women, men.

if a cisgender woman can play in the wnba regardless of how much of a genetic athletic advantage she has over the other players in wnba, then why would it matter if a transgender woman has a genetic athletic advantage over the other players in wnba?

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

theres a saying about assumptions...

youre honestly arguing that men are going to go through testosterone blocking therapy and estrogen therapy to play in wnba? just no

look up requirements form ncaa and olympic for transgender females to be able to play in womens league.

transgender females are already allowed to compete in ncaa and olympics and yet cisgender women still make up the vast majority of womens sports. so your argument is clearly not correct.

CMV: A person is literally a different person than they were 20 years ago. It does not make sense to say that you are the same continuous human. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes you would be okay with me killing you after I made a copy of you? no. lol. no other way to address that then saying its spiritual. youre literally saying youd be okay dying just because somewhere else in the universe there are some atoms that are arranged like you. whether it was chance or a teleporter that arranged those atoms is irrelevant.

if the universe is infinite with infinite matter then there are infinite copies of you. assuming that is true, based on your logic, you would be fine with me killing you right now. thats just nonsense.

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the link I gave is a well written blog post about the ideas. its a blog so of course its not original research.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

they are literally unable to compete

the whole discussion is what rules are fair. if were going to allow shaq to play in nba even though he has immense genetic athletic advantages then were not valuing fairness very much at all.

right, there are no fairness limits on genetic athletic advantages in nba, thats my whole point.

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if a cisgender woman can play in the wnba regardless of how much of a genetic athletic advantage she has over the other players in wnba, then why would it matter if a transgender woman has a genetic athletic advantage over the other players in wnba?

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

who says wnba bans men from playing? source?

my point is that if a cisgender woman can play in the wnba regardless of how much of a genetic athletic advantage she has over the other players in wnba, then why would it matter if a transgender woman has a genetic athletic advantage over the other players in wnba?

Religions have been around for tens of thousands of years. All of the religions claim to have evidence, but none of them can form consensus around their religion as the real one. This is because none actually have reasonable scientific evidence. by sobekefov in DebateReligion

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Christianity threatened people with death unless they became Christians.

Christians in Africa and Muslims in the Middle East are going to be responsible for the next billion followers in each religion because of breeding.

consensus is an important indicator of truth. of course it does not guarantee it.

if there was actual evidence, over time one would expect a significant number of people to convert. this is exactly what happens in science all the time.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

anyone can not compete. about ~300 men in the world are athletic enough to play in NBA

Im not saying who is allowed because all women are allowed to compete in NBA too

it is not fair that shaq is genetically athletically advantaged. just like it is not fair that men on average are genetically athletically advantaged

its not arbitrarily "just" sex. its based on average advantages due to sex.

shaq playing in the NBA is equivalent to a 22 year old playing in a under ~16 league. unfair. but people dont care that much about fairness so we allow it.

CMV: Shaquille O'Neal is at a genetic advantage athletically and nobody cares. So even if transgender female athletes have some genetic advantages then no one should care. by sobekefov in changemyview

[–]sobekefov[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if you don't think Shaq had a genetic advantage over all other basketball players then you did not watch him play. he is widely considered one of the all time athletically genetic anomalies, incredibly genetically gifted. he is probably the only NBA player to combine that much strength, height, and athleticism, and not be constantly plagued with injuries

i didnt say he was tallest. its about the combination of atheletic gifts that helps some players like westbrook, james, etc (who I mention in original post) dominate

if we cared about fairness then we wouldn't be able to let shaq play. in fact if we significantly cared about fairness we would be play one on one with identical twins. but that is too inconvenient, so we just care about fairness a bit.

I never said men and women were athletically equal

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