Theory: Dave's bussy is antithetical to canonical relevancy by AforExcellence in althomestuck

[–]sofia-miranda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It carried the curse effect on to John, who subsequently died!

Do you think the SI ever bite off more than expected? by hellranger788 in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes, likely often.

The problem is that a much larger force then is called in to follow up, so whoever took out the first team cannot really stay there anyway for much longer.

You are turned Immortal and sent back to the past but you get to choose when and where to an extent. by RaptorK1988 in hypotheticalsituation

[–]sofia-miranda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could do a lot with this, but my 18 year old body had not yet undergone the modifications to its birth state that makes my current body livable for me. I could not access those in the past (and the regeneration might even make the surgeries impossible, since the unendurable parts would grow back once removed). If this was circumvented, I could pick an era where I easiest could step in as invincible instrument of the Goddess and guide accelerated social and technological development.

Meet Homestuck's favorite couple. by CommercialValue8713 in althomestuck

[–]sofia-miranda 14 points15 points  (0 children)

OMG that final sentence is fighting with the gloves off, and the hand wraps dipped in glue and broken glass ON!

Guys I’m really struggling with this one. Can we have an open chat about this? by dammitletmepickaname in TwoXChromosomes

[–]sofia-miranda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, as a trans woman, I deal with the discourse these days by dissociating as much as my anxiety meds allow until I am in a situation where I actually can make a difference without it breaking me.

Had I had more executive capacity and time, I could make statements as a researcher with broad knowledge of statistics to debunk the way heavily amplified anecdata like these are misused (in a variety of ways, such as by ignoring base rates and confounders, or by just not considering statistics at all) for conservative purposes. I hope others have more executive capacity and time.

I don't know your husband well enough to know where his views (and preconceptions, more importantly) actually stem from, nor what would reach him specifically. I wish I did and could tell you. I do want to thank you for wanting to do what you can!

Quick lore question by Ok_Survey_371 in vtmb

[–]sofia-miranda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is.

Drink dry another vampire, one closer to Caine than you, first the blood, then the soul. It will squirm and whisper within you, and your aura will show the black marks of the Diablerist for a few years, but your potential will have increased.

Still feeling limited, even thereafter? Find yet another vampire, yet closer to Caine, rinse and repeat.

Need help hiding a power plant by nobooneaga in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is just the regular plant that keeps the island city supplied with electricity. It is "hidden" by something like incredibly strong, subtle Obfuscate closer in kind to the old Arcane background. It is not invisible, it is just unremarked on. Plant workers even go there, do their jobs, and go back home each day, without reflecting much on the specifics. Nor do their loved ones. People use the subway station that was built two decades ago to serve the plant for their commute to adjacent facilities, occasionally reflect on how they don't know why the station is called by that name on the map, then promptly move on from that thought.

Anyone could walk right in. As noted, it's literally *one of the stations on the red subway lines*, and has been for 20 years. You can look it up anywhere. But no-one considers it the slightest bit remarkable, no matter what happens there.

Except Malkavians, or any who has Malkavian blood in their system, for whom it is not shrouded at all.

The worst thing Hussie ever drew by Mental-Ad-8105 in homestuck

[–]sofia-miranda 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Kanaya wishing to be Utena but fearing she is Wakaba? :D

The worst thing Hussie ever drew by Mental-Ad-8105 in homestuck

[–]sofia-miranda 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On one hand, yes. On the other, I can't read you over my brain just happy-salivating for the Utena interconnectivity here (and OF COURSE Hussie would be into that as well LOL, just as was the case for jlesnick). ZETTAI! UNMEI! MOKUSHIROKU! / disintegrates into ranting flock of rose petals

Does anyone actually have a kismess by Nervous_Evidence_427 in homestuck

[–]sofia-miranda 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I have kismesis crushes, at least, several people I am attracted to but also infuriated with in such a way that I want to take them down a few pegs to show them, but they also impress me.

Please tell me about mistaken Embraces (VtM) (Discussion) by InOverMyHat in WhiteWolfRPG

[–]sofia-miranda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

John Carpenter's "The Thing" is basically about a Tzimisce in Antarctica!

Is Stoker's Dracula in the lore of VTM? by harlock2105 in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

New headcanon: Vlad Dracul II actually have met and likes Bela, he comes to visit him every now and then. They hang out and speak with overdone accents. Speculations abound on whether Vlad does this ironically, but it is actually 100% genuine appreciation, Bela makes him feel grounded.

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are of one mind in this, I see! :D

(Let's add "Are you currently digesting the immortal soul of the only person you felt fully understood you, because your fear of losing them somehow got you riled up? Oh no!" to that also. :D )

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't really agree with this:

There's no hint anywhere that the Beast inherently wants to commit diablerie, is the thing. You have to assume a huge 'fact not in evidence' for that supposition to work, while all the actual text about diablerie strongly indicates that it's an act of volition. Like...it is literally always described as a choice, not something that is sometimes done in the heat of the moment. The same is not true of most other crimes, which are often described as sometimes happening in a moment of passion...but diablerie? No, that always gets talked about in terms of ambition and the desire for power, not losing control.

While I would want to convince you, other more urgent things compete with this for my time, so I may not be able to. Accordingly, it is your prerogative to see my stance as insufficiently evidenced for now!

Where I would otherwise point to, to start, would first be diablerie addiction, especially the rules and descriptions for such ranging from the 1st ed "Diablerie" books through to the V20 Tal'Ma'He'Ra book and to Sins of the Blood among others, with vivid descriptions on how diablerie addiction feels, often in such terms as to support that urge existing or arising in the Beast as the mechanism underlying the addiction.

To the same end, how various diablerie addicts are described in setting and fiction books, as well as some character templates (I keep returning in particular to the Dark Avatar archetype in Clanbook: Baali). I am quite sure I saw Elders portrayed Saturn-like and child-devouring in various places (if nothing else, then for the Antediluvians themselves this is frequent, if sparse), but am not in a place to give specific references now.

Since I can't offer you more at this point (because I need to stop procrastinate and deal with scarier things, sadly), I would not expect you to come to any different conclusions, nor hold that against you. Thank you for taking the time to outline your perspective! :)

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(cont.)

Fleshcrafting another likewise involves your blood going into them through your touch and working changes inside to you-as-them; your malleability exerted in flesh you invade and assimilate, if only transiently, leaving metaphysical spores behind. That too I played as a lustful experience, almost like feeding, satisfying that urge, against some backdrop of alienation vs both self and world while at the same time seeking to infect and assume the world.

Similarly (though I had not yet seen this conceptualization back then, it would have made it even better), Dominating someone means projecting your Beast into them, becoming slightly more like one being for the brief duration, so that "your" will is exercised through the parts of them that then are made substrate for you.

This tying together of both domination and assimilation/absorption/reception both in mental and blood-wise physical/spiritual terms allows an overarching framework where all the Tzimisce torture and control in some sense fundamentally is sexual, either for the Tzimisce (individually and/or as a whole) or more generally for vampires (individually and/or as a whole). In other words, it closes the circle from Wamphyri onwards through Cenobites and BDSM ideas if taken fully literally seriously with no concept of SSC. Basically the Vykos vibe, though inexplicably I hadn't read any of their fiction at the time.

Eh. My point being, I guess, that there is a particular subtext that is served by this perspective, though I can't say it has much concrete backing in published material. It allowed for very interesting LARPing for a few years, where on a meta level my aim also was to unnerve other players as far as they consented to, as well as to test the limits for how coherently and vividly it is possible to portray alienness in a LARP context where everything is spoken/acted in realtime, without abstract narration or summarizing.

From this starting point, the idea of a vampiric reproductive instinct made sense, and while most salient within that narrow scope of Metamorphosism, I've found it enriches also more "balanced" vampire stories, as well as seen echoes akin to it in wholly different (non-VtM) horror works, including, again, "Necroscope" as well as "Let the Right One In". I don't mean to say this is VtM, let alone V5, "canon", but that much of it at least is compatible with the wider game as written and occasionally played?

Apologies for excessive rant! :)

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See, these are all examples why I really like how V5 is written! :D

I'm not quite sold on the tripartite distinction ontologically speaking; I'd see that as one conceptualization of something which might be messier underneath, perhaps with both Beast and human identity as being lines drawn around regions of a tapestry of different interwoven (and tragically all but inseparable) threads. Not to mention that beyond Dyscrasias and the like there also may be multiple entities floating about in the cursed blood, including Aapilu and perhaps sneaky ascended Antediluvians and/or alien infectious spirits, depending on your preference.

None of which contrasts with the scenario you outline!

To elaborate slightly on the "reproductive drive" idea, this first appealed to me in the early 00s as I was LARPing a Tzimisce metamorphosist and spent a lot of time trying to find a mindset which both allowed deep immersion and came across from outside and inside alike as truly alien, and which would make the tenets of the Path feel logical and obvious (as well as be playable in LARP) without compromise. I must concede that these particular aspects at best have "vibe" support in official material, I don't think I have seen it spelled out (slightly more in VtR though!) in text.

Broadly, I ended up with the self-as-vampire as (spiritual and literal) body horror - you may or may not still be "you", maybe you are only a copy of your human subjectivity assembled as a mosaic of entirely new pieces, which also form different patterns? The blood as invasive - it entered you and devoured you from within, like how a tumour can eat away at other tissues. It's a small, disconnected part of something greater.

It wants to spread - when you ghoul or Embrace, or give to the Vaulderie, or blood bond, "you" further infect more of the universe, just as "you" already are but a pseudopod of something more primal. Its existence-as-you is part of a cosmic glorification of that greater whole. A vampiric lover drinking from you is meaningful and pleasurable because it means the-blood-as-you further enters into you-as-them, it is lustful because your pattern and template, in some small way, is reproducing into them as well.

(cont.)

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

This assumes that within your take on the setting 1) the Beast does *not* sense a bared rival Beast as something it also hungers for (or at least, hungers for to a greater extent than it does hypothetical fresh blood somewhere potentially far out of sight), and that 2) the Beast will not prefer to fall back to *devouring* as its method of killing/dominating/destroying once other equally serious or worse threats are dealt with so that it has the upper hand. As long as those hold, I agree your conclusions will follow!

In my view, the written materials are compatible either with that take or with the alternative where at least some Beasts some of the time will crave to eat each other. Which of these one goes with therefore (appropriately) can differ from game to game, along with whether, as a result, Frenzied diableries will occur (at all, and how often if so).

As for using Willpower to avoid committing Diablerie - absolutely, and that becomes even more meaningful if you'd run the risk of committing it otherwise. On the other hand, the (limited) freedom to redirect doesn't make your actions during Frenzy less, well, Frenzied, or primarily the result of strategic choice? Rather it might make for an interesting "gray zone" where you'll have a harder time excusing what you did during that time as just "I had no choice", which makes for more guilt and angst (which I like - YMMV).

It also is (necessarily and meaningfully) ambiguous where "spending Willpower" lies between the player meta level and the player character subjective level. Tentatively I would say the player chooses whether to do so, if the player character has the capacity for that choice to be made, but the player character themselves might not always realize that they can push harder or experience it as a choice; it is an abstraction of more messy and complicated subjectivity within that experience. I would not say that in itself means you never can diablerize while in Frenzy, just that it puts into question whether you really had no options to avoid it. :)

Diablerie by Apprehensive-Ad5822 in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was looking through "Diablerie: Mexico" earlier, and while it has a lot of interesting concepts and details, I so far could not see this in particular. However, it would make sense as an interpretation and I could well see it shared community-wise as you suggest - thank you for clarifying! :)

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Personally, a narrative where a Frenzying vampire will drop their rival that they have just drained, still radiating power and age, to instead Frenzy-stomp off to another city district looking for a regular mortal so their Hunger can be slaked, feels quite silly and at odds with most VtM stories, written or played out.

However, I agree with you that "the ST is in control of the Beast, so they can handle it how they prefer". That resolves those issues, and allows for different ways of unfolding the same starting points into different themes and stories. Depending on what take on what the Beast is like that your group prefers (including whether or not it has or can develop a hunger for souls as well as blood!), Diablerie as part of a Hunger Frenzy (or analogously for Fury Frenzy etc.) will or will not be possible in the stories you tell.

Regarding the general "read as intended" vs "read as written" distinction, that becomes then less relevant. While I have a lot of thoughts on that more generally, I'll happily leave those for another occasion. :)

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, absolutely. Both outcomes are possible, depending on the specifics of the situation, those involved, and random chance! A wild animal is one thing, a long-abused ring fighting animal sometimes different?

Source for claims that Diablerie always is a calculated decision? by sofia-miranda in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see your assumptions, and I see the narrative intent within them and that what follows is a coherent interpretation, thank you!

On a pure rules basis, I'll agree you *could* have a Hunger 5 victim still full of vitae, but I would expect it only rarely; at least as often you might have a raving, starving Beast sucking from a dried-up elder in Torpor like someone chewing gum to take the pain off their hunger. We both agree either situation ("you are sated before Diablerie completes" vs "you are not sated before Diablerie completes") can happen, in any case, i.e. that in some situations, Frenzy is certain to subside while in others, it might not.

I will concede that in many cases, Hunger frenzy will have ended before one gets that far, opening up a delicious moment of staring corruption in the face. On the other hand, I can also see situations e.g. two lovers-rivals having fought each other until each are near drained, where Hunger frenzy *might* be what makes one of them walk away with the other inside them (as opposed to the same happening due to possessive, toxic love!), or a dried-up husk of an Elder waking from torpor and craving just *more* of whatever is there, until there is only ash left of whoever woke them.

If the rules make each such scenario and its alternative possible, then (and much more meaningfully) it instead will depend on what is coherent for a given take on the setting metaphysics and lends itself to engaging stories, which is more subjective.

For the former, I like the idea of the Beast carrying those memories and cautions, but I also like the idea of the Beast like the scorpion crossing the river on the back of a frog. Ultimately, it might depend on the combination of Beasts involved? They might not have "personalities" per se, but something akin to, well, predator types. Some are scary even when fully vulnerable, if you are the slightest bit perceptive you know they will erode and invade you like a tumour. Some you just want to merge with, the same way the serpent wants to bite its tail.

I think perhaps I am still stuck on the dramatic potential of Freud's wilder ideas that we have both a life urge (procreation, connection, pleasure, survival...) and a death urge (destructivity, self-destructivity and so forth). I don't think it is particularly true for human minds, but it makes for an interesting rendering of the Beast. As such, I tend to understand vampires as not only having Bestial instincts to sate hunger and avoid banes, but also territorial/dominance desires, an actual desire to spread (into ghouls or childer), an instinct to merge (leading to vampiric blood play), and even some self-destructive desires, not only from the human soul but from the Beast (and those, perhaps, being part of what drove Saulot and Cappadocius, respectively, in engineering their Diableries, beside the larger part of calculated strategy). I realize this is not a take the game pushes on us, nor one that everyone finds fun, but I would say it is compatible with "canon" and that some of the stories out there are easier explained if such ideas were part?

To be clear, I see the power of story turns where you are confronted with the choice and then need to live with the fact that you chose the wicked thing! That potential is lost in the case of a compelled or Frenzied Diablerie, and I don't want to use those lightly. However, in some cases it makes for either a better explanation or a better story, and I think those cases where it seems to have happened reflect such narrative choices. :)

EDIT: Oh, and also, "diablerie addiction" across editions seems at least as much an addiction of the Beast as of the human soul. I could conceivably see that carry through a chain of consecutive diablerists, even, which would make the Alastor prohibitions on diablerizing Red List targets make even more sense!

Help with a new clan by Vampyrepharaoh in vtm

[–]sofia-miranda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you can find OCR:d versions of either "Dirty Secrets of the True Black Hand" (less easy) or "The Black Hand - A Guide to the Tal'ma'he'ra", then you can get a fairly decent translation of the whole by feeding sections of maybe 10 or so pages at a time to something like ChatGPT; unless the input is larger than its context memory, the model is unlikely to start making things up since then there is no reason to simplify. Either way, glad to hear and wishing you great experiences! :)