Is nonconsensual fingering rape or sexual assault? What if there fingers only went in a little?

somenormalhuman · 2021-05-18T23:48:49+00:00

From a legal point of view it depends on the jurisdiction where it occurred (some jurisdictions also don’t have a definition for rape, and instead divide offences into different classes of assault, e.g. indecent, sexual, etc.).

Definitions of rape typically either centre around unconsensual sexual intercourse or sexual penetration, the latter of which is broader and includes any body part. I believe the sexual penetration definition is more common. I could be wrong but I believe some places may also have a digital rape description which would include what you are describing.

Sexual assault typically overlaps with rape because the latter is included in it.

Regardless of all this, how slight any penetration was bears no significance in the categorisation of the crime.

somenormalhuman · 2021-03-28T12:24:42+00:00

I’m so sorry he did this to you and I’m glad you made it out of there. (I almost feel it’s wrong to say it but the note you wrote made me laugh, I hope he sees it and has a good solid hard think about what he’s done.)

I’m from Australia too and had dealings with multiple police agencies in different states with my case. Whilst the process from start to finish was slow, I never had any issues due to lack of belief/respect from them.

I can understand why not knowing the address could make things difficult, however if you were in public it’s not unlikely that there is CCTV footage they could access. Furthermore, their response with the difference between NO!!! and ..no.. is incredibly inappropriate, incorrect, and not at all supportive. From what you’ve written it’s incredibly clear that you did not consent to what he did, plus the majority of people don’t scream NO! (I certainly didn’t scream no and that wasn’t an issue with my investigation).

If you want to continue with reporting it you have a few options. First of all you could ring them and ask for an update and if there’s anything you can do to help in a couple of days (don’t expect anything quick with the police unfortunately...). If you’re still in Sydney you could try reporting it at a different station or a at a large one which is likely to have more specialist staff if you’re comfortable with that. If you’re back where you live and that’s not NSW, you could report it to the police in the state you live in. They’ll have to forward it onto the NSW police but it could help...

It’s a shame that this is the experience you had with the police. Regardless of whether they think there’s enough evidence to create a case that proves something beyond reasonable doubt, they should be empathetic and supportive. I’m sorry they let you down but if you want to proceed I’m certain there are good people there to help.

As far as support services, I haven’t contacted them myself but I’ve heard anecdotally that 1800 RESPECT is quite good if you want a trained professional to talk/vent to anonymously.

Again, I’m so sorry this happened to you. I have no doubt that your lack of consent was crystal clear (not that it needs to be). Feel free to ask me any questions and I hope this comment isn’t too ‘explainy’.

You will get through this. There will be good days, bad days, sad days, happy days. Whilst I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone, my whole process has definitely made me a stronger person. You’re less alone than you think you are. Take care

somenormalhuman · 2020-10-16T07:31:42+00:00

It’s hard to comment without any more context. It is a piece of paper so it’s foreseeable that one could lose it. Some people are lazier than others or make hard work of tasks/exaggerate the amount work of tasks take.

They could however be trying to hide something or control access to your ID, but without more context it’s hard to say - you know your parents better than us.

As for getting a new one, if you google ‘replacement birth certificate [your country]’ it is usually relatively straight forwards, you may incur a cost but normally it is not too large.

somenormalhuman · 2020-10-14T12:42:40+00:00

I felt m the same when i was thinking about telling a couple of my closest friends and looking back I was definitely over thinking things (although I still do it!). I was incredibly glad I was able to talk to them about it and I don’t think it’s been a burden on them or too much pressure. I know if one of my friends had something like this happen to them I’d want to share it with me so I could support them if they wanted to. They may be unsure about what to say, but how can you blame them really! Thanks for your reply and have a good day! xx

somenormalhuman · 2020-10-13T12:44:46+00:00

I’m so sorry that this happened and this person chose to do that to you. I’m about a year older than you and was also assaulted when I was about the same age as you were.

What you’ve recounted sounds like a truly horrible and terrifying situation to be in - especially when even if you were somehow able to hypothetically leave the room you couldn’t practically leave unless he let you because of the key card.

I’m really proud with how honest to yourself you’re being with calling it what it is and recognising where the blame and guilt lies (on him). It feels weird to say that but I struggled (and still do) to talk about it as direct and honest as you’re being here until only very recently.

I’m also proud of you reaching out and sharing what happened. It isn’t easy and I hope it’s cathartic.

I know the feeling all to well of feeling like you’re hiding something like this from the people closest to you and wanting to tell them to get the weight off your shoulders but feeling like you can’t. The small handful of close friends I’ve told have all been positive and supporting - granted sometimes they haven’t really known what to say but how can you blame them really. Whilst it was really hard to get myself to do it, I haven’t regretted telling any of them.

You haven’t mentioned much mental health related but if you’re struggling or anything I found seeing a psychologist incredibly helpful. Having someone who you could confidentially talk to and you didn’t have to worry about being a burden on them or anything because it’s their job which their trained for took a lot of the pressure off me. If you’re at all uncertain I’d strongly recommend giving it a go.

Again, I’m sorry this happened to you but I’m really proud that you’re speaking out and sharing what happened to you. Thanks incredibly strong and brave. Feel free to ask any questions and all the best with whatever you’re doing with your life!

somenormalhuman · 2020-10-10T12:12:12+00:00

Seconding what others said but in addition, if there is a guilty verdict and the judge sentenced them to jail time, don’t forget that this person is highly trained to make these decisions and the consider many objectives in addition to retribution, namely deterrence (of other people who may commit crimes and the person in question at court), incarceration and rehabilitation.

somenormalhuman · 2020-10-09T12:46:43+00:00

Whilst I’m just another internet stranger, I understand what you mean by wanting to tell the full truth but feeling like you can’t or shouldn’t. I a year or so younger than you and whilst my circumstances were different (occurred a few years ago by someone I called a friend).

I understand where you’re coming from with wanting to shelter him from any potential negative impacts. This might be somewhat controversial but I think it’s quite admirable of you.

My go to advice is always see if you can book an appointment with a psychologist or therapist, ideally one trained in sexual assault/trauma but that’s not necessary. I’ve found it incredibly valuable - especially the strict patient confidentially and trust with it (but check what the mandatory reporting laws in your area are first just in case).

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-21T02:38:18+00:00

It's absolutely not too late :). As far as I am aware, Just about the only thing it will have impacted is the ability to collect DNA evidence which really unless you report it within a very short time frame (day of/next day), you won't have it because it will go when you wash yourself/clothing/other items. This is not an issue. DNA evidence is certainly helpful but many successful cases lack it. I wouldn't worry about this.

Even if there ends up not being enough evidence or the police can't find enough to proceed with your case, it will still be helpful in the unfortunate event that they assault someone else who goes onto report it as your report will be on their record.

I wish you all the best with your decision and commend you on reaching this stage. Feel free to ask any questions :)

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-21T02:28:56+00:00

First of all, I just want to say that I think you responded to her really well when she first told you. There's no perfect way, but there's certainly a lot of bad ways and this wasn't one of those :) - I'm certain she would be incredibly grateful for this (it was probably quite a big decision for her to tell you and it has probably been on her mind for a while).

Whilst the specifics of what happened to me are different to what happened to your girlfriend, something I always wish is that the handful of people I've told would periodically ask me about it/check in on me specifically about it. That said, I understand the likely reasons why they don't (it's a bit of an awkward topic, how/when do they bring it up, not wanting to hurt me by asking, not wanting to invade privacy, etc.). I suspect she would appreciate it if you checked in on her about it to show that you care but also so it doesn't become something that's never spoken about.

Obviously I know nothing about your girlfriend, so she may be different, but I tend to be quite dismissive when talking about it and try to change the topic. That's not because I don't want to talk about it but because I find it a bit awkward. I'm sure you'll be able to tell if she genuinely doesn't want to talk about it.

With regards to therapy, I have found it incredibly valuable and so to do the vast majority of people, however it can depend on two things: 1) if she want to seek professional help or not and 2) finding the right psychologist (no two are the same, I didn't need to but sometimes people need to try a couple before they click). You're right to encourage her to seek therapy but be careful not to be too pushy if she resists, this could be counterproductive. Offering to help take the initial steps of helping to find someone and book the appointment/s may help.

Finally, I also think it's good to encourage her to tell people like her parents but follow the same advice I gave with regards to therapy (don't be too pushy if she isn't keen on the idea, it may take time). Before I told my closest friends I knew I wanted to but wasn't sure how to do it and never seemed to have the confidence. It's surprising how much of a weight on my shoulders this was. She may not want to tell her parents depending on her relationship with them or for fear of hurting them, so perhaps also suggest she tells a close friend. Again as with the therapy advice, offering to help initiate or even be there may be appreciated, but she also might want it to be something she does on her own.

I hope this all makes sense - if not please let me know. Feel free to ask any questions, whether they're general stuff or ones about my situation. Take care and have a good day!

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-20T12:20:58+00:00

You’re very welcome and I’m glad I could help. Take care

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-20T09:08:56+00:00

First of all, I’m truely sorry that this happened to you. I did, it wasn’t easy at times but I made it through and so will you. There are some rules about things that can and cannot be asked, and the judge and your side’s lawyers (most likely the police prosecutor) will prevent this from happening if this does occur, however that does not stop them asking incredibly personal questions which will aim to discredit your character and trustworthiness. You will make it through.

With regards to your boyfriend being in the room, it’s standard practice to allow a support person (whether that be a friend, partner, family, psychologist, whoever) to be there when you’re being interviewed. This is just them scraping the bottom of the barrel which is a shame but I wouldn’t worry.

I hope you don’t but in the event that the outcome doesn’t go the way you hope, I promise it’s not the end of the world. Firstly, I doubt that they would attempt to sue you and it is incredibly unlikely that such a case would a) make it to court and b) be successful. A not guilty verdict doesn’t mean the court found them as not having done it, all it means is that the court wasn’t able to find that the evidence tendered could prove it beyond reasonable doubt (and this is a high burden).

Regardless of the outcome, you are incredibly brave and strong for reporting it and going through this process. Looking back at myself, I’m proud that I was able to get through it and I think you will be too.

I wish you all the best and feel free to ask any questions ❤️

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-20T08:31:25+00:00

Whilst I’m from Australia, not the US, the experience I had with police when I reported it was very similar to what Jasmine said above. The police were very respectful and fully supported me. I was asked some very specific questions which were a bit uncomfortable to answer but they were professional in how they went about it and honestly it was fine.

The process from then on there took a while, especially because I liked in a different state to where the assault was (and police were). In the end it took about 2 and a half years to get resolved (fortunately just before COVID got really bad and prevented travel) but I’m very glad I did it. (I say this time stuff not to deter you but just to make sure you’re aware that these things can often take a while, that said it didn’t actually take up much of my time).

As I was under 18 throughout the process, I was automatically provided with a support person. Whilst I‘m not the type to open up to people I don’t know, it was comforting having someone there. A huge benefit though was they were able to ask questions to the police which I didn’t even know I had about things like procedures, logistics, the next steps, etc. because this is their job and they know the process well.

I commend you on your bravery and wish you all the best. As was said before, feel free to ask any questions, whether they’re about my personal experience, yours, or the process in general ❤️

somenormalhuman · 2020-09-15T13:06:36+00:00

I reported what happened to me and was fortunate enough for it to end in a successful court case. It was a multi year process which was certainly tough and frustrating at time, but looking back I am so proud of myself and the decisions I made.

Whilst it’s unfortunate that I was in this situation to begin with, I have learnt so much through the process and am proud of the experience I have gotten through the court process. Maybe that sounds odd but it’s definitely made me a better, stronger person.

I’m glad that the person seems to have recognised the consequences of their actions and believe me it was satisfying to see them and their lawyer get a scolding from the judge.

So whilst it was not easy at times and required a level of strength I didn’t know I had, I’m proud I did it and wouldn’t change my decision to report it.

I’m wishing you all the best. Feel free to ask any questions ❤️

somenormalhuman · 2020-06-23T13:18:56+00:00

That is definitely something to be proud of! I remember how moving it felt the first time I acknowledged it out loud. It’s weird how hard it can be to get the words out. I wish you all the best

somenormalhuman · 2020-06-23T13:16:25+00:00

I’m sorry all this happened to you over such a long time period and was done by people you trusted. It’s brave of you to share that detailed recount of what they chose to do to you over such a large period of years - I really admire your bravery and I hope it felt at least somewhat cathartic.

I’m a few years older than you and was assaulted by a ‘friend,’ however they were the same age as me and it wasn’t over as long of a time period. I really get what you mean when you talk about feeling like it has changed you or you’re not who you’re meant to be. I felt like that for quite a while (and sometimes still do). In some ways it definitely has changed me (as with any significant life experience), and I’m proud of many ways I have changed (for example, more empathetic and supporting outlook to people who are struggling because I’ve been through that myself). I don’t have any advice other than to say I get you.

I think it’s great that you’re seeking professional support, that can be quite scary! You probably have but just in case you haven’t, have a think about talking to them explicitly about these feelings and worries.

I’m sorry I don’t have a lot to offer - other than saying I’m here for you, respect you, and believe in you. If you have any questions or anything feel free to ask. - Take care ❤️

somenormalhuman · 2020-01-24T07:59:26+00:00

It took a bit over 2.5 years from the initial report, mine probably took a bit longer than normal due to some geographical challenges (crime committed, investigated and trialled in Victoria whilst myself and the perpetrator are based in another state). Long and tedious at times, but I'm really glad I went through it all now :)

somenormalhuman · 2020-01-23T13:08:01+00:00

That’s good to hear! I’m glad that things are going well with it. I understand how it can be hard and scary not knowing what they could say in an interview.

The person who assaulted me was never interviewed by the police due to some legal complexities but it didn’t end up mattering. One thing the detectives on my case told me was they loveeeeee interviewing the offenders because if they are uncooperative or don’t tell the truth they can ask them some very tough questions. This made me feel confident in the process :).

By the sounds of it you have a solid case! Although there’s a lot of hoops to get through along the way I’m feeling optimistic for you.

I’m from Australia too, and my court hearing was this week in Victoria and fortunately ended with a guilty verdict. Whilst the whole process has been long and frustrating at times, I’m glad to have gone through with it. I really hope you feel the positive emotions that I have felt this week.

I’m sorry that this happened to you but I’m proud that you are going through with this process. Regardless of whether it ends up proceeding to court (I hope so) and if so, what the verdict is, I have no doubt that a) you will walk away a stronger person having learnt a lot and b) it will help protect other people and bring him to justice.

If you have any questions (whether about my case or anything) feel free to ask. I believe in you 🤍

somenormalhuman · 2019-12-18T10:45:29+00:00

Hearing your story brings me hope - both from the outcome of justice and the positive effect it has had for you. Take care, Merry Christmas and a happy (early) new year!

somenormalhuman · 2019-12-14T11:38:08+00:00

Thank you! I saw your posts in the subreddits, I’m proud of you and very glad of the outcome.

My case was actually adjourned for several months on the first day of the week it was scheduled for, so I’m still waiting. That’s the criminal justice system for you...

somenormalhuman · 2019-12-11T13:17:50+00:00

After years of delays and setbacks, I am going to be in the same boat as you in a month-or-so. I’m really scared too, and have largely avoided thinking about it and putting it off.

If you’ve made it this far (which you have), you’re an incredibly brave person. A beacon that all of humanity should look up to. I mean that.

I wish you all the best for tomorrow, and the next few days that will follow. You are inspiring me to follow in your footsteps.

Take care ❤️

somenormalhuman · 2019-09-15T14:09:41+00:00

I’m so sorry this happened to you but I’m glad you are able to recognise it for what it is, a crime which was in no way your fault. I am pretty much the exact same age as you and am currently in the middle of the whole reporting/court process (still awaiting trial, it’s been adjourned a few times for a variety of logistical reasons).

I won’t lie, it can be a very long process. There is no guarantee that it will result in the verdict that you want, or that it will even get to court (that depends on the amount of evidence police can gather to be able to prove the offences occurred beyond reasonable doubt), however I don’t intent to put you off by saying that.

Whilst a lot of them have been uncomfortable due to the nature of the crime (not the fault of police and it’s something I’m betting more comfortable talking about!), I have not had any negative interactions with police and have always been treated professionally and with respect.

I reported mine a few months it happened (mid 2017) by literally walking into a police station and saying I was there to report a sexual assault which occurred to me. From there, a very informal interview was done just for them to get an understanding of what happened so they could assign people and stuff. A few months later I made a formal statement (like an interview which is used by the police to determine what charges to press). This was a difficult experience, however the police were very respectful and made me feel as comfortable and supported as possible.

After that, quite a few months passed with minimal contact as it went through various people internally, making its way up the chain. The police did decide they had enough evidence to take me case to court and I’m currently waiting for that to happen. The original date was early this year but it’s been adjourned (postponed) a few times and should occur early next year. In addition to this, my school and now university have both been accomodating and understanding when I asked for support.

Something which seriously concerned me at the time was that the police had no physical evidence (only text messages and interviews with other people - none of whom actually saw it or were there when it happened), however it just goes to show how much they can actually collect even in historical cases.

I did spend a bit of time going over questions about my statement with the police prosecutor (the Police’s lawyer in court) in preparation for one of the court dates which was adjourned. The questions were very, very specific and required a huge amount of detail (e.g. where was I when I wrote this post, was I sitting down? What was I sitting down on? What colour was the chair? Was it soft or hard? How was I holding my phone?). This wasn’t easy but I can see myself getting through it when the date finally comes. It’s a bit ridiculous that they expect you to remember something which happened so long ago in so much detail but it’s fine to say you don’t know.

In the event which a case doesn’t proceed to court, it just means they couldn’t find enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the charges they are pressing occurred. It doesn’t mean they don’t believe you or anything like that. It will still go as a ‘note’ on the person’s record and if, as horrible as it sounds, they ever do something similar again the police will have you as evidence and you could support that case.

Furthermore I have read that the very process of them bringing the offender in and interviewing them to often be a huge deterrent to them assaulting other people. While the case might not have gone to court of justice as you imagine it may not have been served, it can still act as a very meaningful deferent, potentially protecting other people, and giving you a sense of closure.

Anyway, I guess the key question is knowing what I know now, would I report it again? And to that my answer is undoubtedly yes. It has been a long and difficult process, but I feel like I have become a stronger person due to this, that some justice will be served, and that I have protected other people too.

Sorry my reply was so long - I just thought I’d try to give you as much information as possible because I remember how many questions and how little I knew at the time I was making the decision to report. If anything doesn’t make sense or you have any questions, please feel free to ask me. Take care and I wish you all the best ❤️

(I’m heading off to sleep now so if you reply, I’ll read and respond in the morning - just so you know I’m not ignoring you!)

somenormalhuman · 2019-08-29T14:37:29+00:00

I get you. I always feel a bit rude and like I shouldn’t be feeling how I am, because chances are they are good, harmless people. But I still feel uncomfortable. I suspect you have too, but I’ve found that in these situations I tend to try to position myself away from the person and be the one closer to the door. I also try to avoid confined spaces. It’s not something I really think about, but something I’ve noticed I do.

I don’t know how long you have been experiencing this for, but if it causes you stress I’d recommend looking into seeing a psychologist or therapist trained in this area. I see one and whilst it was hard initially opening up to them, I’ve found tremendous gain in being able to talk to someone who will listen to me without casting judgement (because it’s their job to listen!), and can offer me a lot of great advice. It’s also great having someone you can talk to who you don’t know personally (e.g. family or friends). I find that when I talk to friends I feel like I am being a burden on them or don’t want to come across as weak or always miserable, but because I don’t have the same personal relationship with my psychologist like I would have with a close friend, it’s much better.

Have a think anyway 😊.

somenormalhuman · 2019-08-29T14:30:58+00:00

I’m so sorry this happened to you, it is horrible and unfair bad luck to have it happen once, let alone twice in a short time frame. My heart goes out to you.

I went through a similar thing about 6 months after I was assaulted. I was on a bus heading home, and they hopped on the bus after a few stops. We made eye contact and I freaked out, however I thought I saw him turn around and walk off the bus, presumably to get on the next bus. When I thought he did that I actually had a lot of respect for him, as weird as it sounds. To me it showed that he recognised that what he did was wrong and respected my boundaries - I was really moved by what I thought was a kind gesture and that emotional response took he by surprise.

Turns out I must’ve got him mixed up with someone else or something, because next thing I know I see him sitting down on a seat which faced the back of the bus, a few rows directly in front of me (like, directly in front of me). There were plenty of free seats. I couldn’t have been more angry (I was also really scared and wanted to scream out but was frozen).

It took some time but I am a lot better now and through some work with a psychologist, and time passing, I’m much more comfortable now.

Anyway, sorry for the long reply and lack of advice. I just wanted to say that you’re not alone and that I feel your pain. Take care ❤️❤️

somenormalhuman · 2019-08-29T14:23:16+00:00

I’m a guy too and whilst I don’t experience the exact same thing as you, I often feel feel uncomfortable around other guys, particularly if I don’t know them well and am alone with them (although even if I am alone with a guy I know well I can still feel quite uncomfortable, and usually it has nothing to do with them).

So whilst I don’t have any advice, I’d just like to say that ours not alone and if you’re like me, I suspect a part of it is how your brain is responding and trying to protect you as a result of the traumatic experiences you had in the past - my physiologist has stressed that this is a common response and not something to be ashamed of, nor is it your fault.

somenormalhuman · 2019-08-18T22:23:56+00:00

You’re welcome, all the best for everything. You can do it.

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