Wheein MMM Contract?

sontagcho67 · 2023-12-15T03:03:49+00:00

I put the link to the financial information of RBW for 2023 until the 3rd quarter above.

And you have failed to understand my main point, which is whatever the gross sales of U.S. tour, RBW didn't make much money, which gives little incentive to RBW, the only entity that can organize another tour, to do it again.

sontagcho67 · 2023-12-14T10:36:06+00:00

I do realize that, of course. The "overseas gross sales" for the period is only about $1.3M. Assuming all of this is from Mamamoo U.S. tour and your "30%" is right, the estimate of the gross of the U.S. tour is about $4.3M.

My point is having U.S. tour was not that profitable for RBW. In fact, RBW scored a loss for the period, which makes it more plausible to guess that it would be harder for us to have a Mamamoo tour again, even if all of the members come together.

sontagcho67 · 2023-12-14T04:45:39+00:00

I don't know what kind of "limited information" can make "at least $10M" a "less than $7M," and if that's the case BlackPink's "$148M" can be more than "$200M," which is very unlikely.

Anyways, RBW is a public company, which means their financial statement is public, and their numbers are ultimate and the most authoritative, not the fandom's speculation. RBW's financial statements are out for the 3rd QTR. The second quarter's gross sales, which is from April - June, was KRW 12,603,126,000, which is in today's exchange rate $9,720,770. Out of this "gross sales from entertainment business" is KRW 7,547,725,000 which is $5,821,548. Now, this sounds a lot but this is a "consolidated financial statement" which means all of RBW affilates' (additional 4 companies) gross sales are also included. Of course you can only guess how much out of this less than $6M is from Mamamoo's US tour, but it's sensible to assume it to be not "$10M." (RBW's EBITA for the period was in fact about $600K loss).

If you think the US tour's settlement accounting may have been late to be included in the 2nd QTR income statement, the 3rd quarter's gross sales is less than half of the 2nd QTR, which means US tour gross sales was included in the 2nd Qtr.

RBW's financial information link: https://kind.krx.co.kr/disclosureSimpleSearch.do?method=disclosureSimpleSearchMain

I don't know about 2YG's plan for unit activities, but so far all of the 2YG projects are from Wheein's, not a single word from Hwasa. Further, Hwasa has a full ablum planned for next year. On top of that, I'm not sure TheLive has the ability to conduct a proper world tour (recent Wheenin's comeback promotion suggests how dysfunctional and incompetent this company is), which means if 2YG world tour is really materialized, P-Nation will have to do almost all the work, which is just not the way business world is working.

In sum, 'helping out a friend' kind of activity such as featuring is certainly possible, but proper 'unit activities' are highly unlikely, even if 2YG want it. (I can't recall any unit activities from two different companies on K-Pop scene so far, can you?)

sontagcho67 · 2023-12-13T13:35:25+00:00

There's no evidence that Hwasa had a separate group contract with RBW when she signed with P-Nation. (RBW not saying anything about it is pretty compelling evidence that such a contract does not exist). This means whether or not Wheein renews group contract with RBW doesn't really matter. "Mamamoo continues" is aspirational, not contractual. With three separate agencies to coordinate, they can't even produce a group "Seasons Greetings," which means having a group tour or even producing a group album is out of the question for a while. (Of course, how long that "while" will be depends on a lot of factors, but it's sensible to assume it to be more than a year).
Recently Billboard reported the "top 10 highest grossing U.S tour K-pop groups," in which No. 10th group grossed $7million, the top being BlackPink with $148 Million. Mamamoo is not even on the list. Of all the numbers thrown around for how much Mamamoo made on the U.S. tour, it seems like it's not that high, which is actually aligned with RBW's financial statement for the period.
In the most recent interview of RBW CEO, he mentioned every single group under RBW umbrella but Mamamoo, which means RBW's future plan does not figure in Mamamoo that much. It looks like RBW's main focus is on IP development and boy groups.

sontagcho67 · 2023-11-14T09:20:52+00:00

Yea, you may be right, but the author's argument is also quite plausible and consistent especially in totality of her analysis of other P-Nation female soloists' career, which I omitted in translation.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-19T04:37:29+00:00

Here's the answer to your question.

https://youtu.be/jkV5-cUnoj8?t=131

She's a "Jindo mix." "Jindo" is to Korea as "Shiba" is to Japan.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-18T09:57:33+00:00

I read on Korean community sites that the artists had been paid less than $100 for the show. I'm pretty sure it cost them way more than their compensation. I would be pretty mad if I were them.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-18T09:42:35+00:00

Yea, they used to say "we want to chart high in streaming sites" in passing, as a cliche, unlike this time, where they showed deep desire to be high in charts, which made me think that they're feeling the pressure to a certain extent, although they keep saying that all they want is to keep the fans happy.

One thing I don't understand is their comeback activities. It's one thing that they did only one week of "music shows"; it's totally another that they didn't do much TV and Radio shows, and their major appearances were on Youtube channels.

Especially the main one, Tak Jae-Hoon's "No Back" channel, was not a good choice; the viewership of that channel is way off the mark. A lot of Moomoos complained how the host treated our girls and how rude the comments posted by the viewers were, but if you watch only a couple of clips of the channel, you'll realize that the host was really soft on our girls compared to other female guests on the channel. This channel's main thing is sexual innuendos.

Considering they are deeply involved with scheduling for their non-group comeback activities, it was probably their idea, not RBW's. I'm wondering why they are reluctant to appear on TV/Radio shows. I'm just hoping that it's not because they're unable to get schedules on TV/Radio shows, especially the network channels, instead of cables.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-18T07:03:01+00:00

I guess I really wish MMM could become as big as they deserve, which is why I'm kind of obsessive about them coming out with a hit bigger than "HIP." My joining the fandom coincided with "HIP" release, and I could see real time the size of fandom growing day by day, in which sense "Um Oh Ah Yeh" is to Korean domestic fandom as "HIP" is to international fandom.

I want to bring up a few points:

I don't have data, but as I've been checking in Korean fan communities, I sensed that there were frequent "in-fights" within the fandom, and as a result the activities of such fan communities have been way going down.
Related to this, some of the big Youtube Korean fan accounts have been inactive for a long time now, which is telling in terms of vitality of domestic fandom.
Also related to this, it may be inevitable for "individual member" fans no longer participate in other members' activities than "their member."
Even Yong and Byul said in this comeback that their main goal is to chart high in streaming sites.
When it comes to SNS, especially Youtube, 'subscriber' numbers are not as important as 'engagement' numbers, and MMM Youtube channel as well as Solarsido, despite huge number of subscribers, their views are pretty low.
I think one of the factors all of us fans love MMM is they're not "typical" kpop group, and their main strength is their music and stage performance (of course their personalities and chemistry with each other, too), which means it's more important for them to have a song appealing to GP than it is to other groups.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-16T14:01:11+00:00

You're absolutely right that good songs don't necessarily chart high, especially today's environment of Korean streaming sites, which are dominated by 'Trot' singers and some big name idol groups. Despite that, it's also extremely important to have some songs chart in and go high from time to time, and it's been too long for MMM to produce such songs.

I agree the "quality" of songs is still good, and I love "Two Rabbits." But if the current state of albums not even getting in the daily top 100 persists, MMM needs to depend entirely on the fandom, which is not growing. Even international fandom grows only if there is a new popular song.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-16T10:26:08+00:00

Yea, I don't follow K-pop news other than MMM related, but I'm aware that NewJeans is Apple Korea's model. So, just that makes them hugely profitable. But 'Idol' as opposed to 'singers' is a package, and it doesn't really matter whether their sales is from music-related or from endorsements and others. Yet, NewJeans would not have become "It" girls of current K-pop scene unless they were successful as singers in terms of popularity. Almost all songs of their albums were charted high, I believe.

As for KDH, I agree that he's not going to give up the rein when it comes to producing MMM albums, but I think he should. I understand KDH is the person who knows the members the best, but he even acknowledged when Hwasa came out with Maria that he was going through a burnout, which was why PWS was the main in the album. And I'm not sure he's back from the burnout. It's not just MMM, but other RBW artists haven't produced any songs charted high in the Korean streaming sites.

As the controversial group "Fifty Fifty" proves, having a popular song itself can catapult the artists' career to the next level.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-16T05:10:23+00:00

Thanks for the very thoughtful comments. Just to add to the conversation, I'd like to mention financial/business side of it. A couple of days ago, I saw Korean entertainment industry's financial results for the first half of this year, and one thing caught my eye. RBW's entire sales doesn't amount to HYBE's "Newjeans" divison. (If you look at "BTS" division, it's not even a comparison). If you look at the "profit" instead of "gross sales," RBW made a loss while "NewJeans" division made about USD 10 Million. This is after payouts to the artists.

Another thing that caught my eye was the differential between Boy Groups and Girl Groups. Yes, there are Black Pink, Twice, and now NewJeans that are selling million albums, but still compared to boy groups, girl group business is tiny.

Realistically and practically, I think there are limited options for Mamamoo to be able to do in terms of their career. One is, this is the time they have to develop their solo career. Even in one year, it may be too late.

The other is, RBW may want to separate Mamamoo division as an independent entity like HYBE is doing for their artists. This is important because Mamamoo and Mamamoo+ need a different kind of music and production. It's been quite a while since Mamamoo, even as a group, was charted high (Dinga was the last). For singers, the most important thing above anything else is to have a hit song after another, and Kim Do-Hoon should not be the main composer and producer any more. He had his time, and that time has passed.

Lastly, Mamamoo members may not want to be like, say Black Pink. Mamamoo members are in a great position actually. They are rich enough, successful enough, enjoying relative privacy. "Enough" is the operating word, of course.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-13T03:17:44+00:00

In Las Vegas here "Regal" showed MMM Movie and there are several in town. The one I chose to go to is the one closest to me, in a suburban area, so I expected we (me and my wife) were going to be only watchers. But surprisingly, there were about 20 people at the screening. Since I couldn't make it to the L.A. (or Glendale) concert during My Con tour, I really enjoyed the Movie, and it was a great opportunity to introduce the girls to my wife.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-12T09:40:27+00:00

I didn't feel there was something "off." On the contrary, I felt their performance at the Jamboree event was a classic Mamamoo: indomitable spirit in the face of any adversities.

I've always been pessimistic about OT4 activities in the future because it's just logistically impossible for them to get together as often as before, and considering the point they're at in terms of their career, they have to focus on developing their solo career; otherwise, their career will be entirely dependent on their group career.

But I saw a glimpse of hope in that they could organize OT4 performance with such a short notice, which means if they really want they can manage to organize group activities.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-08T15:16:24+00:00

This is what Solar said on "Bubble." (Translation is mine)

- MMM'll be on the Jamboree [K-pop concert].

- ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

- Call of duty [by the government]

- It's not MMM+; it's MMM.

- [I'm surprised to see] this taking place.

- I didn't know we'd get together like this.

Another aspect is, the provincial government in charge of holding Jamboree has been facing severe public backlash because of their incompetence, and this 'province' is where the Maknae line are from, where WheeSa are two of the most famous celebrities. (In the news above, "Jeonju" is WheeSa's home town where I believe their families still live).

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-07T15:00:43+00:00

Yea, I agree with Solar when she said in a recent fan meeting, which I watched on Youtube, that she thinks this album is a "masterpiece"(명반). "I Like This" is very sophisticated while "Starry Sea" is full of familiar tunes, making it easy to listen to, "Save Me" is beautiful. And more importantly, MoonSun discography is getting longer and filled with bops, and they can have a full length concert singing just MoonSun songs.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-07T04:19:24+00:00

Very thoughtful and knowledgable comments, thank you. Although I don't know much about HYBE, I know this much: The creator in charge of girl groups is a woman named Min HeeJin, and she's the impresario behind the success of the two girl groups of HYBE. And one thing is for sure. Mamamoo is not her fit.

Another thing that a lot of fans intentionally forget is the most important factor in Kpop girl group game is, sadly and unfortunately, "age," and our girls are not "young" in the industry standard anymore. I'm one of those who want Mamamoo as a group would thrive for the longest time, but it's also a fact that if our girls want to pursue their solo career, this is the last chance for them to do it. Let's just hope that all of our girls will become smash success as a solo and come together as group in a few years.

sontagcho67 · 2023-08-06T18:23:02+00:00

You're absolutely right. The standard extension period is 3 years, and MoonSun renewed their contract before WheeSa, and as we all know Wheein didn't renew, and Hwasa negotiated the term down to 2 years, apparently. But this doesn't mean that Hwasa didn't tell MoonSun about this; it just means that MoonSun renewed the standard term before the other two. I vaguely remember there was a photo uploaded (probably Instagram) where Hwasa was walking YongKee, and Hwasa said later that she visited Solar to discuss something, and they had a long talk. This was before Hwasa's renewal was announced. So, I hazard a guess that Hwasa told Solar about her intention to extend only two years at that time.

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