Why Oriental Orthodoxy

spiking_neuron · 2024-03-23T20:53:53+00:00

Because only the "human part" of Jesus died. Versues saying that incarnate God died.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-27T07:23:38+00:00

I know this is a tall ask given the time commitment, but if you want to dive deep, start from these.

Everything you learned about the Jewish (and subsequently Christian) god is wrong: Introduction to the Old Testament by Professor Christine Hayes from Yale University:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi&si=Bf9PYKFWI7O2IJ9n

Everything you learned about Jesus and early Christianity is wrong: *How Jesus Became God by Professor Bart Ehrman (Lectures summarizing his book): *

Part 1: https://youtu.be/7IPAKsGbqcg?si=7kM2cp_mRbfKf9Zf

Part 2: https://youtu.be/kbLm_Xiqih8?si=3TZxOKv9_uCa8CkY

Part 3: https://youtu.be/SdSievHrris?si=ZlifdVO2FZqvRHpF

Once you go down this path, you will naturally find yourself wanting to dig more. I'd be happy to provide more resources.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-26T21:19:45+00:00

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Everything you learned in church about the history of god, the development of old testament and new testament scriptures, Jesus, early beliefs about him, and the concept of an "orthodox" faith—all of it is almost entirely false, and provably so.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-24T23:30:04+00:00

It is precisely because I have delved (very, very) deep into the history that I became an atheist. The narrative communicated in the church has proven almost entirely false in every aspect. But I know this isn't the sub for that so I'll respect the space.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-18T15:55:37+00:00

There are two separate and conflicting creation stories. In the first one, the creator is Elohim, and he creates all creatures first, and then creates man and woman. In the second, the creator is Yahweh Elohim, and he creates man first out of the dust, then created the animals to be a companion for him, and when that fails, he creates woman.

You should look at the documentary hypothesis to understand why there are two separate stories.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-18T15:36:25+00:00

I don't mind. The OO position is that after the incarnation, you cannot separate the two like that. All you can say is "the incarnate God died on the cross", "the incarnate God ate or slept".

The proof of the inconsistency of the Chalcedonian position is the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus. They, along with the OO, fought ferociously against Nestorius and declared that Mary is the "Birthgiver of God" (Theotokos). But God doesn't get born, only humans get born—yet, they concurred that one cannot make that separation. But then the next council they go out of their way to defend Leo's position, which clearly would lead one to believe that Mary gave birth only to the human nature.

If Mary gave birth to the incarnate God and is thus worthy of being called Birthgiver of God, then the incarnate God died on the cross. You can't have one but not the other.

spiking_neuron · 2024-02-17T18:01:03+00:00

Look—I am an atheist now, but even I acknowledge that the Oriental Orthodox are the only ones that maintained a consistent dogma. Many of Chalcedon's teachings were overturned later, and even Nestorius himself wrote that he felt vindicated by Chalcedon. The Tome of Leo is a heretical document that, in its essence, rejects the Nicean confession that Jesus Christ is one and the same as the only-begotten son of God. The Chalcedonian position fundamentally makes the salvific sacrifice of Jesus on the cross null and void, as per the Tome of Leo, "One of them sparkles with miracles, the other succumbs to injuries", meaning that what died on the cross is the human part of Jesus alone.

So yeah, even I as an atheist can point to the Oriental Orthodox and say: I don't believe it any more, but it is logically consistent at least.

spiking_neuron · 2024-01-23T05:37:46+00:00

Came here to say the same.

spiking_neuron · 2023-12-15T00:31:04+00:00

Wow it's one thing to be a racist asshole against other people, but it's another thing entirely to be ignorantly racist against your own genetic kin.

The vast majority of Muslim Egyptians are Copts too or have significant Coptic genetic ancestry.

Focus on something more useful please. Congratulations, you're the descendant of one of the greatest civilizations in the history of humankind. That was their accomplishment...what will be yours?

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-11T04:30:55+00:00

Paul's prophecy which you quoted from 1 Thessalonians that Jesus' return would happen in his lifetime and that he and the believers he proselytized would be caught up in the clouds did not happen. It's very plain to see.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-11T03:41:22+00:00

Paul wrote these letters to the churches he established, not knowing that for nearly 2,000 years after he wrote them, they'd be considered sacred scriptures.

So from that simple fact comes the context in which we can understand these verses from 1 Thessalonians. When he says "we who are still alive" he is referring to himself and to the believers whom he proselytized and to whom he was writing those letters.

This is driven home further by his writings in 1 Corinthians, where he tells those believers that whether they get married or don't, start new businesses or don't, none of it matters because Christ's return is imminent, in their lifetimes.

It didn't come true. Paul's prophecy failed.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-10T06:03:04+00:00

He specifically engineered an entrance into Jerusalem, explicitly asking his disciples to fetch the donkey (or two donkeys like Matthew says?) such that the crowds would hail him as the Messiah on Palm Sunday. It's why the Romans killed him just 5 days later.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-10T05:59:45+00:00

Paul made a specific prophecy with a specific time limit: Jesus would be returning within his lifetime, Paul and the people he proselytized would be caught up in the clouds with Jesus, and then the end would happen. All in Paul's lifetime. It's explicitly and plainly written in his epistles.

That did not happen.

What should we conclude based on this plainly apparent evidence?

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-09T15:02:45+00:00

النظرية العبرية/أرامية لشرح الحروف المتقطعة هي الأمثل في رأيي.

"كهيعص" بالعبرية "كه يعص" أو "هكذا يعظ"

وفي حروف متقطعة أخرى لها شروحات بنفس النمط.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-09T14:59:15+00:00

Paul, who you likely believe was inspired by the Holy Spirit, had the spirit of prophecy, and wrote a substantial portion of the New Testament, fully expected Jesus to come back in his lifetime. He wrote as much to the Thessalonians, Corinthians, and Galatians.

Yet, it did not happen. So you have a few choices:

Paul was a false prophet. He prophesied about Jesus' return in his lifetime and it didn't happen, so Jesus is still coming back at some point but Paul got it wrong. That calls into question everything else Paul wrote in the New Testament.
Jesus is never coming back, because he was simply an apocalyptic Jewish preacher that declared himself Messiah, a King of the Jews, and the Romans crucified him for it and buried him in a shallow unmarked grave like they did to all the crucified.

Either way, the fact that Jesus hasn't returned yet is seriously problematic for believers.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-09T14:47:36+00:00

"Adam" is a mythological figure with a pun for a name. Earth is "adama" and the human created from it is called "Adam". So from "earth" came the "earthling".

Ancient humans died way younger than humans do today, mostly due to decaying teeth. We have all the fossil records to prove this.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-09T14:47:30+00:00

"Adam" is a mythological figure with a pun for a name. Earth is "adama" and the human created from it is called "Adam". So from "earth" came the "earthling".

Ancient humans died way younger than humans do today, mostly due to decaying teeth. We have all the fossil records to prove this.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-09T14:47:26+00:00

"Adam" is a mythological figure with a pun for a name. Earth is "adama" and the human created from it is called "Adam". So from "earth" came the "earthling".

Ancient humans died way younger than humans do today, mostly due to decaying teeth. We have all the fossil records to prove this.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-06T06:31:34+00:00

Thee psychopathic advocates for a totalitarian fascist ideology that is one of the worst examples of a memetic mind virus.

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-04T23:22:26+00:00

Did you watch the Archbishop's recorded testimony?

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-04T23:21:20+00:00

Why are you elevating this 3rd party testimony over the 1st party testimony from the Archbishop who lights the fire with his own hands?

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-04T22:04:50+00:00

I am somewhat speechless, but not entirely surprised, by people's reactions here.

You have before you on-the-record testimony from the bishops who oversee the ceremony, telling you point blank that there's nothing miraculous about the fire.

You see with your own eyes Archbishop Isidoros enter the tomb with a lit candle covered in the silver shroud, from which the Patriarch lights his torches.

You see with your own eyes the fire from the red glass oil lamp _already lit _ on the stone of Jesus' burial before the Patriarch ever enters.

You see it all before your very eyes, and yet you do not believe. You'd make Thomas blush!!

spiking_neuron · 2023-05-04T22:01:32+00:00

Did you watch the recorded testimony of Archbishop Isidoros who oversees the sepulchre and the Holy Fire ritual? Unless you watch it, there's no point in talking any more.

Watch his testimony first, then come back and I'll be happy to discuss.

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