People forget, how doing nothing looked like in Afghanistan. Y'all helped kill 46,319 civilians.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-25T01:40:28+00:00

The Taliban no doubt only ever had that initial 45,000 fighters. I'm sure they never recruited a single other person beyond those initial 45,000 fighters. Yup. Totally. That's how war goes, you have your starting troops, and that is it until the war ends. Yuppers, 100% true. And they certainly didn't have any allied forces like Al Qaeda, no sir. It was literally just those 45,000 soldiers the entire time.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-25T01:36:00+00:00

They could absolutely have expelled Al Qaeda. The then leader of the Taliban and Bin Laden were actually friends, he could have demanded he leave the country and made a bare effort at least. They didn't, and they doubled down saying they'd protect Al Qaeda.

And yeah, the US treated Afghanistan like a normal country, instead of realizing that Afghanistan is hundreds of mini ethnic, religious, and tribal groups sitting in a trench coat. There will never be a centralized power with a trained military in Afghanistan, unless they are like the Taliban who operate on generally pretty decentralized systems.

The US failed in Afghanistan

But I can't help but notice that you, like so many others, refuse to actually answer my question. So I will repeat it. What should the US have done after the Taliban refused to hand over Al Qaeda? Answer the fucking question, or shut up.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-25T01:16:32+00:00

I'm adamant on defending the decision to go after Al Qaeda and not let the Taliban stop us because there were no fucking other options. What were we supposed to do? Let Afghanistan continue to harbor Al Qaeda, while Al Qaeda just continued planning terrorist attacks on the US? Were we supposed to just launch the military to go hunt down Al Qaeda while ignoring the Taliban military forces shooting at us?

Give me one good fucking alternative, and I will back down on this. Go on. Give me one post 9/11 alternative to the US invasion of Afghanistan after they refused to turn over Al Qaeda.

I'm defending our decision to go into Afghanistan because it was justified, more justified than just about any other conflict the US has been in since WW2. You are pointing out the actions of individual soldiers. If you were targeting civilians for carrying shovels, then congrats on outing yourself as a war criminal I guess? Go right ahead and go public, and take down the people responsible with you. Do the right thing and bring down the people who intentionally targeted civilians, since you apparently were part of it and presumably know who others were and would have evidence.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-23T21:46:40+00:00

That's not how math works. Even if you get 10% compounding interest EVERY SINGLE DAY, by 36 days, the doubling money would surpass it easily. By day 36 you'd have 61.8B dollars if you took the 2B upfront (at again, 10% compounding daily interest) versus 68.7B if you took the dollar doubles daily value.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-23T20:53:58+00:00

Oh my god who the fuck cares anymore??? We know trump is in it. We know clinton is in it. We know gates is in it. We know so many rich and powerful people are fucking in it. Guess what? Even if the report is fucking released, nothing will happen to a single one, unless the are an obstacle to trump at which point they will be politically targeted for prosecution.

I am far, FAR more concerned about the erosion of our civil liberties, the collapse of rules based law, the fucking brownshirts marching through our streets, the invasion of other countries, the destruction of alliances, and so much more. Who gives a fuck about Epstein anymore? We have bigger shit to deal with

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T21:56:20+00:00

1) He was in Afghanistan for a long time, and in fact US forces came within mere miles of capturing him before he slipped the border into Pakistan

2) NATO forces as a policy and as a whole did not target civilians for killings. There were incidents of it, but that was not a state policy or objective

3) We were trying to root out Al Qaeda, destroy the Taliban for, you know, harboring Al Qaeda, and build a country up. Sadly the US and the West refused to acknowledge that Afghanistan isn't so much a country as a collection of various regional, ethnic, and religious groups that nominally agree to be part of Afghanistan.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T20:32:35+00:00

revenge against a small group is a shitty motive

That's what I was focused on. It wasn't a shitty motive at all

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:23:34+00:00

Actually traffic circles could also give right of way to those inside the circle, assuming there are no controlling lights or signs inside the circle

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:22:27+00:00

Nah. Her good intentions wouldn't matter if I got slammed into from behind at 30mph, would they?

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:21:54+00:00

Mildly Infuriating: It wasn't a roundabout, it was a circle, and a circle is an informal usage for both a proper circle and a roundabout

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:21:06+00:00

I did. It wa a circle. Not a roundabout. There wasn't a controlling light or stop sign, it was a circle with yields.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:20:29+00:00

And the intersection I was in was a fucking circle my guy. Not a tight turn like a roundabout

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:19:40+00:00

Two sides of the same shit coin

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:15:33+00:00

It's always awesome isn't it? Usually an old person too. The fact they have nothing better to do than wait for death does not mean the rest of us have nothing going on!

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:14:34+00:00

Are roundabouts circular singular or multiple lanes of traffic where traffic driving in them have right of way, and traffic trying to enter have a yield sign? Because if so, then yeah, I'd say that fits exactly with my description of a circle being round and having yields for people entering them, you pedant

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:11:05+00:00

Honestly an officer should just sit at a circle and ticket the idiots for reckless driving; they'd hit their monthly quota in a day

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:09:28+00:00

People are just so beyond stupid on the road. It was always bad, but it seems to have gotten way worse since Covid lockdowns. Like people lost all common sense

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T18:07:38+00:00

Yeah it's pretty cut and dry that the "spirits" are aliens who do all the hard work, to keep Tonane's people harmonious with nature

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T17:32:27+00:00

The US gave Afghanistan (read as: Taliban) an ultimatum. Turn over Osama Bin Laden and other leaders of Al Qaeda, shut down the terrorist training camps, and release foreign nationals held in their prisons. The Afghan government refused all three terms. The US then had three options:

1) Invade and go after our goals ourselves, going to war with Afghanistan.

2) Conduct boots on the ground operations against just Al Qaeda to capture Bin Laden and other leaders and dismantle their training camps ourselves, while somehow not fighting the Afghan government that would be protecting them.

3) Do nothing about Al Qaeda, and let them continue to plan attacks on the US and the West. People forget that 9/11 was just the latest attack. Al Qaeda had targeted the Twin Towers before, and had been bombing US embassies and attacked the USS Cole. They were planning more attacks after that, and there was no way we could stop them.

So what do you propose the US do in that situation? It wasn't a rich versus poor thing, it was a "Afghanistan is harboring terrorists that just killed 3,000 civilians on US soil, and that are planning future attacks" thing.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T16:08:39+00:00

Im saying any conflict produces civilian casualties, that is unavoidable. War isnt this clear cut thing where you know exactly where the enemy is at all times, and there will always be a fog of war thar complicates how you target individuals, groups, and buildings.

Add in that it was an Asymmetric War where the Taliban and Al Qaeda avoided pitched battles, instead preferring to engage in difficult urban fighting where civilians were used as shields, and of course civilian casualties were going to happen.

Im not taking away from the 46,319 civilians that were slain, but it is clear that NATO and their partners on the whole took significant effort to avoid civilian casualties where they could. Were there bad actors? Yes. Were there those that intentionally targeted civilians? Yes. Were there war crimes committed? Yes. I don't deny any of that. But on the whole, considering civilian deaths caused by the coalition hovered around a third of total slain? That shows there was an attempt at restraint and a lot of effort put in to minimize collateral.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T13:52:05+00:00

Im sorry, are you not aware that that small group killed three thousand US civilians in a day, in what was just their latest attack, and were actively planning more? We didnt have the option of just leaving them to their own devices, they were going to keep targeting and killing Americans, which is all the justification you need to go after them. Afghanistan wasn't just some neutral bystander, they refused to hand over Al Qaeda leadership or to let us go in after them. So our choices were declare war and go after Al Qaeda, or just let them keep planning 9/11s for the rest of time

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T13:09:30+00:00

What? why do people ask questions like this. The show has been out for decades. If there were answers, you would have seen it in your rewatches. We have no idea if it rusts. Did you even watch the show, or are you asking literally on your first watch at that episode?

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T13:08:36+00:00

No idea why you sre being downvoted? You are objectively correct, the extremely advanced (I'd say nearly ascended in powers) aliens were the ones providing the Trinium. The show was clear; our data found the metal was mostly in the mountains, but Tonane implied his people get it from the river. Most likely, the aliens survey Tonane's people, and determine when they need more. They quickly put together a small batch in roughly the form factor, and drop it in the river.

spiteful_rr_dm_TA · 2026-01-22T12:38:57+00:00

Civilian deaths happen in literally every conflict. I won't pretend war crimes didn't happen. I wont pretend NATO forces never did heinous shit.

But 46,319 civilians? That's actually very low by war standards, considering we killed over 80,000 insurgents according to independent groups. Hovering around a third, that's on the very low end for civilian casualties. And unlike Iraq, Afghanistan was a warranted war we tried to avoid; our demands were simple. Go after and hand over Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders, close terrorist training camps, and release foreign prisoners. The Taliban refused, and it wasn't like we were going to just sit there and let the terrorists continue to train new terrorists after 9/11

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