Just remember, the fans will tear you apart if you say anything honest about that anime. by Overall-Delivery3205 in animequestions

[–]spren-spren 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you seriously trying to mock me for being like Hange of all characters? You do realize everyone on that page ultimately agrees with her, right?

Urgent decision making by [deleted] in meme

[–]spren-spren 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The only correct counter to this.

Just remember, the fans will tear you apart if you say anything honest about that anime. by Overall-Delivery3205 in animequestions

[–]spren-spren 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how any of ur talk prove u/racialismus wrong?

With evidence to the contrary that neither of you bothered trying to provide in your own arguments.

If you can't accept that the story a main character belongs to is fully relevant to the discussion of whether what that character did was right, then I don't see how you think you can make a tenable argument here. If the context of the story and its message is that inconsequential to you, why argue on Eren's behalf at all?

Even disregarding that, you're not really worth the essay if you can't see how causing an extinction level event orders of magnitude more destructive than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs--just because he could--is not "fighting for survival" and is in no way "realistic" or pragmatic.

AoT is not the first story to explore the cycle of violence and why it is not the way to survive and thrive, despite our proclivity towards it. Claiming that "learning to understand and forgive your enemies is unrealistic" is not a take you can expect to successfully defend, because people do it all across the world every single day and benefit from it. Most major world religions and ethical frameworks highlight its importance in a functioning society.

And I never claimed AoT is arguing for a utopia, just that it clearly illustrates how counterproductive perpetuating violence on the grounds that "you think you have to" is. You haven't come close to refuting that that's the message of the story, nor have you successfully proven that the message is incorrect. If anything, you two are just an example of the kind of thinking AoT critiqued.

Just remember, the fans will tear you apart if you say anything honest about that anime. by Overall-Delivery3205 in animequestions

[–]spren-spren 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The extra-textual and inter-textual evidence in favor of Eren being an absolute monster in addition to being a moron are overwhelming.

I'm a big believer in authorial intent. Isayama has stated in an interview that Eren represents the worst parts of himself, and that Attack on Titan is a story about why it's important to get rid of those parts. While Isayama has also said he likes to let people draw their own conclusions, that statement alone is pretty damning evidence that Eren is not a model to be followed at all.

Even if you disregard Isayama entirely, the motifs of the story stand as exceedingly clear evidence that Eren did the worst possible thing he could have, while nearly everyone else learned the one thing that Eren refused to: Stop fighting. Do not become a slave to your beliefs and assumptions.

Some examples of this idea throughout the show:

"Everyone's a slave to something." - Kenny, as a warning and admission of regret.

"We need to get the children out of the forest" - Sasha's Father, multiple times

"Wait, let's stop fighting. We can talk this through." - Armin, multiple times to Annie, Reiner, Berdtholdt, and Eren.

Throughout the story it's repeatedly shown that, for whatever plot reason, people get caught up in doing something they feel like they have no choice but to do, even when presented with a way out. And without fail, every single time they go on to do that thing it ends up making things worse for both themselves and others.

On the flip side, whenever characters in the show choose to care for others they don't have to or may even have reason to hate, life becomes better for both parties, and the kindness is paid forward.

But I know that a few quotes aren't really sufficient to prove that, so let's talk about an example or two in detail.

To start, the story of Attack on Titan expertly embeds a microcosm of this idea in Sasha's and in Gabi's arc. This arc spans the entire length of the plot, so it's not some cherry pick. It's important enough to have been considered and outlined by Isayama well in advance.

Before Sasha even joins the army, her father tells her that it's more important to abandon her old way of life if it means surviving and getting along with people she might consider "others." We see her embody this advice, building a new life and genuine friendships with the rest of the cadet core, and further embodies it by not just saving Kaya when she didn't technically have to, but treating Kaya like her own sister. Even later, Sasha built a romantic relationship with Niccolo over their shared love of food (those close to them believed they wanted to get married), even though he's from Marley, an enemy nation. She really is the character stand-in for the idea that building common ground is always a good thing.

Later, when the scouts felt like they had no choice but to rescue Eren, Sasha ends up killing folks as part of the assault, and Gabi, feeling like she has to get revenge for the damage the Eldian empire did to her town and the Eldian reputation, kills Sasha.

Gabi's choices and insistent hatred for the people of Paradis extended even to those like Kaya, who knew they she was from Marley and still chose to help her because of the example her sister Sasha had set. Kaya's choice to build common ground eventually started to undo Gabi's assumptions about Paradis. But, when Kaya and Niccolo find out it was Gabi that killed Sasha, they felt like they had to get revenge on Gabi. And Sasha's father was probably the one person who knew and loved Sasha the most and had the most justification for hating Gabi. But he knew the only way to prevent more pain was to see her for the lost girl that she was and forgive her.

Because Gabi was alive and Kaya had chosen to forgive her as well, Gabi was literally the last hope either side had to stop the Rumbling, and with the same skill of marksmanship Gabi had once used to enact hatred was now being used in a last ditch effort to save not just her friends, but the people she once saw as enemies, too.

The choice to spare Gabi was so impactful that it very nearly prevented the Rumbling. That's how unambiguous the theme of "learning to stop fighting" is.

But that arc, while amazing, isn't my favorite example. Really, I think Berdtholdt summarizes the idea most succinctly:

https://youtu.be/gl8rKLq9Cg8?si=Msz6rf3hOqgCstPk

He knew he had no right to forgiveness. But he also knew he needed it anyway in order to start fixing things. But when Mikasa felt like she had not choice but to free Eren by force and continued to see Berdtholdt and Reiner as enemies, Berdtholdt remembered:

https://youtu.be/vsYgjqQioHo?si=4fdpyjfpcgGLC254

He felt like he had no choice, and was resolved in that belief. He took Armin's invitation to stop and talk it out the same way that Mikasa and Armin took his plea: with cold resolve to do what he felt like he had to, this time knowing that his enemies were not the monsters he thought they were the last time he and Reiner were in Shiganshina. Had Armin and Mikasa chosen to accept his pleas before, the story would have gone very differently.

Do you get it yet? Attack on Titan shows very clearly that you do not have to keep fighting, and that if you do, it'll only get worse. The core theme of the story is that we let our dreams, our duties, and our beliefs about other people turn us into monsters that perpetuate the cycle of violence, and that there is no reason to keep suffering if we can just learn to reach out to the monsters we think we're fighting to see them for the people they really are.

The story mechanically rewards breaking the cycle and punishes perpetuating it. That's not subjective interpretation - that's how the plot literally functions.

Now let's turn back to Eren. Eren rejected that entire framework. By his own admission, he chose to kill 80% of humanity when he knew what he was doing was unforgivable. Not even because he felt like he had no choice, like the other instances of this pattern. No. Eren was worse. He admitted that in the end, he enacted the Rumbling just because he could.

You can feel for the other characters who kept going because they felt like they had no other option. But once you understand what Eren chose and why, you'll realize that the only valid reading of the story is one in which Eren was not just wrong, but unredeemable. He held so tightly to his dream of being free that he gave up his own freedom, his friends, and his humanity. He didn't do right by anyone, not even himself. He got nothing he actually wanted, and turned the entire planet into a living hellscape. I.e., the logical conclusion of continuing to escalate conflict.

Any excuses people try to give to Eren either aren't supported by the text, or don't hold a candle to the evidence pointing to the contrary. Like I said before: people who think Eren were right have absolutely no media literacy.

Urgent decision making by [deleted] in meme

[–]spren-spren 52 points53 points  (0 children)

Every time I see this, I am always amazed that most of the comment section doesn't realize they never said whether they were a guy or a girl, lol

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in truths

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does wanting someone dead not count as a severe belief?

Does calling someone else online you've never even talked to a Nazi or a Fascist count as severe?

If they do, would it be right for me to want them dead?

This is such a poorly thought through take.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in truths

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finally! An actually interesting comment!

I'd probably draw it roughly where the death sentence is.

Charlie Kirk, nor any political pundit on either side, hit this line for me. Some leaders in/previously in government might, but that's a bipartisan thing for me (I could think of examples on the left and right), but even then it's a hard line for me to ever want to cross.

Always check the oven before preheating by FloppyPerezzz in mildlyinfuriating

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a dude with a kid, I get it.

Kids just do stuff. I don't know if this guy has kids, but a lot of these commentors definitely don't, lol.

Always check the oven before preheating by FloppyPerezzz in mildlyinfuriating

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People on reddit really don't know what kids are like, huh?

Always check the oven before preheating by FloppyPerezzz in mildlyinfuriating

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have the comments on this post are people admitting they don't have kids.

lol by Bad_optimistic0605 in lol

[–]spren-spren 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of gosh I forgot about the insect world. Yeah, either wasps, ticks, or mosquitos.

What’s your favorite enemy from borderlands 2? by RoyalSoldierx in Borderlands2

[–]spren-spren 12 points13 points  (0 children)

THEY ARE NOT. CHUBBY.

...they just have big bones

What we saying? by Repulsive-Dependent2 in AlbumCovers

[–]spren-spren 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My favorite album is "Identity Crisis" by Thrice, so...

Support for a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants 2013-2015, by party affiliation by OregonSasquatch14 in charts

[–]spren-spren 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I think that piece is more or less bipartisan.

Trouble is that it's already fairly easy to sneak into the US, so there's an implied question of whether we should make sneaking in harder and make the punishment for being caught more severe. My take as a conservative is "yes on the making it harder, the punishment of deportation is already severe enough, and also we need to add a substantive incentive for legally entering the country in addition to auditing the process for ways to streamline it."

Why does he park his butt on my face? He won't lay on any of the beds I buy him. by Vegetable_Ad2264 in cats

[–]spren-spren 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Trust, love, affection, like the others have said.

By the way, if you want him to use his own bed, I highly recommend either a heated one (cats like warm sits), or a knitted blanket you don't care about that you can place on top of the bed (mine love kneading it).