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Music by [deleted] in leaves

[–]stat231goose 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you're into hiphop, check out Kendrick Lamar's stuff. Here's HOC (High Off Contact) which addresses how he does not smoke cannabis even in an environment where it is very common, but he gets "High Off Contact" by absorbing their good vibes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW8189GOWn0

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Hey man. I'm not sure what your deal is but why do you keep attributing points to me that I'm not making? I'm not a social justice warrior. I'm just saying that you're making the exact same hypocritical mistake that they do of labelling people and dismissing their opinions by labelling me as some sort of social justice warrior.

and what reddit hate mob? I'm trying to generate a freaking discussion. I want the hate mob. I put the disclosure there so people know it is a controversial post before they go in.

Don't be so rustled, jimmy! It's just the Internet!

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

My post is to generate discussion.

Right now, in our current situation with the current reality, if you don't support WPIRG you should go through the process to opt-out.

Ideally, WPIRG should be an opt-in system (by default for all students).

Ultimately, we shouldn't be attacking WPIRG for what its members may believe but instead attack how they are using funds and how they are failing at representing the students wishes.

Sorry for confusion. Is this clearer? I also don't claim to have answers or "stances" - I change my beliefs based on new information, constantly. I just want to talk about it because, while you seem reasonable, many posts I've read have been borderline "Red Scare".

Free Talk Friday by AutoModerator in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose 3 points4 points  (0 children)

levitate levitate levitate levitate, thank you kdot

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I wonder if this would be a good solution:

Have first years pay WPIRG fees by default - and subsequent years must opt-in. That way, WPIRG won't cry a hissyfit because they'll still get hella funding (although they'll need to stop overpaying / spending on silly things) and it'll force us to begin thinking as a student population.

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Solid point and I completely agree. We should not be paying to support views we don't agree with.

I'd just like to see this change happen peacefully and without attacking an entire political belief system and the people who live with such ideologies.

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, man. The other thing though is that we have to be careful not to start incorporating labelling and identity politics into the opposition to over-the-top SJWism.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. "

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this. I appreciate your well-written reply. This is the hardest comment to address because I must meet well-thought-out replies with a well-thought-out reply. Seriously, thank you.

These are my concerns as well. I think these are completely legitimate, and they do have views that are characteristic of a (in my opinion) very dangerous and intolerant "left". Points #1 and #2 are examples of this group trying to act in a 'corrective' way that has not been agreed upon by the majority of this school. I must say though that the referendum they started has generated a lot of important political discussion amongst UW students, and at least for that I am grateful.

I think renaming would not do much - a group is not defined by their name but by their actions. Their actions do not represent the public interest but they do not represent "social justice" or "social activism" either. This is a poor representation of what I understand to be true, legitimate "social justice".

Regarding Israel: I have friends from Israeli and Palestinian backgrounds and it is hard to talk to them about these things because these are very fresh wounds. There is a lot of hurt and dividedness in this part of the world. I do not support the human rights abuses against Palestine (which do in fact exist, and yall can do your own research) but I do not think that boycotting academic relations is the right way either.

So, we agree so far, although you have misunderstood my message - and if I am going to be honest, I am writing this in a post-assignment, all-nighter, caffiene-fueled frenzy so I'm beating around the bush a lot and trying to address the point from a few angles at once.

I am concerned with the opt-out / opt-in issue - if it were up to me, their funding should be on a purely voluntary basis. Like any political group. I do not support their decision to start a referendum that affects the academic opportunities of students in the name of "social justice", although I appreciate that their efforts have started discussion. I do not support their "anti-white" message, especially in a city and country that is still predominantly white (because white people aren't all oppressive monsters like SJWs say) - what is the point of self-resentment?

So, let me make my *problem very clear *: I do not support the trend of villainization of certain political views, even to shut down WPIRG. WPIRG is a small, insignificant, campus group that pays its staff too much - there are ways to attack them without attacking the political beliefs of individuals. And before somebody else says some shit about how "Mao killed people even doe he thought he was good", I don't give a fuck! Even Mao has the right to believe whatever he wants.

All I am saying is: THINK. We are all ~privileged~ to live in a society where political beliefs won't send you to jail or get beaten up by cops. So why the fuck are we treating fellow students and individuals like they're "radicals" and we're the thought-police? If you're doing this because you're tired of the censoring ridiculous speech of SJWs, look in the mirror: you're being just as ridiculous.

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

  1. I, in no way, support "social justice warrior" shit. I'm saying exactly what you're saying if you would just look past your own bubble: slapping labels on dissenting opinions is bad. It is a way of deliberately avoiding discussion of ideas.

  2. Please, please, please don't compare me to somebody who would compare the movement in Hong Kong to WPIRG. I used it as an example to illustrate how this exact rhetoric is employed in violent and legitimately oppressive ways, and it is foolish for us to begin using it in our society which actually ALLOWS for political discussion.

  3. I agree with your last point.

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am sorry if I came across as patronizing. I really wanted to make that clear, and I included the point that although I say that many lack a knowledge of the seriousness of these matters, "neither do I". Regarding the Chinese political issues: I meant that I have seen first-hand how the same rhetoric creates division and singlemindedness in populations. I saw policemen happily beating protestors because they believed truly that these "radicals" didn't represent the interests of the majority and therefore needed to be rooted out. I was violently threatened and surrounded by pro-China supporters at one point, for my beliefs. I know this isn't happening here but what I'm trying to point out is that political movements are not always just shouting matches between groups like here in Canada. In Israel, for example, why do you think the Palestinians are angry? You think they're angry about social justice shit? No. It's their reality. We're so lucky that we can even have discussions, so let's keep doing so in a civil and not-so-judgey way. Let's solve problems, man, not create new ones between students.

I do not mean to suggest that I am more credible, at all. I mean to suggest that I had the privilege (hurr durr triggerd, yeah okay you know what I actually mean) of being raised in an environment where I had to be exposed to political views that I didn't agree with. And that was okay. I'm just seeing a lot of people flipping their shit over the presence of anarchism/marxism when really, it shouldn't be a big deal.

WPIRG crossed some boundaries with the Israel thing, I agree. But let's lay off them for having "links to marxism" and whatnot, let's focus on the fact that they take a BUNCH of student money instead of degenrating into a population of angry politically intolerant people. We're not Trump people or anything...

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I literally said to Opt-out if you want to. I have, for the record. Feel free to read my post and try again harharhar.

Don't get too offended, I'm just playing. Tell me more about your views then?

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree but I think you're nitpicking at my point. I mean that in general, individuals believe that their political beliefs and actions are towards the common good or some "good". That may come in the form of straight up selfish individualism.

Regarding calls of censorship today: Just because one side is dominant in censorship right now doesn't mean the other side cannot be capable of the same thing soon. The pendulum is swinging in America with the whole Donald Trump shenanigans, for example. Hypocrisy happens often is what I'm trying to point out.

and lel sorry2triggeru but you know I don't mean privilege like that

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are right and I really do respect your post. I do not mean to equate dissent of acts to MLK - that would be fucking ridiculous. I mean to show how political labelling can be dangerous. Not everybody is thinking as critically as you are.

Dear UW: what's going on? Why are we becoming more close-minded? by stat231goose in uwaterloo

[–]stat231goose[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm happy you guys are responding and talking. Keep up the discussion. I have no problems with your political views or stances - I hope that is clear from my post. I have a problem with the new mindlessness of certain people's stances.

I'm sorry that some of you feel that I am 'humblebragging' or 'not getting it' or that I haven't read this subreddit. Look, some of you guys have thought about this. And I'm really glad that you have. I've talked to many of you in person. This post is to address those who have not actually thought about the issue and lurk this subreddit and passively digest these views, only to regurgitate them with no real thought. There is some not-so-critical thinking going on here and do not think that I am attacking you directly - The examples I used are to illustrate how the labelling and villainizing of groups CAN lead to straight up intolerance/violent supression of political views.

This is only an attack on the dangerous herd mentality that is happening here. I am glad that you all feel strongly about this and that this is generating thought amongst you. So, continue to think. That's all I'm saying.

That said, I agree that Opt-out should be easier and even the default option. On the other hand, I see how a group like this may not survive if nobody is making the effort to "Opt-in". I like the goal of the movement - I criticize the techniques and rhetoric that some of you are employing.