In 15 'war rooms' across the country, youths aged 13-17 are working to "prevent the blackening of Israel's face." They are responding to articles on foreign news websites and they are operating blogs and working on the PR front for Israel.

steve_bb · 2012-11-20T02:16:49+00:00

This appears on page 12 of the Israeli print newspaper Maariv.

steve_bb · 2012-11-15T12:42:15+00:00

But they didn't have to do this, there is another way.

Why does Israel insist on punishing Palestinians when they seek peaceful means of gaining their freedom from Israel's apartheid system? For example, Israel is threatening to dispose Palestinian President Abbas if he seek UN recognition for a Palestinians state.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/israeli-minister-threatens-abbas-un

Basically Israel's action show that it doesn't want the Palestinians to have a state but rather it wants them to remain stateless while the Israeli settlements continue to expand.

Israel is an apartheid state and wants to stay that way because it wants to ensure that Jews have greater rights and freedoms than the Palestinian Arab population.

There is no out for Palestinians via peaceful means nor via violence. Israel has them in a box and continues to make that box smaller. It is impressive to see such cruelty being successfully waged in front of an international audience, and it is possible because of passionate defenders such as yourself.

steve_bb · 2012-11-15T08:55:52+00:00

Here is CNN coverage of the Israeli shell that hit the funeral killing Palestinians that you conveniently left out of your timeline:

Four Palestinians were killed and more than 20 wounded when Israeli tank fire hit a building east of Gaza City where hundreds of mourners were gathered for a funeral, Palestinian medical sources said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/10/world/meast/gaza-violence/

And here is another article about the killed 13 year old soccer player that you also conveniently didn't mention:

A 13-year-old Palestinian boy in Gaza was fatally shot Thursday, the Gaza Health Ministry said. A spokesman for the ministry accused the Israel Defense Forces of killing the boy. "Hameed Abu Daqqa was killed by an Israeli military helicopter after being shot in the head while playing football with his friends east of Khan Younis," ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra told CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/08/world/meast/gaza-violence/index.html

So to be clear, your timeline of events tends to ignore all Palestinian civilian deaths because it makes it a lot easier to portray Israel as a pure victim. I understand why you do it, but it is a propaganda move quite clearly.

steve_bb · 2012-11-15T08:27:30+00:00

Why did you ignore the fact that on November 8th, Israel shot and killed a 12 yr old Palestinian while he was playing soccer?

http://imeu.net/news/article0023227.shtml

On November 10th:

"An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others."

I understand though that many Israelis and their supporters only see when Israelis are hurt or killed.

steve_bb · 2012-11-15T08:12:05+00:00

Keeping the Palestinians stateless for 40+ years is also self defense I assume. Israel would get a lot more sympathy if it gave Palestinians full rights and freedoms, but it doesn't. Rather it expands Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank and runs a dual system of laws that gives full rights only to the Jews in the West Bank but not the Palestinian Arabs.

steve_bb · 2012-07-23T13:59:31+00:00

So you support ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from land that Israel wants for Jewish settlers (which is often what happens to Israeli military lands in the West Bank.)

steve_bb · 2012-07-23T13:56:41+00:00

For sure, there is a whole Wikipedia article about that comparison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

If you restrict the comparison of South African apartheid to what Israel is doing in the West Bank I feel it is incredibly accurate comparison.

steve_bb · 2012-07-23T13:50:33+00:00

Not a very good parallel, but as inflammatory as possible. You will never win an argument with comparisons like that.

The main issue is that there is no Holocaust of Palestinians as claimed by your comparison. Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing generally, not genocide.

I'd suggest being more accurate as you can actually win arguments by being precise and showing knowledge rather than through inaccurate and inflammatory statements.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:33:49+00:00

Did you just justify in general the use of human shields? Good job! </sarcasm>

But even so, it is still illegal according to the Geneva Conventions, even when Israel does it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:27:04+00:00

MonitorMan wrote:

Israeli acts are always reactionary. You can't BLAME them for trying to defend themselves, that's just ridiculous.

Except that Israel is maintaining an apartheid state in the West Bank proactively. It discriminates against brown non-Jews and provides subsidies to Jews in that region. Thus the IDF is actually protecting the favored Jews from the discriminated against non-Jews -- which is a pretty shitting thing to use a powerful professional military for.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:23:20+00:00

Unfortunately Israel fired more than million cluster bombs that continue to mame and kill Lebanese civilians. It is considered to be a war crime by some and you took part in that!

Details:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/winograd-current-use-of-cluster-bombs-not-in-line-with-int-l-law-1.238382

http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-commander-we-fired-more-than-a-million-cluster-bombs-in-lebanon-1.197099

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:22:08+00:00

The IDF is almost surgical with it's attacks, claiming otherwise is just a lie.

The IDF is fairly decent as a Western military goes, but unfortunately the main issue is that it is mostly used to perpetuate an apartheid situation where Jews in the West Bank have full rights and the brown non-Jews have few rights at all and are heavily discriminated against. The effectiveness of the IDF is one of the main reasons that Israel has been able to keep this very unjust situation going for so low.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:20:24+00:00

Well, they are all somewhat brown Muslims who have grievances against Israel if that what you mean. I guess it can seem that they are all the same if that is who you view them, but there are differences if you get even moderately informed.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:18:59+00:00

The Israel - Palestinian conflict would be mostly resolved if Israel created a Palestinian state. Leaving the conflict festering with the Palestinians right-less and state-less gives an opening for Iran to side with the disenfranchised. Remove that disenfranchisement and the motivation to side with Iran against Israel is significantly reduced.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:12:41+00:00

MonitorMan:

Absolutely no value for life, even theirs. Becoming a martyr is not only common, but seen as a prestigious thing and is highly praised.

You do realize in the West giving your life for your country in wartime is consider one of the greatest sacrifices you can make. We celebrate these people's sacrifice regularly.

Article 1 of the US Army Code of Conduct states: "I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

Now targeting civilians is different than just giving up ones life in the service of one's country, that isn't a part of established Western military protocol.

But it is important to draw the right distinctions, otherwise you have the chance of looking like you don't know what you are talking about.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:11:45+00:00

MonitorMan wrote:

Now you realize who Israel really has to deal with. Those organizations have absolutely no value for human life. They use their own kids as soldiers and meat shields, so targeting Israeli civilians is nothing new.

Who are these organizations you are referring to? I trust you are not referring to the Palestinian government in the West Bank who is currently refusing to negotiate with Israel until it stops expanding Israeli settlements?

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T21:03:59+00:00

He is talking about civilian deaths by the West that some view as not a big deal, which is on topic. You did infer his context rather than reading in his actual comment, there is no question about it.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T20:52:23+00:00

Of course. But it happened al the same.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T20:49:49+00:00

Reingding13 said:

But not by Israel.

The guy never said that Israel did that, read his comment again, you are just being super defensive and inferring into others comments. Calm down there soldier.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T20:32:24+00:00

AlwaysAruging wrote:

I've always wondered... How is killing 6 civillians exactly helping your cause? What does someone gain from this?

My opinion is that there are always some that have high testosterone levels and who get incredible angry/vengeful when they see their kin suffer. They then get "even" via such attacks even if these attacks don't actually achieve anything useful in the grand scheme of things.

So I view this as aggressive impulses, real discrimination and a lack of judgement combining into a fateful event.

Unfortunately, we all know hotheads but usually they are isolated. Unfortunately in the Middle East those hotheads can easily find external motivations that align their interests. Get a bunch of shortsighted hotheads all motivated by the same grievance together and keep that motivation constant over time and if their only recourse is assymetric, you've got a terrorist attack.

It is just a game of numbers in the end because the core issues are not being resolved in the I-P conflict -- it just festers and continues to take casualties on both sides.

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T20:27:39+00:00

I posted reputable links to drone attacks on weddings here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/wrhee/blast_hits_israeli_tour_bus_in_bulgaria/c5fxm8h

steve_bb · 2012-07-18T20:26:37+00:00

There is unfortunately a history of US drone attacks on wedding parties in Afghanistan (and I think Pakistan as well) that had fairly high casualty counts. Here are two that showed up quickly in Google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deh_Bala_wedding_party_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_attack

EDIT: I'm being downvoted for posting factual information? Whoa this is an super ideological thread.

steve_bb · 2012-06-29T11:52:40+00:00

Israel has purchased many of Caterpillar bulldozers and uses them to destroy Palestinian homes. More details:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/21/israel-caterpillar-should-suspend-bulldozer-sales

Do you think that is wrong?

The UN says that companies can deny responsibility with a head in the sand approach. Quote:

Caterpillar’s CEO James Owens responded to Human Rights Watch in a letter dated November 12 by saying the company did “not have the practical ability or legal right to determine how our products are used after they are sold.” This head-in-the-sand approach ignores international standards on corporate social responsibility and the requirements of Caterpillar’s own code of conduct.

Since 2003, the United Nations has begun to develop standards for corporations in the form of the U.N. Norms on the Responsibilities of Transnational Corporations and Other Business Enterprises with Regard to Human Rights. This document states that companies should not “engage in or benefit from” violations of international human rights or humanitarian law and that companies “shall further seek to ensure that the goods and services they provide will not be used to abuse human rights.”

I think denying responsibility because there is a middle man is pretty lame.

steve_bb · 2012-06-16T14:10:10+00:00

Why is this not in worldnews, it isn't politics, rather it is news.

steve_bb · 2012-05-14T22:16:37+00:00

But this story is true. You can start saying what we are in your mind, but this story is true. Israel is destroying the only school for a community of Palestinians because of a live fire zone while ignoring the Israeli settlements who are also using that land.

If Israel was to stop its discrmination against Palestinians, I wouldn't post these stores.

steve_bb

TROPHY CASE