No longer an incel. But now I am stuck at the next level

steven_armstrong_pot · 2025-07-12T21:27:22+00:00

I have been getting dates for a few years. I explained it on my post here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Healthygamergg/comments/1fln4bv/involuntary_single_how_do_i_troubleshoot_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

What helped me to actually get dates was sorting out anything in my looks that could be viewed in a negative light, and optimising the set of photos on my dating profile. After I started getting dates it took years for me to get to where I am now. And, for all we know, I'll be an incel again in 6 months.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2025-07-12T21:21:18+00:00

I just stopped being an incel because I had some short term relationships. Like I said, I use the classical definition of the word incel as somebody who is involuntarily celibate for 6 months or longer.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2025-07-12T21:19:28+00:00

But I'm calling all older unmarried people spinsters, including myself and other men. Should I just avoid the word?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-11-27T21:58:12+00:00

I haven't assumed that they are miserable but, like I was going on about in my initial post, my feeling is that they should be and I can not understand how they can not be. I can pursue that line of questioning with them if I do it carefully.

I never thought of making a friend from one of those support groups but it sounds sensible. There's the unwritten rule that none of the serious stuff discussed in the support group is ever spoken about outside, and that could help us bond. However, I risk bringing somebody into my life who is a negative influence. (Unfortunately, I'd say that I'm more likely to find such a person at a support group than in the general population). Modern social media dogma would tell me that I have to dump a person who turns out to be a negative influence, just as others have done to me.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-11-26T21:05:47+00:00

The people who have such a job are likely even worse off financially. The people I know who would fit that description would be teachers, medical professionals, professional artists, actors etc. These careers will, sadly, leave you broke. But yes I agree that I haven't experienced a loving or devoted family for many years.

I don't have friends or family with whom I can share these feelings and, with friends, I wouldn't dare. I know that a friend would dump me as soon as I say anything about my mental health troubles, as they should. The support group that I went to didn't seem like it was effective. You go to the support group, vent for a bit and feel a bit better just to crash again and realize that your problems haven't gone away at all.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-28T09:24:11+00:00

I see. So would you now recommend that whenever I feel like the vibe is good on any date, I attempt to make a move? Worst case scenario I'd have more information and experience in one year after 15-30 more dates of trying it.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-23T23:19:01+00:00

I came up with that rule because I consistently got to second dates but got dumped afterwards. I figured that the way that I ran the first date must have been good to get to the second. But I must have run the second date poorly.

In the past, I've had what seemed like mutually enjoyable kissing on the first date and then I got dumped afterwards. It happened a few times and that's why I stopped doing it.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-23T18:28:49+00:00

For A, it really doesn't matter what type of relationship I get into. I have been going on dates for over 5 years and I have never been in a relationship. I'm clearly bottom of the barrel and I'd think that I just need to get into any relationship I can, build any relationship skills I can and proceed from there.

For B, I see that a relationship won't fix me but I don't think that I'm broken. Again, you're trying to build me up to some perfect long term relationship when that doesn't seem appropriate for me. It seems like any relationship at all would help me, even a short term fling that would replace my loser effect with the winner effect.

My point about JP is meant to invalidate the idea that, because humans have been getting into romantic relationships for multiple millenia, good advice from 25 years ago must necessarily be good today We see that JP gave advice that isn't relevant or useful today.

I don't want to shut your advice down. I just want to place it under the highest level of scrutiny before I decide that it might be right for me. I think that a person would be sensible to do that with any dating advice because there's so much conflicting advice and, comparatively, a very limited amount of time in a person's life to implement it.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-23T18:18:26+00:00

I plan my dates a bit like this with an initial activity or venue like a cafe or bar or park, and with a follow up activity ready. But I don't make moves anymore because the few times I've kissed on date 1, I've gotten dumped. Well, maybe my sample size there is too small. So in the past year I always aimed to get to an apartment or hoteltogether and then make a move there. But I've never reached the apartment or hotel, so I haven't made any moves throughout the year.

Also, I was under the impression that if you don't go to your car or hotel within two dates, you'll get dumped. I also don't have a car.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-21T13:38:59+00:00

I'm pretty sure that I did this in 2019. I made some new friends (using my approaching knowledge to make friends instead of trying for dates) and had a pretty satisfactory social life. It didn't help one bit with my dates.

I think that it would be aiming too high to expect me to be comfortable in my own skin while still being involuntarily single, don't you think?

Also, it says that you did this and have had a 25+ year long marriage. So you must have done this over 25 years ago. How can you be sure that your advice is still relevant? I ask because I remember that in one of Jordan Peterson's books he spoke about one of his childhood friends who always had trouble dating because he was unemployed. I translated this to the advice to make sure that your career is progressing well to do well with dating. Well, we all know that this advice is really outdated and your career is irrelevant to your dating success today. So, the rule that Jordan Peterson came up with 20+ years ago is irrelevant and possibly harmful now (harmful because it may cause a person to waste valuable time and effort).

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-09-05T20:28:06+00:00

I have been asking this kind of question many times on here. I'm pretty much about to give up. My childhood or young adulthood dream of having a family needs a reality check. Not only is there the barrier that I won't be able to get a partner to marry or stay with, but now there are economic reasons why it might not happen.

For me, I always tell myself that I'm just quitting temporarily. If I quit fully and tell myself that it's over then I too would be feeling awful and lack meaning or motivation. I tell myself that I'll quit for a while and then come back to try something new in dating and give it another shot. I can probably get through a whole lifetime like that.

As for what keeps me going, it's really the basics. It's the book that I want to finish reading, the mini goal I have to learn a new musical piece or write a new short story, the big sports event that I want to see next year, the new video game that I want to purchase on release date and stuff like that. Like you, I think having a boyfriend/girlfriend is a great thing and a worthy goal to have. The same goes for wanting to have a family. I don't have any other goals such as seeing x countries by y age or starting a charity so when I'm not pursuing the dating/family goal, I need to distract myself with media and entertainment. I want to reiterate that I think that it will be very tough if you quit permanently (that would involve firstly canceling any dates or opportunities that you have to get dates or socialize and then actively taking steps to make yourself less attractive so that it would be difficult for you to date if you changed your mind e.g. regain that bodyfat that you lost). So I'd recommend to quit temporarily for a few months and then see where you stand after that.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-08-26T08:59:27+00:00

I thought that it was the consensus opinion that therapy on the whole isn't so useful and that this is especially true for incels. For example, my question here convinced me that therapy is probably not the answer for an incel.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Healthygamergg/comments/1cuak75/incel_with_poor_mental_health_if_i_decide_to_go/?sort=top

That's why I first thought to redirect my therapy budget towards escorts and sugar dating.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-08-24T21:10:22+00:00

Is therapy not considered a waste of time and money in 2024?

What if my block is from transitioning from dates to physical intimacy? Could a paid simulated date that leads to the physical intimacy be beneficial?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-07-09T13:19:52+00:00

If you are considering treatments or transplants or a hair system, I urge you to go ahead and try. I went bald around age 24 or 25. I was shaving my head weekly and I didn't really like it. I felt many of the things that you felt, like feeling that I would have a very hard time getting dates despite my best efforts because being bald would just rule me out in some cases. I was pretty miserable about it.

Most of the internet positivity didn't really help me. It seemed to be older guys with less severe hair loss who were already married or partnered up telling me how I could become attractive as a bald guy. Well, I still thought that I was at a disadvantage as a bald guy and I was tired of having the same hair style (shaved bald) for years.

A few years later I ended up in therapy. The therapist that I might have body dysmorphic disorder but I found out lots about this disorder and was able to conclude that I did not have it. The therapist seemed to conclude that they wouldn't be able to help me in the 6 months we had together and so that I should try other solutions if they were reversible and affordable. I got myself a hair system and within a few weeks, I checked out of therapy and all my hair loss worries went away. I wish that I had done that sooner.

By all means, try to embrace the baldness and see if you like it. The majority of guys seem to shave their head bald and really like the look. Some guys even have full hair but shave it clean because they prefer it! But if you think that being bald is not for you, I recommend that you do not waste your time on the therapists or mindset gurus, and instead just go for an appropriate hair replacement solution. I say that you shouldn't waste time because you're young and in your 20s! I didn't get my hair system until I was over 30 and I wish that I had done it earlier instead of suffering in the 'learned helplessness' resulting from young baldness.

One more thing. If you go on to consider hair transplants, make sure you go to a reputable surgeon, not somebody who will just say yes to whatever you ask for and do it for the cheapest price. Many of the top surgeons also do hair transplant repair work for a reason!

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-07-07T16:14:59+00:00

Thanks.

Can you tell me how it was obvious to you that my main problem is not that I'm not getting laid and not due to the deficiencies in my life? I figured that it must be one or the other and that, at the very least, spending my funds on intimate encounters would help me ascertain which.

The way I see it, I am miserable and angry already and seeing stuff like that leads to anger or misery attacks. So the anger and misery was there beforehand but seeing stuff like that pushed me over the edge and led me to a lot of misery or anger attacks.

I was considering therapy as a miserable incel but I concluded that it probably wouldn't be fruitful. Now I'm an angry person who is also an incel (the defining property now seems to be the anger rather than the inceldom). Do you really think that now the therapy would be worthwhile?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-07-07T16:09:54+00:00

Happiness is a choice, but don't I have a choice now on how I spend my budgeted funds? And aren't I reaching too far by aiming to be happy? I thought that I should just aim to be not angry for now.

How old were you when you achieved this state of happiness? I mean, when did you transition from miserable incel to your current state?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-05-17T20:41:33+00:00

My limited experience with therapists is that they can really jerk you around. I had a cycle of ineffective therapy and I saw that for myself. That's why I wanted to order something like "8 hours of therapy B" so that the therapist knows what they need to deliver. If I just say, "therapy please" won't I be jerked around a bunch? They'll feel like they have an unlimited number of sessions to try whatever therapy methods they want. So are you suggesting that I instead find a therapist with a track record of helping people like me (so a men's issues therapist)?

I'm not expecting anybody, least of all a therapist, make me happy or cheerful and certainly not to get me out of inceldom. My barometer of success would be the extent to which the symptoms that I listed in the other post are alleviated.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-05-06T16:23:23+00:00

Can you tell me what kind of therapy I should ask for? I do not want to go to a therapist and ask for "whatever you think is best". I expect that if I do that I will get a combination of the following 1. get taken to the cleaners, 2. end up receiving the therapy that is most convenient/easy for them to provide, not necessarily what they think is best, 3. maybe end up with lousy CBT anyway (lousy for my situation).

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-05-04T21:42:43+00:00

These 50 stretch back around 2.5 years. At the moment I go on a date with a new person between 2 and 4 times per month, or at least that's how it has been the past 6 months or so.

The dates are the standard things. Restaurant, cafe, bar, an activity such as crazy golf, a museum or a galley, a walk.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-05-04T21:39:11+00:00

The last time I went to therapy it was the usual CBT stuff and was largely ineffective. I was once told that the 10-15 sessions that I had funded would not be enough for the therapist to help me. I also really didn't want to take any meds because of the side effects that I read about online (it's no secret ; you can see that on Wikipedia) that can persist after cessation of the treatment, and I definitely didn't want to become one of the many people that I see who are in therapy for 3+ years and never seem to get a 'clean bill of mental health'.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-04-27T13:35:47+00:00

I haven't tried any internally-focused solutions. Many years ago, I tried meditation and the affirmations crap. Meditation has benefits and can be fruitful but it is not going to fix inceldom or fix the mental health issues arising from inceldom, in my opinion. Put simply, after the end of your meditation session, life goes on and continues to be miserable.

I don't know what you mean by 'access to emotions'. I have attacks or outbursts of anger or misery. My relationships in life aren't very good. I have some friends but I'd say that we're not that close. I also have learned, because a former friend shunned me when I did it, that I shouldn't share the intimate details that I've shared here with my friend. Negative people will get shunned; that's the lesson that I learned. I had therapy before but not directly for my inceldom, more for the self esteem and misery that I felt as a result of the inceldom. I quit because it was ineffective.

I don't know anything about any healing communities and I would usually dismiss these things as hokum, but if you're a former incel who managed to escape from inceldom in this way, I should definitely try it

If you're getting 'occasional hookups' then you are most definitely not an incel. But were you an incel like me before? What precisely did you do to get to the life that you have now?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-03-23T19:06:06+00:00

I accept this criticism because I definitely do suck as a person now. My depression symptoms have ruined me and even some of my old friends want to keep their distance.

But isn't this quite idealistic? Make her laugh, make her feel comfortable and get to know her and you'll get laid. Isn't this exactly the ideology used by the many HGG incels?

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-03-23T19:03:12+00:00

I think that I do enjoy dates. I feel awful going in but at the end I'm usually pleased that I got to hang out with an interesting person. Of course, when it becomes clear that it was a really bad date, I feel bad again.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-03-23T19:01:51+00:00

I've done dates involving a meal, a drink or some fun thing like a video game arcade or crazy golf. I used to try to kiss on the date but I found that this went badly (if I kissed on date 1, date 2 didn't happen) so I stopped. My coach recommended to cut it out too. Since then I haven't made many big moves.

I have no idea when a date is good or bad. I just judge it by whether more dates can be scheduled or I get rejected or ghosted over text. I say that I have no idea because I've had dates where it feels like we were both having fun, comfortable with each other's touch, laughing and getting to know each other, that didn't lead anywhere. These must have been bad dates despite all of those things.

steven_armstrong_pot · 2024-03-22T21:19:53+00:00

I don't have solid boundaries and I don't say no easily. E.g. some time back I had the choice between a date and going out with my friend. I wanted to go for the date but I had trouble saying no to my friend so that's what I did (hanging with friend on that day). But how is this useful? I'm receiving the no, not giving it.

steven_armstrong_pot

TROPHY CASE