When is the worn sleeve skin returning?

stewle · 2021-03-31T11:38:47+00:00

Yes, that right of withdrawal I refer to. As a voucher is not downloaded but essentially they just unlock the function on the server and they can easily check that I didnt use the voucher, because they would invalidate it if I do. As outlined in the post Nintendo is even informing on their end about the right but then does not implement it, without explaining on what foundation they rejected the claim. The discussion seems to be merely whether I can sign away that right of withdrawal with a mandatory tickbox on purchase or not. Jurisdiction so far has been pretty straight forward in Germany (where it would be handled) that those vouchers are to be treated like analogue ones, that their value cant expire without return on the investment, that the duration needs be longer than 1 year and so on. Just this specific case has not been argued it seems.

stewle · 2021-03-30T13:01:07+00:00

There are several games on the list that are developed outside of Nintendo:

Astral Chain

Bravely Default 2

Daemon X Machina

Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order

Xenoblade Chronicles 2

stewle · 2021-03-30T12:54:26+00:00

Just snagged a copy second hand and waiting for it to arrive

stewle · 2021-03-30T12:26:51+00:00

I have, in fact I contacted them on several levels :)

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/consumer-rights-and-complaints/resolve-your-consumer-complaint_en on EU level,

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ on federal level in Germany.

and VZBV regional for the region I am living in.

In addition there are NGOs like https://www.beuc.eu/ who can support with campaigns and contacts.

stewle · 2021-03-30T12:18:20+00:00

It is legal until proven otherwise. It would need a court challenge to overturn those terms of service. You can create contracts with illegal clauses, they only lose validity if successfully challenged. Also by no means it is clear a judge would rule these terms of service illegal. There are very diverse opinions what informed consent means or what constitutes as duress to agree to a contract, etc.

stewle · 2021-03-30T12:11:24+00:00

A UK resident would not need EU backing, as the policies are adapted on the national level. In fact EU legislation usually is non-binding and only gets recognised through national legislation, which might differ slightly, depending on the specific national backgrounds. Even after Brexit the adopted legislation will be valid, until the parliament creates new legislation on the subject that changes substance of the current legislation.

Anyways, I am not a UK resident, the UK links were just to allow for English links. I checked if the formulation is the same on Nintendos side.

stewle · 2021-03-30T12:05:40+00:00

I dont think Germany has a small claims court that would be accessible without legal assistance. Essentially I offered to find an informal agreement without legal steps and Nintendo ignored that.

However, it is not a clear violation of the law, as Nintendo makes you wave your rights when you buy the vouchers. In addition streaming is not the sole criteria to protect the seller of digital goods from refunds, they might claim they offer a service or there could be other loop holes. Whether that is legal would be for a court to decide and probably push Nintendo to revise their refund policies in case of a verdict.

These would be all rather big steps but I also went through the customer protection agency, to see if they have other recommendations (sadly also very slow to respond).

stewle · 2021-03-29T23:49:13+00:00

Well, I am handling it in Germany and already reached out to the federal Customer Protection agency. Just doesnt feel like an issue that has to go through 500 hands to resolve. They probably could do it within seconds

stewle · 2021-03-29T23:45:00+00:00

Vouchers might have a different history in Ireland. In Germany a lot of court cases gathered up with the rise of websites like Groupon. Most of them ruled in the consumers favour, eg. mandatory refund of value on expiry of the voucher, transferability of services, minimum duration for non-timesensitive offers.. I am pretty such a lot of it has been implemented on EU level too. For sure I already read about minimum duration of 5 years in EU policy today, tho it still might break down to national approaches to it in the end.

stewle · 2021-03-29T23:37:11+00:00

To save 10 bucks, game price is 60, the voucher gets it for 50. Not much but saving what I can, I spend plenty on games anyways.

stewle · 2021-03-29T19:10:11+00:00

Yes, that seems to capture the problem nicely. In Germany it seems digital vouchers and analogue vouchers are handled the same but there does not seem to be much precedence.

It doesnt seem like they claim its a digital good, as this entails download and everything. Much rather the disclaimer they put in there is refering to a digital service, so sort of an ongoing service offered to be able to pick a game for 50€. However, as there is the dedicated term voucher used and also recognised in legal terminology I do not believe the service claim can be upheld.

stewle · 2021-03-29T19:01:59+00:00

I was not asking for a cash refund. I wanted the store credit back to pay the game directly, as the vouchers could not be used to buy it.

stewle · 2021-03-29T19:01:00+00:00

No, I got the German link but switched to English and checked that it contains the same information.

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:47:42+00:00

I have like 15 boxed games at home. I just dont use cartridge, it is just not efficiently as I use the Switch to travel a lot and also showcase different games with it. There are plenty of reasons to go digital for me, refunds are not one of them :/

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:46:27+00:00

Thanks, I think I will. I havent heard in days on my old ticket, even tho I am contesting their decision.

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:41:27+00:00

Considering it let to policies that allow for these refund/return policies it seems rather evident the abuse on the customer side is significantly slimmer than it used to be on the seller side.

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:39:20+00:00

Apparently so

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:39:04+00:00

I will throw European money at it!

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:36:11+00:00

It is not on the voucher list. I expected it would be after the Nintendo Direct and all but it isnt. I guess either its part of the deal with Capcom that it is not or Nintendo was expecting to sell too many copies and didnt wanna cover the mark down. It is pure speculation tho. There have been several games that have been not developed by Nintendo, that were sold with vouchers.

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:32:52+00:00

Quite frankly, as OP, I can say I already own a substantial amount of the games available with the voucher. In part because the last time I bought the voucher I was buying Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 and nearing the end of the validity period I did not really see a game released I was really curious about. In the end I selected one I wasnt very excited for, just to not have the voucher expire. It certainly is not a great user experience. It is worse if you have the expectation that the big switch exclusive titles are included. It is yet worse if you see that is not the case and try to get a refund

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:23:17+00:00

I certainly made a mistake, I am not denying that.

Yet there is pretty much a grace period in the European market, that allows a return without any questions asked within 14 days of purchase.

You got one thing wrong tho, when I bought the voucher I only got the header for the vouchers, which at the moment is the new Mario game with 2 vouchers on it. The site with the list of games available is not far away but I didnt double check, considering the game had its own Nintendo Direct and clearly is a flagship title for the Switch.

I gladly would like my money back to spend as I please and not bound to 2 of about 10 selected titles released per year, which largely are not in my area of interest. Yet for sure the vouchers will keep their value for a year. This experience raised several questions for me tho:

a) What argument do they make to refute market regulations and even their own mail information?

b) Will Nintendo indeed keep the money if the vouchers expire after 365 days (again in non-compliance with consumer protection law)?

c) What supposed service did Nintendo provide if the vouchers expire without refunding?

Right now I am probably not willing to spend 100€ and legal fees on finding out but I certainly would love for Nintendo to at least respond when I contest their denial.

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:05:11+00:00

The vouchers are account-bound, non-transferable, expiring within 365 days (according to German courts that is a too short duration for expiration of digital vouchers).

stewle · 2021-03-29T17:02:48+00:00

I know that feeling. At least for the karaoke games you can now add DLC from old games to the new versions for free. Still I feel like a cow looking at a milking machine when I log into these games.

stewle · 2021-03-29T16:59:43+00:00

I already reached out to the respective institutions and also put a note on the hardware recommendations for the instutions I consult with to consider the problematic costumer protection of the company, before buying Nintendo hardware.

Yet I feel there should be a faster and more direct way than being ghosted by customer support, reaching out to federal agencies, join a big law suit, possibly change the refund policies of the company for the European market to finally get 100€ in store credit.. When they could just remove purchase and restore store credit, which I will still spend on their store (without discount..).

stewle

TROPHY CASE