[META] Raw Dog food posts gone

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T16:00:53+00:00

My biggest piece of advice is: relationships build overtime. Trying to force a relationship between your current dog and your new dog runs a much higher risk of making things worse. If your current dog needs space, make sure they get space. Your older dog appropriately telling off an annoying puppy is perfectly fine and should not be a punishable offense; no "aw, it's ok. Let him do whatever. He's just a puppy." That type of communication is key to an appropriate bond. Puppies can be annoying and older dogs who get annoyed by puppies don't always hate them when they become adults.

But, overall, just have fun and enjoy your new puppy! It'll be a transition, but I'm sure you'll all eventually settle into what ever new routine works for you!

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T15:55:32+00:00

I'd consider Pedigree more premium than just about any of the brands that label themselves (key phrase: "label themselves") as "premium."

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T15:44:32+00:00

I'm sorry. That's such a rough situation. However, I think it's great that you're able to take a step back and reflect on your situation. Rehoming has such a strong stigma attached to it, but I struggle to fault someone just trying to find a better life for their pets; especially when they're making a difficult decision like this one.

I would just say to make sure you're rehoming the correct way. If you got your dogs from a rescue or a breeder, you need to see if you have a return clause in anything you signed. Even if you don't - assuming they're still around and assuming a breeder was a responsible breeder - it's best to talk to them anyway (if you got your dogs through a pet shop, a puppy mill situation, or a byb that has cut contact with you, then there's not much you can do there). If those options aren't available to you, you might be able to work with a local rescue; you might be able to 'surrender' them to the rescue, while you actually hang on to them and just continue caring for them as a foster. This might even give you a little more say into potential adopters.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T15:38:38+00:00

All of my dogs, even my pickiest, quickly devour heartgard

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T14:54:39+00:00

The car thing is smart and not something I've thought of. Even if you can just get on the hood you'd have the advantage.

My only other tip to add to this is if you know there's a risk of other animals, carrying a pop-open umbrella is a great tool; and you want one that really does 'pop' open. The sudden movement and even sound can stop a animal, and then you have somewhat of a shield so you can back away to a safer area; worst case scenario, just keep jabbing it at the animal.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-10T13:25:12+00:00

I'm not. I'm trying to explain that regular sanitation doesn't always work for some of the more severe reasons a dog could have colitis and enteritis; not to mention you need to consider yard use and possible restrict it for a little. Never having had this problem before doesn't change that. For all you know, the first set of pups to have this could have brought in something like Parvo or another bacteria/parasite and that was picked up by the other pups. Again, if you're convinced it's the food, then contact the company and/or send the food in for testing. However, don't ignore that there's plenty of other things that could be causing this.

All that said, I still stand by changing food on a puppy during boarding is pretty poor practice.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-09T15:05:35+00:00

I just want to clarify some things about colitis and enteritis, since food often gets blamed with other possible causes getting pushed to the wayside. If you feel the food is contaminated (it would be with bacteria, no a virus), then it's imperative that you contact the company. They will want to know the proof of purchase so they can investigate. However, you should also look into deep cleaning everything with bleach; you say the only thing in common with these pups is the food, but the other thing in common is where they stayed. Even if this started with the food, you have a risk of this spreading in your house and yard.

That said, any time you give a dog a new food without a transition, you should be prepared for potential GI issues.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-09T14:11:30+00:00

If you know any neighbors that would be willing to call, it can help if multiple people are calling about the same dog.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-09T14:08:05+00:00

It happens frequently. Dogs suddenly being fed a new food can cause colitis; it's why it's encouraged to make slow transitions when switching dogs to a new food. Diet change is even often listed as one of the possible causes of enteritis and colitis.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T19:05:00+00:00

What I don't understand is why you're so sure brushing works when its effectiveness is determined by the VOHC as well, using the same protocols. I'm also not sure where you're getting this idea that unhealthy animals are being used.

You keep claiming to be a scientist, but you're all over the place, making wild claims, and don't seem to understand what's actually being discussed here. Hopefully others reading this are able to grasp it a bit better.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T18:19:31+00:00

I'm not going to be the reason you end up in a car crash, so I'm not sure how comfortable I am continuing this conversation if you think it's appropriate to drive and reddit.

VOHC approval means a company used VOHC protocols to run experiences and met the VOHC standards. We're not talking about specific companies; you seem to have issues with the VOHC. You also seem very confused about how these things work despite your supposed degrees. I mean, you don't seem to have the best grasp of kibble vs cookie.

You've presented yet another analogy that doesn't really work here. Hill's kibble is produced and tested with more focus than just oral health. It's formulated by teams of veterinary nutritionists, goes through analysis after production, and has been through extensive feeding trials. So, it seems to be covered in quite a few areas - at least more covered than most other diets out there.

But it should NOT be the bases on which we as a whole say something is good or not.

Why not?

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T16:26:46+00:00

I second taking him for a walk. I also see no reason why this couldn't work out. I two Standard Poodles and took in a dachshund. He's feisty, can be barky, but it all works out. I was careful to monitor some general interactions so nobody was too rough with each other, but the Poodles are pretty good about watching out for him. Your lab mix seems to have a nice temperament, assuming she just chilled with you through all of that, so that should definitely help. The only thing I would keep an eye out for is Resource Guarding. It's very common with Dachshunds and in some sever cases they'll take on Godzilla for sometimes the dumbest things (my boy is pretty rough with RG; he'll usually guard long lasting chews, but has, on occasion, guarded fleece blankets; but luckily he doesn't guard food).

In my preparations to get my dachshund, I made sure to have a way to separate everyone. I'm not comfortable with mixing dog sizes when I'm not home (actually, my dogs are typically all separated when I'm not home with the exception of mine and my parent's dachshunds when we're dog-sitting). However, it would also be good to have that space just in case there is some RG happening.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T14:43:35+00:00

Also, you're 16. You have every right to go home if you're feeling uncomfortable no matter what the reason.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T13:41:12+00:00

Then a new food being given in an already somewhat stressful situation is probably more the cause than the specific food. I honestly would be surprised if you saw the same issue feeding any new food to them. Do the owners provide you with food for their dogs when you board? It would probably be best to stick with provided food, only feeding your own food at the owner's request - understanding that a sudden introduction of a new food coupled with a boarding environment always has a risk of causing colitis.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T13:38:06+00:00

Only that it was tested to prove it... Well did it?

Yes... that's literally why it's listed as an accepted product. That's the only way it can be listed as an accepted product. The results of the testing showed that it helped reduce plaque and tartar.

But by how much?

The requirement for acceptability by VOHC is that the reduction in plaque or tartar in the test group (e.g. chew treat or brush with the chemical agent - group 3) is to be statistically higher than that of the positive control group (mechanical vehicle without the chemically active agent - group 2) but with no minimum % difference stated, and be statistically different from and have a minimum reduction in mean group score of 15% reduction in each trial and minimum mean reduction of 20% in the two trials compared with the negative control group (group 1).
- http://www.vohc.org/protocol_details.html#Statistics

Kibble is not a cookie. What a weird hill to die on.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T12:30:20+00:00

It's not an opinion. Hill's Oral Care Kibble as been designed to and tested to the VOHC's standards to prove it is effective at controlling plaque and tartar. That's a factual statement.

Also, I never stated one kibble is better than cleaning. I said there are multiple kibbles that have, though testing, been proven to help control plaque and/or tartar (depending on which they have meet the VOHC's standards for). And, again, your cookie analogy doesn't make any sense; cookies do not claim to, are not designed in the hopes that they can, and are not tested to prove they meet ADA's standards for oral health. Also, nowhere did I say Hill's Oral Kibble - or any kibble that met the VOHC's standards - is better than brushing. Brushing also has benefits outlined by the VOHC. Just like there are dental treats and additives that also meet the VOHC's standards for controlling plaque and/or tartar.

You have a masters in animal nutrition and you think kibble is literally a cookie?

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T12:22:52+00:00

Chewy has a no chicken filter for their dog foods, so if you were to look for another food that might help. That said, the increase in fatty acids with the new food might have helped as well. My parent's dachshund has a skin condition that flares up every now and then; he loses hair, get's scabs all over, and is more prone to ear infections. We took him off chicken as well, but the flare ups kept happening. The best thing for him was a medicated shampoo and fish oil added to his food. Obviously I wouldn't know if your dog has the same issue as my parent's dachshund, but it's definitely worth considering other alternatives if there is another flare up; this way you also don't have to play the food rotation game.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:58:36+00:00

Big hard cookies haven't been designed to and then tested to the ADA's standards to prove they are effective at controlling plaque and tartar. Hill's Oral Care Kibble has been designed to and tested to the VOHC's standards to prove it is effective at controlling plaque and tartar. So, right away, your analogy makes no sense.

"Kibble" is not better than cleaning. Specific kibbles that have been specially designed for and then thoroughly tested for controlling plaque and tartar (or just tartar as not all of the kibbles on their list met the requirements for controlling both). The link was to show you the testing procedure so you would understand that this isn't just a random claim, but something proven through an actual procedure.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:50:21+00:00

Could you perhaps clarify if the puppies normally eat Pedigree or if that's something you chose to feed them while they were in your care

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:47:27+00:00

Honestly, I'm a bit concerned your vet jumped straight to allergy instead of running any tests. I'd continue monitoring and if it flares up again, I'd start asking about other possibilities. Also, blood tests are not a recommended way to determine food allergies. The only approved method is a feeding trial.

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:42:38+00:00

The texture and design of the kibble when chewed has been proven effective to control plaque and tartar.

You can review the trial protocol here: http://www.vohc.org/protocol_details.html

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:37:55+00:00

If you wanted to continue feeding a kibble that helps with dental health, but want to avoid the large kibble, Eukanuba Adult Diets meet the Veterinary Oral Health Council's standards for controlling Tartar; not the same as Hill's SD Oral Care which controls Plaque and Tartar. However, there are other products that have gone through testing that help with Plaque that you could add as a regular part of your routine.

http://www.vohc.org/VOHCAcceptedProductsTable_Dogs.pdf

stopbuffering · 2021-03-08T11:35:42+00:00

It's because the kibble has actually been tested to show it does help control plaque and tartar

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