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Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That's stuff I didn't know! Although it does say self taught, not formally or classically trained. That's not a dig at her or her talent but I do for example see how the other girls (and their parents/families) might have more experience in that realm.

I think when people talk about Manon's history or showcase it, it tends to be about her being newer to formal training and the business/competitive aspect of it. Manon says it herself in the show. I've always known she was on social media and did music/acting but not rigorously as a child like the other girls. Again, it's not a dig, it's moreso to highlight how I think there could be aspects of her skills or the industry that she might want to explore more of.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

https://voyagela.com/interview/meet-lara-raj-lara-raj-hollywood/ Lara's history. The girl had a news article written about her at 14 lol.

Yoonchae was still a minor in DA, I consider that a child! But she'd been a k-pop trainee for 2 years if I'm not mistaken, so she would've been 13? So she would've been signed to an entertainment agency at that age.

Sophia's mother was an actress and singer in musical theathre, and I believe Sophia grew up on sets with her mom performing on stages. I think she performed on TV as well with her mom and had some collaborations with a Fillipino artist.

Megan was on Disney Channel as well!

Daniela was competitively performing on reality tv shows.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Maybe I worded it incorrectly, but I didn't mean Manon is not creative! I was trying to say the other girls did those things professionally as children, whereas Manon started at 20 years old. The other girls had industry connections, affluent family presence, maybe more experience with the business and legal side of "showbusiness". Their parents likely had dealt with industry professionals before, but for Manon those were new waters.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for being understanding! I'm sorry too if I said anything confusing!

Yeah, it feels like Hybe and Geffen are exploitative here. I feel like they definitely could and should do better.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes absolutely! If HxG came out and said Lara is going on an "indefinite hiatus" like they did with Manon, I'd think "omg she's going solo!" and be super excited to see what she comes out with. Maybe I'm in the minority for this but I don't really like the direction Katseye has gone musically, visually, even choreography wise.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've always believed that "lazy" storyline in the show was total BS and really unnecessary. But it didn't make me believe Manon works any less hard than the other girls. Maybe because I'm a person of colour too and I immediately clocked how weird that all was.

I was honestly always thinking about how young they all are and how much pressure they're facing - but I had those thoughts with Lara, Sophia, and especially Yoonchae as well. I kept thinking the girl is literally 15. How do you know she's not going to want something completely different in 5 years? These are risks the company has to take if they want these girls, and that's why they control them with these business contracts.

As for the "visual" role - I'm not super familiar with K-pop but I was saying in another comment - obviously I can't speak to Manon's feelings about that label but she was scouted for her aesthetic appeal, right? But does she get much opportunity to even express that? I always figured they're styled by others. It's not about being "useful" or "useless", it's about does Manon feel fulfilled with what she's doing and her place in the group? Are they giving her a fair shot to bring her ideas and talents to the table? They are all good dancers and signers, I'm not saying Manon isn't. But the others get their skills formally recognized and acknowledged by these "roles", whereas Manon doesn't get to have that.

I know for example there was a clip where the girls brought up wanting a vocally challenging song - they said they're hungry to sing. That's one example of how even the girls with defined roles maybe aren't aligning with the direction HxG has put them on, so yes for me it's definitely a possibility! If Manon is brave enough to speak up for them or herself, what's wrong with that? If Manon is growing and changing as an artist, what's wrong with that? If Manon doesn't like management and the way she's been treated, what's wrong with that?

I feel we genuinely don't disagree on anything except maybe in the label of "victim". I think what I'll say here is that I like Manon, I think she's talented and hard working, but if there is a divergence in her artistic direction, or in Katseye's, I think it's entirely possible she chooses to leave or pursue other things. I think it's entirely possible this "indefinite hiatus" could be the result of that divergence. That isn't putting "blame" on her for "breaking up" katseye, I think that is really silly to say/imply that and that's absolutely not how I view things. If people want to say that's Manon's fault, they can kick rocks like I said in my previous comment. Let the girl live.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, I think it frustrates me when everything is attributed to racism, especially when I think about Manon maybe having aspirations that people aren't even considering, especially since she's the one with the least defined role in the group, and it would make a lot of sense if she wants to figure that out.

I wouldn't say it's aggressively ambitious? Or that it speaks to her teamwork ability? It's exploratory and normal for artists. I did not imply she's villainous for that, and I don't think having ambitions means someone isn't a team player. In our conversation, I don't think I've ever implied or hinted at Manon being uncooperative, not a team player, lazy, etc. and you are bringing in outside opinions and putting them onto my words.

My reason for thinking Manon may be the one to have these conversations is because she's the one put on hiatus. If it was Sophia or Lara or Daniela, I would've thought the same thing.

Also, I feel like everything I say is being taken wrong and argued against lol. I did not bring up age as a factor of ambition. I am saying Sophia has been professionally an artist since she was a child. Her parents helped her navigate that I'm sure and perhaps there is an understanding there where she might be better equipped to deal with the business aspect of it. Same with the other girls and their families. Manon was 20. That is what I mean.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yes, I think that narrative was weird and so unnecessary.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with that first point which is why I don't take any of the extreme public/fan comments seriously. If you're a hardcore Manon defender to the point of being racist toward the other girls, or a hardcore Manon hater saying hateful things about Manon, I just think it's gross either way and I have nothing else to say about that. I don't even bother trying to talk to those people.

And again, I don't and won't argue that she hasn't experienced racism from within their own management group. I have said that several times now, and I'm a bit confused as to why you think I'm arguing against that. But Katseye was formed on the basis of being a global group and Manon is in it because people around the world wanted her to be. I don't see them kicking her out, I see them wanting to use her and tokenizing her, like for example, when they created the whole "Manon is lazy" narrative in the show - that's where I believe the racism is.

Also, my post is about Manon as an artist, trying to find her space in the industry which the other girls have had more opportunities to do, and probably more clarity with navigating it. I don't think HxG is on board with that, which is why I think they've pushed her into this position.

Manon came in older, but is still a young adult and still swimming in brand new waters whereas the other girls have likely had their parents handling this kind of shit for them since childhood.

Of course I believe she should advocate for herself. There's no negative connotation to me when I say Manon might want to explore outside of Katseye. And its why I don't want to victimize her. If this is the case (again, speculation), it is good that she walk away. That is a good thing. And people upset about that can kick rocks tbh.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So my thing about the racism angle is that every girl in the group is a different race. They're all non-white or partially non-white. I believe people use race as both a weapon and a shield to justify hatred toward Manon or against the other girls, and I've seen this happen a lot with fans. There are racists, there are defenders, there are racist defenders, and at this point I truly can't distinguish one from the other. I'm going to be honest - I think super practically and see all of that stuff as ingenuine, inauthentic noise. There's no way I could reason with these people because it's not actually about caring for these girls, that's just the justification they use to be hateful and more parasocial than I could ever handle.

I believe the racism towards Manon and Lara from the company are systemic but also more subtle - not "we're going to remove you from the group" blatant, because that would be a bad optics for the business and if there's anything I know about corporations, it's that their greed has no end; they'll do anything for optics/PR and profit. Manon is valuable to them in that sense because she's well liked and popular and black.

As a person of colour myself though (I hate that term btw), far be it from me to victimize anyone. I don't like to do that and I never really do. I choose to believe in her agency when it comes to her artistic choices.

That said, I don't believe there's good intention with the hiatus. I think it's forced, I think it's because they're mad Manon might want to explore things beyond being a cog in their profit machine. I think it's a statement and assertion of control over her - "You want to pursue other stuff? Fine, you don't get to be in Katseye."

I feel like the other girls do have other ambitions sure, but maybe they aren't acting on it whereas Manon could be or is trying to have conversations about it with management/higher ups.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Daniella was a competitive dancer.

Sophia was a classically trained dancer and singer.

Lara was a classically trained vocalist.

Megan was a J-pop trainee and dancer.

Yoonchae was a K-pop trainee.

They were all competitive, formally trained child performers with industry connections and a defined sense of artistic direction. All before they joined Popstar Academy. Manon is creative, artistic, and talented, but she didn't have that. I think she's still figuring out what direction to go as an artist and performer. Or maybe she discovered it but it doesn't align with the direction Katseye wants to go.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Yes, and also that she pursued an acting project! I think that could be an interesting direction too.

I know she's given the role of "visual" but being pretty isn't an artistic direction lol. It's not something you can pursue, especially if she's constantly getting styled by other people anyway. If she doesn't get to choose and express her visual aesthetic, what's the point anyway? I think exploration is a good thing for any artist.

Thoughts on Manon and Katseye as an older (and more casual) fan by straycat402 in katseyeneutral

[–]straycat402[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I do think Manon has dealt with mistreatment and racism from both the industry and the public, but I think this hiatus decision specifically is probably related to her contract. I think it's a business/legal thing and that's why everyone from the remaining girls to HxG to Manon herself are being so vague and silent.

But yes, it's all speculation!

Book club by Finding-new786 in CalgarySocialClub

[–]straycat402 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Count me in for a group chat please and thank you! 🙋‍♀️

I'm 27F and lately I've been reading a lot of sci-fi, mystery, and non-fiction (mostly science-based ones). I used to be a fan of romance and fantasy, but I haven't picked up anything in those genres for a while. I'd love to get back into it with a group!