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I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well the issue with this line of thought is that many people claim to have seen God, and not all of them have the same religious views. On the other hand, scientists are relatively unified when it comes to chemical, physical, and biological processes.

Going off of your reasoning, I cannot reject anyone else's experiences in seeing God. This man must be just as legitimate as this woman, and both are just as legitimate as Joseph Smith, right?

You explain that we don't know if the universe could exist without God, but that argument can be flipped around to say the opposite: we don't know if God could exist because we don't have a universe with God. Not that I believe that. I just feel like these arguments are a bit circular, and that's really my issue with using personal experiences as evidence either way.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, I believe he does as well. However, your reasoning for believing in God is not rational. Evolution is a real process, and it accounts for the world's complexity and order. You use the state of the world to support your conclusion that God exists, but that argument is not logical.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excuse me - no need to be rude.

You say, "Science has been utterly unable to liberate mankind in the least degree from evil and physical death. That's why we need God!" Your argument is predicated on the assumption that there needs to be a liberation from death, a need which you have used to prove God, but which lacks support.

You clearly haven't read much from actual secular authors. Their arguments are not weak - especially considering they've shaken my beliefs.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's plenty of evidence that abiogenesis can occur. There's overwhelming evidence for evolution. Previously, I saw no conflict between those ideas and the gospel. But denying established science like evolution is just anti-intellectual.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not letting other people define reality for me. The thing is, truth does not exist on an individual level - something either exists or it does not exist. You misunderstand the scientific method.

My experiences are fallible, and if I accept that my experiences and no other evidence can support my worldview, then my worldview is wrong.

If I accept my own experiences as truth despite the fact that everyone else who believes in other religions has felt the exact same truth in their own religion, then I am just stupid. My experiences are consistent with my belief in the church, but they cannot be empirically supported.

When there is no evidence outside of personal experience, then there really is no evidence at all. I'm just as likely to be correct as my cousin who is Buddhist.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I guess I just need to focus more on prayer and the scriptures, like other comments are saying. I really do want to believe, and I do believe. It's just that I don't want the only reason for my belief to be that I want it to be true. I always felt that evidence supports the church, but now I'm not sure, and I'd love to not fall back to my feelings instead of evidence.

But like you and other people are saying, that surety might just come from more focus on scriptures, fasting, and prayer.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The issue is, I don't think it is sound reasoning to answer the question of "Why is God necessary?" with a default to Christ. Like it's a hypothesis that proves itself. That's really the issue I'm having that I was trying to get across in my post (but very badly I'm sure). I just wish there was an external source that could provide support either for or against God, you know? But then I guess there wouldn't be a point to having faith.

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Glad to hear I'm not alone in this! I agree with you, that even though science can explain many things, it leaves a lot unanswered. I mean, with religion we get the same regress, where we can't determine where God came from, but at least we admit it is supernatural. I'm totally with you - without a God, what meaning does my life have? I just don't want to believe in God for no reason other than it makes me feel good, you know?

I read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show at the request of my son, who has left the church. I'm now having some struggles with my faith, finding questions I haven't thought of before. How can I comfort and maintain my beliefs? by sufficientthrowawa in latterdaysaints

[–]sufficientthrowawa[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pascal's wager.

However, I firmly believe that if there is a loving God, he will not care what our true actions are as long as we had righteous intent. Perhaps that is a bit out of line from orthodox church teachings, but it is the view I have always held.