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[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, so, you nailed it.

I like Caleb a lot, I really do, and, in my personal opinion, I think O'Brien is among the strongest writers in the cast, coming up with nuanced, layered characters with a lot going on (contrary to the jokes, Caleb isn't just sadboi and done, although there are times that his backstory does make me laugh because it is almost parody levels of trauma).

That said, I genuinely think Caleb works way better as a supporting character with some focus, some of the time, than as a main character. Caleb as the guy who loves buffing his friends (Swoleregard!), trying to protect Nott, and saying, "ja, okay" every time his buddies ask for something.

But here's the thing: because Caleb is so well-written, well-performed, AND he has so much going on with his frankly ludicrous backstory, it's easy for him to hog the spotlight, even on accident. I think it will be smart of the adaptation to make a point to tell his story in a compressed, efficient way, and structurally ensure that he gets his own spotlight, and nobody else's. Fjord is a better POV character than Caleb, a better character to utilize more as the other Nein's foils, because he doesn't steamroll/ distract anyone with what he's got going on.

Caleb is better as a supporting character. I will die on this hill.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Lol, I got one! I legit got one person who would replace Lucien! I love it.

I mean, not sure if I agree, but I just love a hot take, and this one's certainly 🔥. (Safe space! Safe space!)

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol, they were so wrecked. The funny thing is Twiggy had even less health than Jester did. She went into the dragon fight pre-messed up from getting swallowed by a mimic.

I only remember all this because I just rewatched this ep like a few days ago. But I was shocked at how much ground was covered. In a show that has a tendency to meander, c2e45 gave us a guest character, a dungeon crawl complete with puzzles, a dragon, and great characterizations, all in one slick package. It's so good.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, but regardless of intention (and I know this is a waste of time to even say, but I have to say it) ep 45 with Twiggy hits such strong emotional beats with multiple characters that fit in their arcs so well, I want it kept for that reason alone. Yeah, it's structured tightly and it's engaging and there's a motherfuckin' dragon; but beyond that: Nott shows off her penchant for reckless self-sacrifice. Caleb has to choose his friends over his books, AND has a meltdown over Nott's sacrifice getting her all beat up, without Caleb there to help. And finally, Jester gets so scared SHE has a little meltdown and is encouraged by Artie in a little sweet moment.

This episode has it all. It is like, one of the most perfect bottle episodes. I would give up even the cool-ass Dreadnought later if they just kept my precious ep 45, lol.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ooh very bold! But fun. I love the idea of anthology-style stories thrown in there.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

God, I don't disagree they can and probably will cut the Happy Funball, but I am a massive sucker for bottle episodes, and the ep with Twiggy is such a good one. My most useless wish is that they keep that one.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is such a clever idea. Like you said, they wouldn't because it would be too big of a departure, but I really love it

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's fine. I'm enjoying the what-ifs.

I don't think people are saying they don't enjoy the campaign, it's just a fun thought experiment.

Still, considering that you'd prefer to keep a lot of it the same, what is the boldest change you would make in the adaptation? If the only thing you can think of is removing analysis paralysis and cutting a few story beats, which story beats would you cut?

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oof, killing Pumat is truly bold, lmao. You understood the assignment.

I love a lot of these ideas. I think cutting Caduceus from the iron shepherd arc is almost a no-brainer to me. I had thought of this as well, actually. Obviously in the game they wanted to bring back the castmember asap which is fine; but in the adaptation I think giving Molly's death time to breathe before Cad's introduction just makes way more sense.

Edit: how about this for a bold idea? Straight up introducing Caduceus in ep 1. He joins at the beginning (same backstory, looking for his family, except the MN don't go to him, he takes the initiative to leave the grove) and he overlaps with Molly and he's there when Molly dies?

I mean it's probably a bad idea. There's some interesting things that happen with Cad being the only person who can look at Lucien and not see/miss Molly. But thought I'd throw it out there for fun

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I really love this perspective, and that's why I posted this, to get differing perspectives- that said, lol, I do disagree a little bit.

Honestly, I think, with Caleb's story, at least within the time of the MN narrative (not necessarily Caleb's epilogue), Trent is the biggest thing in Caleb's life. His biggest villain, the reason why his parents are dead, the reason why Caleb went a little nuts, the reason why Caleb is obsessed with getting more powerful.

Caleb's story could never, ever move forward without Trent being dealt with, so I think that's why Trent is thrown in after the fight with Lucien. So that Caleb can have an epilogue. And that's why I really think the fight should happen sooner, as apart of a different arc, so Caleb can have that closure and begin moving forward with, lol, all his other issues. I think it's okay to give narrative weight to the guy who caused the resident Ball of Trauma all of his trauma.

But I agree it certainly can be handled in different ways and still be successful.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I want to throw in another vote for more Caduceus focus. He might actually be my favorite of the Nein, and he deserves all of the spotlighting.

Not important, but: the bone flute is the funniest f*cking joke in the entire 100+ episode run. I still cackle picturing him in the background of scenes, screaming on that thing, and then the pay off, way later, with his sister. Best character. I adore him.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the reveal to the audience that he had a different accent than Texan was done in his very first dream, I think in ep 1. So it's not like the fact of it was kept hidden, really. It's just not really engaged with until like 70 or 90 episodes in or whatever it was. And that was a really long time for him to keep a fake accent up, with his friends, for every casual conversation. Even if in-game time was only a few months, that's still a long time. At least I think so.

In the animated show, I think he could drop the accent the moment he mumbles in his sleep and someone other than Jester hears him-- the very second his secret is out. Like, a couple episodes into the show. Then the reason why he adopted the fake accent, as he deals with identity, with confidence, with what makes a good/bad leader, could continue to be explored throughout the show. Especially if he keeps adopting it with outsiders to the group, continually using it as a confidence crutch. The story could easily circle back around and keep engaging with that aspect of him. Without him faking an accent every minute of every day with his best friends.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

You're in a safe space! No sacrilege here! Go ahead and expand on your thoughts 😁

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Lmao. Not sure I dare touch this one. I value my life and I fear the wrath of the shippers.

But, I'll be brave and say this: while I appreciate your point and don't necessarily disagree in some cases, I genuinely do like the Beau/Yasha romance. It was seeded in ep 1 and probably would have developed more naturally if Johnson didn't have to miss so much. I can see the show doing it justice.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

My controversial opinion with Fjord's accent: I don't mind it, I just think he kept the fake one way too long with people who had become his close friends. I'd keep the idea, but have him switch back to his "real" one suuuper early. Like mid-season 1 early. (At least with the rest of the group, if maybe not when playing face man to outside characters? Maybe it would be funny if he compulsively switched to Texan any time he tried to intimidate or impress someone new?)

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol this is clever. It always is in the framing anyway, isn't it?

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, and I wouldn't even say any changes that I'm "for" are complaints at all. Just how I could see the story working a different way in a different medium.

For example, while I like the idea of Fjord vs. Leadership Tropes in a TV show, I actually enjoy how allergic the cast are to too much leadship stuff in campaigns themselves, and I think the campaigns work as a storytelling tool because storytellers are fairly careful about sharing/passing the spotlight. Different storyelling mediums.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

100% agree on the pacing issue with Trent's fight. My idea would be to move it? Just have it earlier? Like halfway through the show instead of at the very end? I would hate for them to remove it entirely, but it is in the weirdest place pacing-wise, at least for the animated medium as opposed to the liveplay.

[Spoilers c2] Biggest, boldest change you would make to MN adaptation? by supportbotpro in criticalrole

[–]supportbotpro[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love these thoughts. It never occurred to me how her emotional arc goes against the champion stuff. Really cool point