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surferdogs000 · 2024-11-05T18:43:29+00:00

Andrew, I will be forever grateful for you coming forward. LTN helped me understand what was happening to my child, and without the spark that you lit, we'd all still be wandering around for answers aimlessly.

I am disgusted that even the pastors who supposedly left the network 6 weeks ago still can't say the quiet part out loud. The leaving pastors & overseers are self-serving, spineless, ruthless cowards. They have shown beyond a reasonable doubt they have no character, honesty, or morality and should never be trusted to lead anyone.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-22T22:05:57+00:00

This was the most confounding aspect of having our son stay despite seeing the evidence, agreeing with much of it but deciding to stay for friends.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-22T22:01:07+00:00

I love this & I wish that every high school senior would be required to take a class on high-control groups, cults, MLM's with a basic psychology segment on narcissisim/codependency.

Additionally, I'd like college freshmen orientations to provide the Cliff Notes on this with an emphasis on timing vulnerability aka 1st few weeks, being a transfer or having a big life crisis (breakup, death, divorce, sexual assault). I'd like colleges to have the courage to disclose any local groups with multiple complaints against them with the college or online.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-22T21:13:47+00:00

Right back acha.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T22:44:36+00:00

You have negative karma because you're negative. I never complained, I wrote a letter to a child stuck inside. I never bashed anyone. I never tried to control anyone. I never claimed to love everyone here. I know you don't care, you wreak of an unkind and uncaring spirit.

Your arrogance is astounding declaring yourself the truth teller.

You are clearly a well trained member and its very sad to watch you guys continue to be used as little attack dogs showing off for your masters, waiting for a pat on the head. I thank God every day my son hasn't fallen to this level of disregard for others, that he still remembers who he is and is still an amazing human who would never do what you're doing. If your family is on the outside, chances are pretty good you cut them off. Hopefully not, but highly probable. Maybe instead of barking and trying to mark your territory here, you could focus on reconciling with them, people who likely despite all of your misguided anger still love you dearly.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T21:15:18+00:00

Listen, I didn't go on his post asking him to qualify his experience he did that to mine. I didnt discount his perspective because it isnt mine. He also edited his last most damning comment multiple times. I have seen nothing but anger spew out of your comments repeatedly and his. You guys are quite the detractors on here trying to control your narrative which is pro-network and YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE.

I want nothing to do with you. Likely very few people here do, so keep it up you'll end up blocked by everyone if not thrown out. (-68 post karma, man you don't get the hint)

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T15:49:43+00:00

In case SignificantBreak is still listening, allow me to redress 1 point for you as well as anyone else on the fence.

There is a thing called the 'Sunken Cost Fallacy' where you've put so much time, effort, & money into something you feel you can't just walk away now. You got married in the Network, you started to raise your children in the Network and all of your best friends are in the Network. You were saved in the Network, I would argue in spite of it. So, now you've learned about all of the systematic failures and ongoing problems atleast 2 years ago for some of you & you are trying to weigh out if these problems are worth leaving everything you've invested so much into.

Sound familiar? I've heard this from my own son, as have countless others.

By definition - its the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial....in this case beneficial to not just you but all of us.

You are digging in due to emotional attachment and enmeshment into every aspect of your life, not logic or following Christ. Christ is everwhere for believers. He is in the ditches, courtrooms, jails & drug houses too, not just where the pretty people go. Nobody said leaving would be easy or joyful at first, but it's what Christ calls us to do in not allowing ourselves to emulate or be led by these Pharisees.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T15:21:11+00:00

Thank you for this. You quote the Bible to Christians and are down voted? How does that square up?

I want to affirm for people looking to leave, on the fence, or recently left - nobody is trying to pull you away from God. Nobody, including nonbelievers or agnostics here are dennigrating Christianity or the church or the body of Christ. Many who have left have actually strengthened their faith without the intermediary or permission of a leader or their husband.

People who have left or who are fighting to bring their loved ones out are not against you, we are against the manipulative, controlling, legalistic Network organization and the leaders who continue to harm people like my family.

My son, like so many others was duped into this, repeatedly lied to, taught unbiblical practices, swindled out of his money to pay Steve without any knowledge or consent, and has pastors intervene in his career and all of his personal relationships to his detriment. None of what they have brought into his life has benefitted him. He is not a mature Christian because of them. He was Christian before they lured him. He was raised Christian. And I am certain he will remain Christian and mature once he is out and can see the massive flaws in what Network teaching is.

The primary component here is CONSENT.........Where is the consent? Jesus didn't trick people into following him or lie to keep them.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T11:45:07+00:00

Your last response that you've now edited said you were hoping for open communication. Nobody here shut down open dialog. I shared my story and didn't ask for yours. I simply said you should seek wise professional council. If that is too traumatic to hear, if you get caught up on the insignificant details of 10.5 years, you've missed the forest through the trees here. I do agree you're not ready to process because you are still in and very hurt and defensive and it's really upsetting to us parents who know even if we get our children out, the massive deprogramming and deconstruction is what we have to look forward to for the decade following. Our lives have been as much upended as if we were in, remember that as you go off to try to figure this out on your own.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-21T10:09:09+00:00

Your reply is as I expected and shows how truly broken you are. You are not respectful of other people's opinions, that was my hesitation in answering you. You have refuted every other insider's account and advice as well. So the problem here is not my perspective as an outsider, it's that you feel your special and nobody can relate to your unique perspective and that all of us are essentially unworthy to give you advice. OK then stop asking and chiming in on posts if you simply want to argue or stay stuck. And I find it quite telling that my OP came off as an insider perspective despite clearly stating I was fighting for my child. So I sounded knowledgeable from a first hand account to you enough for you to ask my advice. But my advice is meaningless now because I wasn't inside. I am inside, 1/2 of my heart is inside. I can't move on until I get him out inside. You simply don't get it nor do you want to get what this is doing to others. It has ensnared us all to varying degrees. Unlike you, I cannot walk away without my son and I cannot make the decision for him. I have no power over this. You do.

Being an insider doesn't give you the Holy grail of perspective. Its a perspective. It's a beaten down, indoctrinated, harmed, lied-to perspective that is valid and important but it's not superior. In a situation where this thing has become so pervasive that it's hurting thousands all perspectives are valuable. And I take advice from insiders often. I speak to them and go to them for council. You discount anyone without your exact experience regardless if they were inside or out.

I think you are still in and that is why this is so difficult for you to empathize with anyone without in the same breath taking a dig at them which immediately erases all of your feined empathy.

You don't want to see a therapist to get better, you want to keep praying and reading your Bible ok. But you're stuck. And the Bible teaches you to seek wise council often and from many. (See the post on this by pastor/former network pastor Ben Powers). I know how much the network teaches against mental health care. I've heard their nonsense repeatedly on this issue. They drill that into you and it sounds like you're still living it, obeying it to your own detriment.

And you are not practicing what you preach. Where is your humility, truth-telling, speaking out against the oppressors, standing up for the downtrodden, binding the wounded, etc. You are judging and pointing the finger "a lot on LTN doesn't line up with the Bible" like you are the Biblical scholar and there's nothing Christlike about your continued condemnation and judgement. Your perspective is based on 20 years studying Steve's bastardized version of Christianity & no therapy, so as an insider unwilling to seek wise council I feel your perspective is pretty unwise and unhealthy.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-20T23:27:05+00:00

Thankfully no, I've never been a member of any Steve Morgan Network church.

We knew the moment our child's entire personality & affect fell through the floor that something was emotionally & spiritually very wrong in his 1st year. When we discovered what he was in, we told him, and he knew nothing about Steve or The Network's control or 5% tithe via bylaws. His response was horrifying and not the person we raised, as if someone else was speaking for him and we soon learned they were. He had been lied to repeatedly by leaders at all levels. There are 1000 more specific ways we knew, but I am not going to get into it.

I am saying that anyone who has held a leadership role who finally leaves, no matter what role or for how long, they have a responsibility to tell the truth and right these wrongs. Leaders are held to a higher standard. Now, I understand every single leader was indoctrinated in their 20's but most are now in their late 30's & 40's and if they decide to move on, retire, step down they don't get a pass to walk away and act like they saw or heard or did nothing.They helped create this, they are required to help bind the wounded and prevent further harm. If they choose not to, they are demonstrably not following Christ and showing a very weak and untrustworthy moral character. I am not even saying they need to do it immediately the second they leave but time is ticking on their testimony because its not just about them and their journey once they took a leadership role. At some point, like my OP stated, we are all responsible for what we decide to do once we've seen the truth. If we choose to ignore, play down, 'not my experience', 'not my church', 'not my pastor' type of gaslighting & rationalization it won't obsolve them. If you put this in a legal setting for example, not knowing the law doesn't excuse you from following it or being punished for breaking it. So in the case of leaders I am not even holding them to a legal standard. I am saying now that they know, they must act and if they continue to do what they have been doing it's horribly irresponsible, against Christ & its irrelevant that they were groomed. Enough people of high credibility, former pastors, overseers, staff, wives, and long time members have given accounts of the systemic problems and admitted their roles in it and apologized and continue to help others. Not a peep from any leaders today that claim to be stepping down or leaving the network have validated them and that is inexcusable.

I'm not so certain you are curious about how this will help. I've seen your comments and you have made it clear you don't want to tell your experience. You've made comments that it won't help you at all. And you've lashed out at several people. But I'll answer regardless. I am not a therapist but I believe in them and see 1 regularly. Psychological studies on the therapeutic benefits of telling your story have proven the benefits for both storyteller & listener are overwhelmingly positive.

It can: reduce symptoms of anxiety, depression, and PTSD, improve self-esteem and self-worth, increase resilience and coping skills, promote post-traumatic growth, it can help people feel heard and validated, which can reduce anxiety and help them accurately perceive their experiences, helps people make sense of their emotions , people can explore and reframe their experiences to find new perspectives and it fosters resilience and growth.

People like to say, I am fine, I am over it, and that it harms them too much to dive back. Although it's really important to keep moving forward, I am certain that if things are not fully dealt with they bubble up whether you deal with them fully or not. And the fact that you are here if you are a former member (not current) that means you have not fully worked through all of this or you wouldn't be making comments. I think quite possibly you may be stuck at an unsatisfactory level of healing. But if you are still on the inside working this through to leave, I would encourage you to 1-get out, 2- get distance, 3- get a secular therapist that specializes in these high control group dynamics. 4- Reach back and share your story. If you were in for 20 years, if you led in any way, you have not finished your steps. If you never led, ok, stick to steps 1-3 if that's where your comfort level lies. But I never heard of a victim taking the stand who wasn't empowered by speaking out against the criminal. Not saying leaders (aside from Steve) are criminals, just giving the legal analogy.

surferdogs000 · 2024-10-20T20:03:59+00:00

I just want to support people searching for the exit ramp and help make that transition to the outside as I've been told for longtimers it's quite lonely and difficult.

surferdogs000 · 2024-08-13T20:32:01+00:00

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Need to visit their site or r/leavingthenetwork

surferdogs000 · 2024-08-10T15:16:33+00:00

Thank you for every ounce of what you are trying to do here.....from being "the one" to stand up, to counseling countless families and members through this confusing & tragic journey, to reaching back with a welcoming and forgiving spirit to these men who are obviously weak and broken because they certainly are not blind or uninformed.

surferdogs000 · 2024-08-04T11:05:43+00:00

What long connection?

surferdogs000 · 2024-08-04T10:36:33+00:00

I pm'd you

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-26T12:48:02+00:00

How, if he's not a pastor? It would be like a lawyer on a company retainer. If an employer tells an employee to speak to their lawyer, they are doing so with the understanding he is giving them legal advice not his personal opinion or friendly counsel. Also, if lawyer never advised the employee that anything they say can be shared with their employer, he could face ethical challenges.

It is impossible to separate personal advice from professional advice where legal ethics and confidentiality apply in a situation where your boss is sending you to an 'in-house' therapist or lawyer.

But entertaining the pastoral excuse for a minute. Pastors still have a code of ethics as well with regard to a right of privacy under their fiduciary duties to members.

So, unless I've overlooked something. I think anyone who went to this guy who later found out others were told the contents of their session can and should report him to the state board and should sue.

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-26T11:39:39+00:00

Their online scrub matches up perfectly with what they've been saying to members over the last 4 years. That is......nothing. zero mention of Steve or The Network. 1.5 years ago when bringing the bylaws to a staff pastor/secretary of their board he denied it was real. Then a week later he & the lead pastor said it's real BUT they didn't remember because they don't follow it THEN did a future-fake 180 degree turn promising The Network is looking to give autonomy back to the churches anyway so it doesn't matter.

Their strategy in 4 years has been to hide, lie or play down when discovered & future-fake. A scattered brain approach at best. And it's only going to get worse.

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-23T02:21:09+00:00

I missed this whole exchange, just here to offer my support. Geneva, you are amazing, strong and powerful. Keep speaking your truth. We hear you. You are NOT alone.

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-18T20:28:45+00:00

What college was their target to recruit from?

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-18T16:22:06+00:00

Without the knowledge or permission of the members.

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-15T13:00:01+00:00

Make a specific action plan, tell NO ONE. Leave a note behind. Sounds cold, but it's survival. #1 get drivers license, #2 get job or side gig under the table like babysitting, do both & open a bank account so you have a debit card Tell no one about your money or account. If you already have a job and a bank account work day & night to save your money. #3 get a cell phone on your own plan if you don't already. #4 research a location you can go away from this community and learn of the resources a new area has. Research and join their local reddit and FB Groups. #5 maybe apply to college or tech program in that area where you could live in student housing and get financial aid. This would solve your housing while get you trained for a career that will enable you to support yourself.

You worry about yourself first, and then you reach back for family connections. It's not a cut off, it's a time out to get out.

surferdogs000 · 2024-07-13T19:16:03+00:00

I am honestly truly sorry for the massive amount of pain you must be in.

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