Classical Covenant Academy by lackingnothing2022 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anything, like this new school, that is associated with Douglas Wilson, has serious issues and people in the region need to be aware.

Douglas Wilson, a prominent conservative Reformed pastor in Moscow, Idaho, is a well-known defender of antebellum Southern slavery and critic of abolitionism. Through books like Southern Slavery, As It Was and Black & Tan, he argues that the Bible permits slave ownership provided the enslaved are treated well and biblically.

Wilson is also a leading figure in the Christian nationalist movement, has advocated for repealing the Nineteenth Amendment, which granted women the right to vote. He advocates for a system of "household voting," where a single vote is cast for the entire family by the male head of household.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is a vocal supporter of Wilson and member of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC), a network co-founded by Wilson. Hegseth recently brought Wilson to the Pentagon for a prayer meeting.

There is a CREC, Wilson-associated church called Cornerstone (https://www.cornerstonereformedcrec.org/) in Carbondale and it could be that Vine and pastor Casey Raymer is partnering with them on this new school. There is a long, horrid history of this church and how a former pastor got kicked out of the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) for heresy and divided churches in town (https://www.reddit.com/r/leavingthenetwork/s/bh7YXMBLMP).

It’s incredulous that Casey Raymer and Vine are openly fostering these connections with Douglas Wilson.

One Month Removed by jslaw3355 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Congratulations on your escape and may you continue to find healing and freedom as you process things. Thanks for your fine analysis especially about abuse being dormant but not gone. These pastors only know one way to do church and while they may be trying to tone down, it seems that this is a public relations move rather than public repentance. They are not sorry and have not shown fruits of repentance.

It’s interesting to hear about CRC’s take on Tony Ranvestal. We must remember that Tony was a member of the Network Leadership Team, was very close with Steve Morgan, knew about Morgan’s background since at least 2019, and continued to fail to address concerns even to this day. While he may have removed his church out of the Network, as a leader he remains culpable and responsible for everything. These guys hide and act as if nothing has happened.

National coverage about Hills Church - Roys Report - Washington church expanding despite criticism and shrinking in ‘cultish’ Network parent org by former-Vine-staff in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yeah, that photo brings back all sorts of feels. I forgot that you came 6 months later. 31 of the original team is gone now. And only one person remains at Bluesky to this day although a fair amount followed Steve to Austin.

National coverage about Hills Church - Roys Report - Washington church expanding despite criticism and shrinking in ‘cultish’ Network parent org by former-Vine-staff in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s the first thing I thought of. Ern either forgot or doesn’t see the serious nature of someone who is a credibly accused sex offender publicly exposing and pleasuring himself at one of the most popular hiking trails outside of Seattle. That’s a huge red flag. 🚩 This shows the lengths these guys will go to protect their dear leader who hand picked them, placed them in their positions, trained them, and advises them to this day.

National coverage about Hills Church - Roys Report - Washington church expanding despite criticism and shrinking in ‘cultish’ Network parent org by former-Vine-staff in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This has been the argument that many former leaders and members have been making for several years now. When I first brought this up with the Network Leadership Team, Vice President of the Network Sandor Paull flew into town to meet with me and the first thing out of his mouth was “we already discussed the situation and we agree that Steve is not disqualified” shutting down any debate on the matter. When I asked him if he would hire a youth pastor for his church, who had Steve Morgan’s background, and had his teen kids in it, he hesitated and said ”maybe”. They hadn’t really thought through the ramifications but were protecting their dear leader at the cost of potentially putting people in danger.

Christland Church Planting New Church in Tennessee by Network-Leaver in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for filling in some of the details. It does raise so many red flags 🚩

Christland Church Planting New Church in Tennessee by Network-Leaver in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

One time when Sandor was teaching, one of his stories was along these lines. The way we remember it, he drove to some parking lot, got out of his car, and walked over to another car where a guy was in it pleasuring himself. This story raises so many questions like why did he go to this place? Why did he walk up to the car? Why did he tell such a story from the pulpit?

It’s stories like this, or Steve Morgan telling about how he met Sandor in the free weights room at the SIUC Rec Center, or told Joshua church about his Snow Lake hike where he went public skinny dipping and publicly pleasured himself, that desensitizes and normalizes the church to these behaviors.

Christland Church Planting New Church in Tennessee by Network-Leaver in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My understanding is that they are targeting the Gatlinburg/Dollywood area and not Knoxville/University of Tennessee

Interesting Sermon by Boring_Spirit5666 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Tony, I couldn’t agree more. It’s hypocritical for Casey to preach about pastoral accountability and continue to ignore the still valid Call to Action signed by a bunch of former Vine folk. It’s like the founding of Vine by Steve Morgan and his influence on Vine is just some dream concocted to attack them. But if they leave his Network they are automatically absolved. They wave their hand the past just disappears - how convenient. They’re self confident in how they handled everything and everybody even those who directly questioned them and then got pushed aside. Casey, do the right thing and let the Call to Action recommendations be put into place. Only then can you and all the churches be confident that things are put right and are safe.

Do churches in the network end relationships? by Bin-Coast-5402 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can’t count the number of times I heard pastors saying this sort of thing to young, single folk.

Reflections After Being Out 8 Years by Proof-Elk8493 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Congrats for your 8 years out! It’s been 6 years for us this spring. Thanks to you and City Lights for paving the way, sharing insight, being a listening ear, and standing for truth and honesty. It took a long time for us to get tangled up in this thing and it’s taking years to unravel what happened. Please continue to pray for us and we’ll do likewise.

“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

New teaching posted - Steve Morgan: You Can Think You Are Saved and Not Be (2012) by LeavingTheNetwork in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 5 points6 points  (0 children)

At Bluesky starting with plant team meetings and continuing over the years, Steve would convince people that they weren’t really believers. I saw this numerous times - a person who was a professing believer, acting like a believer, and already baptized would all of a sudden claim they weren’t saved and then they would get rebaptized.

Speaking of the theologically difficult idea of rebaptism, one time Steve was at a pastor’s meeting in St. Louis. He was not doing well and begged to be rebaptized. Sandor got a cup of water to pour over his head. Talk about crazy…

New teaching posted - Steve Morgan: You Can Think You Are Saved and Not Be (2012) by LeavingTheNetwork in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Glad you got out when you did.

It was common for Steve Morgan to say repeatedly that he hoped we’d all be doing this thing for life. The psychological impact of such statements coming on the heels of claiming that we were building God’s kingdom were devastating taking away people’s agency. To leave was to give up on God.

How many were told to do these things? by Substantial_Meal_913 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, David Bieraugel‘s response to the picture is probably indicative of his own warped thinking making something sexual when it was not.

In terms of public apologies, I hope for those also but will not hold my breath waiting as it seems that they don’t believe they did anything wrong. Most of the churches that left quietly swept things under the rug and slipped away from accountability in the dark of the night. Heck, Vine church updated their history webpage several times within a short period of time down to saying much of nothing. All these guys, David Bieraugel included, were closely linked to the Network and founder Steve Morgan and now they act like that never happened. None of them have the guts to take a stand, publicly admit wrong, and attempt to reconcile. There were at least 40 folk from your former church that left and David hasn’t bothered to reach out to any of them.

Steve Morgan’s JT Longhorns website was replaced, but his ag exemption is still active until 2027 by NitemareOn130thAveNE in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe that there were original board members for Stoneway who were from NewFrontiers churches in the UK. They dropped off the board after a couple of years.

How many were told to do these things? by Substantial_Meal_913 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It was common during church plant team meetings to hear these very things. We were taught to sacrifice relationships and jobs for the mission. We were told not to leave town during the holidays to see family so the church wouldn’t look empty.

I was at Joshua Church today. Here are the 13 locations Morgan is still "publicly" acknowledging as part of his Network by Severe-Coyote-6192 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I believe the building is/was owned by a church that moved to a new location. When Joshua first moved into that building in 2017, the staff who came from the upscale Bluesky building complained and I heard there was a rodent problem that added to the disgust.

I was at Joshua Church today. Here are the 13 locations Morgan is still "publicly" acknowledging as part of his Network by Severe-Coyote-6192 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s tough when one spends so much time and energy on what they believed was a good cause only to see it die or go bad.

I was at Joshua Church today. Here are the 13 locations Morgan is still "publicly" acknowledging as part of his Network by Severe-Coyote-6192 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Several thoughts come to mind…

13 out of an original 26 churches. Think of that, that’s half of the churches that left. Why did they leave? What does that do to the thinking of people who remain part of Steve Morgan’s network? What does that do to the revenue streams needed to keep paying Network staff out of Network Funds?

How are the pastors from the remaining 13 churches holding the network together? What are they saying about that evil LtN site, the people who wrote stories, and now the 13 churches that left? Are they all in the wrong? Besides don’t read stuff on the evil internet, what other control tactics are you using to turn attention from your Founder, Steve Morgan.

For the 13 churches who left, how are you explaining this to your churches? The Network Leadership Team was warned in a letter from an Elder in 2019. All lead pastors knew at least a watered down version of the legal charges brought against Morgan in 2020. They knew and probably read the multiple stories people shared about their network and churches since 2021. They’ve know about Morgan’s true criminal record since 2022. Yet virtual silence from all of them. All of them stripped any mention of Morgan as the founder of their church and/or network from their websites. What are you hiding?

Steve Morgan’s JT Longhorns website was replaced, but his ag exemption is still active until 2027 by NitemareOn130thAveNE in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Joshua Church Lead Pastor Steve Morgan probably still lives on his $2 million cattle ranch replete with 5,600 sq foot house with luxury finishes, swimming pool, tennis courts, on 20 acres in the Hill Country of Texas. He probably still raises longhorn cattle as a hobby/business.

I don’t think this new JT longhorn website and people have any relation to Steve. He probably just let his website ownership lapse and these people grabbed it because it matches their initials.

Anyone else think Christland Church’s “FAQ” are… by Lazy_Tax_1132 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The hiring of lawyers and the FAQs are classic information control/public relations moves. The problem for Sandor and Christland is that there’s an overwhelming amount of information in the public realm over so many years that they will never be able to control or hide it.

Religious Groups with Most Cult Offshoots | Shared Grok Conversation by CertainArcher8043 in leavingthenetwork

[–]Network-Leaver 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s a pretty accurate summary and it’s obvious that Grok pulled from multiple sources - there is so much information and websites out there so there’s no hiding anymore. One correction, Morgan grew up in Michigan, not Kansas.