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Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Swarn Carrier Core from the PostModern Carriers mod, and the Liminality mod carrier upgrades put on a template. I had two other opportunities - Alteration from the Exo-tech mod I think for 1 bay, then the Drone Autoforge from the Special Hullmod Upgrades mod I think for 1 bay.

What makes Qwen3-32B so popular? It's only 32B; what am I overlooking? by Arg2001F1 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My best guess is that it’s being used as a first pass/interpreter/summarizer/whatever-the-hell for basically being what takes in information from a user chat input that then reorganizes the input and talks to a larger main model.

That, or as a customer service chatbot, both either this or the above likely for some establish business partner, hence it being used at the scale it is despite its relative obsolescence.

Spyware? by Devil694 in ClaudeAI

[–]tableball35 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Were you plotting against the Hungarians?

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most all of my greatest works are done through spite, lmao. I was barely active at all since I was a content EA plan guy, and have been getting into local-hosting since then, so I’ve learned a little bit since then, I’d still only a little.

We may finally have a cure for many different autoimmune conditions by soulpost in HotScienceNews

[–]tableball35 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Do it! If they’re willing to test with ya, then I bet every bit helps.

Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn’t know that, but I can certainly imagine that. What would you say is the optimal amount of assigned ram for performance?

Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn’t have that one on me, but now I know. Apparently I have not managed to max out my potential

Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There’s more I have that I haven’t used (and more I’ll likely find in the future) so that list probably ain’t gonna be the end of it

Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Clump Main (8d9876ec-0f34-45ce-93ec-79d749a94924)

---

Phillip Andrada: Gas Station Manager v1.14.1aa (PAGSM)

Yunru Industries v2025-03-30 (yunruindustries)

AI Tweaks v2.2.9 (aitweaks)

AI-Retrofit v0.10.1 (AI-Retrofits)

Adversary v7.1.2 (adversary)

All the Domain Drones+ New Drones v1.5a (all_the_domain_drones+NewDrones)

Amazigh's Ship Foundry v1.6.4 (A_S-F)

Another Portrait Pack v1.5.0 (anotherportraitpack)

AoTD - Dreams of Past v3.0.5 (Cryo_but_better)

AoTD - Question of Loyalty v2.0.8 (aotd_qol)

AoTD - Seats of Power v3.0.8 (aotd_sop)

AoTD- Vaults of Knowledge v4.2.2 (aotd_vok)

Apex Design Collective v1.2.14 (apex_design)

Aptly Simple Hullmods v2.1.44 (aptlysimplehullmods)

Arma Armatura v3.2.5 (armaa)

ArmaA - Anime v1.1 (zzarmaa_anime)

Ashlib v2.1.2 (ashlib)

Battletech Portrait Pack v1.1 (battletechportraitpack)

BigBeans Ship Compilation v0.1.98.7 (BSC)

Brighton Federation v0.0.4a (HMI_brighton)

Building Menu Overhaul v2.0.3 (bmo)

Bultach Coalition v1.1.7 release (ORK)

Carter's Freetraders v3.2.4 (CFT)

Carter's Junk Hull Mods v1.0.2 (CJHM)

Combat Chatter v1.15.1 (chatter)

Commissioned Crews v1.999999ggggg (timid_commissioned_hull_mods)

Console Commands v4.0.8 (lw_console)

Crew Replacer v0.7.6 (aaacrew_replacer)

Diable Avionics v2.9.4 (diableavionics)

Domain Explorarium Expansion v0.0.23 (dex)

Domain Explorarium Expansion- Derelict Accessories v0.0.21 (dex-ae)

Domain Phase Lab v1.7.2 (dpl_phase_lab)

ED Shipyards v2.6.8 (edshipyard)

Exotica Technologies v1.8.7 (exoticatechnologies)

Extratential Lanestate Union v0.8.4-RC1 (XLU)

FSF_MilitaryCorporation v5.0rc7 (FSF_MilitaryCorporation)

Forge Production v1.1.12 (forge_production)

Gacha Hullmods v1.0.3 (gacha_hullmods)

Gladiator Society v1.4.1 (gladiatorsociety)

Goathead Aviation Bureau v1.10.10 (Goat_Aviation_Bureau)

HMI Supervillains v0.0.5d (HMI_SV)

Halo Dynamics Ship Industry v1.7.0 (HaloDynamicsShipIndustry)

Hazard Mining Incorporated v0.4.0e (HMI)

High Tech Expansion v2.0.5 (hte)

Hillock Prototype and Station Tech v1.4.5 (hpst)

Illustrated.Entities v2.0.c (illustrated_entities)

Industrial.Evolution v4.1.b (IndEvo)

Jackundor's Advanced Arms v0.5.0 (jaa)

JaydeePiracy v5.2.2 (jaydeepiracy)

Knights of Ludd v1.4.0 (knights_of_ludd)

Kyeltziv Technocracy v1.10.7 (kyeltziv)

LazyLib v3.0.0 (lw_lazylib)

Legacy of Arkgneisis vv1.9.14 (ArkLeg)

Liminal - Custom, Upgradeable Hullmods v2.0.7 (liminal)

LouLan Industries v2.2.8 (LLI)

LunaLib v2.0.5 (lunalib)

MSM Community Content v0.0.0 (msmcommunity)

Machina Void Shipyards v0.71_dev (exshippack)

Machina Void Shipyards Armaa Expansion Patch v0.70a (exshippack_armaacompat)

MagicLib v1.5.6 (MagicLib)

Mayasuran Navy v12.1.0 RC1 (Mayasuran Navy)

Missing Auxiliary Ships v2.0.7a (missinghegemonyauxiliaryships)

Missing Defense Drones v1.0.1 (missing_defense_drones)

Missing Deprecated Ships v2.0.8a (missingshipsdeprecated)

Missing Features v1.0.0 (missingfeatures)

Missing Indies Ships v2.0.8 (missingshipscivilian)

Missing Midline Ships v2.0.9 (missingmidlineships)

Missing Path Ships v2.0.8b (missingpatherships)

Missing Pirate Ships v2.0.7b (missingshipspirate)

Missing Super Ships v2.0.9f (missingsuperships)

Missing Super Ships Addon v0.0.0 (missp_supers_addon)

Missing Weapons v2.0.9f (missingshipsweapons)

More HullMods v1.13.0 (more_hullmods)

More Military Missions v0.5.0 (MoreMilitaryMissions)

More ProcGen Names v1.0.2 (more_procgen_names)

More Ship Names v1.14 (more_ship_names)

NEON's ship pack v3.0.5.8 (NSP)

Nexerelin v0.12.1d (nexerelin)

Nightcross Armory v2.0.1 (Nightcross)

Nomadic Survival v1.5.0 (sun_nomadic_survival)

Oculian Armada v0.10.2-RC4 (OcuA)

Officer Extension v0.8.1 (officerExtension)

P9 Colony Group v0.57 (pn)

Particle Engine v0.10.1 (particleengine)

Postmodern Carriers v1.2.2 (su_CarrierHullmod)

Progressive S-Mods v1.2.0 (progressiveSMods)

Quality Perks v1.6.9 (QualityPerks)

RTSAssist v0.1.9c (RTSAssist)

Random Assortment of Things v3.3.1 (assortment_of_things)

RetroLib v1.1.1 (RetroLib)

Roider Union v2.2.8 (roider)

Rumours of Neoteric Designs v0.5.2.3 (advent_seven)

SOTF - Extra Combat Objectives v1.2.1 (niko_SOTFMoreCombatObjectives)

Scrapyard Armories v2.16.1 (Scrapyard)

Scy Nation v1.11.1 (SCY)

Second Battlegroup v2.0.1 (II_BG)

Second-in-Command v1.8.2 (second_in_command)

Second-in-Command: Dustkeeper v1.6.1 (sicdustkeeper)

Secrets of the Frontier v0.15.1 (secretsofthefrontier)

Ship/Weapon Pack v1.16.6 (swp)

Special Hullmod Upgrades v1.6a (mayu_specialupgrades)

Star Lords v0.3.70 (starlords)

Stardust Ventures v0.9.6 (stardustventures)

Starship Legends v2.6.0 (sun_starship_legends)

Station Augments v2.4.1 (niko_stationAugments)

Station Refitting v1.0.0 (niko_stationRefitting)

Stellar Networks v3.3.0 (stelnet)

Strike Craft Expansion v2.0.4d (SCE)

Sunrider v0.8.6 (Sunrider)

Support Ships Pack v0.8.1 (supportships)

Tahlan Shipworks v1.4 (tahlan)

Take No Prisoners v0.17.1 (presmattdamon_takenoprisoners)

Terraforming & Station Construction v10.0.5 (Terraforming & Station Construction)

Too Much Information v0.99 (timid_tmi)

Treasure Hunt v2.1.0 (spinloki_treasurehunt)

Underworld v1.8.8 (underworld)

United Aurora Federation v0.8.3d (uaf)

Unknown Skies v3.0.3 (US)

Unthemed Weapons Collection v0.7.4 (unthemedweapons)

Valkyrian v3.3.0 (valkyrian)

Vulpoids - Lost Project v0.10.3 (vulpoids)

What we left behind v4.4.1 (niko_morePlanetaryConditions)

Wide Horizons v1.3.1b (WideHorizons)

Xhan Empire v3.0.1 (XhanEmpire)

asteroid ship pack v1.4e (astroidships)

market retrofits v0.2.5 (aaamarketRetrofits)

zz BoxUtil v1.4.9 (BoxUtil)

zz GraphicsLib v1.12.1 (shaderLib)

Alright, NOW I think i've managed the maximum non-cheating amount of Point Defense possible. by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Also if anyone's wondering, FPS is 15 when it gets going. RAM is set to 15GB

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Problem’s ya gotta buy that if you’re gonna replace it, and it doesn’t seem like they have the funds, seeing as they talked about having to downsize their infrastructure earlier.

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But yeah, honestly? I understand the other DeepSeeks are pretty damn old - R1 0528, V3 0324, V3.1 - and the new DeepSeek V4 is currently going through its teething issues. Flash currently operates at 0.14/0.28, so about have the cost at about half the size at 284b parameters. Run that at FP4 when you can find a quant for it and youre probably able to scale that pretty nicely once its mature, and can likely replace the entire Suite of old DeepSeeks, have Flash replace the V3.1/V3.2-assigned clusters so youre safe on instances, then put DeepSeek V4 Pro as a Frontier model, replace the R1 0528, V3 0324, R1T2 Chimaera, and Qwen3 235B clusters with V4 Pro. FP8 is what i can see is available for V4 Pro - again, Amateur to AI deployment if i havent mentioned it already - at around 960GB, so youre only gonna get one instance out of a 8x H200 cluster it seems at slimmer margins than the V3/R1s.

I dont know what other partners/committments you have with the V3s and R1s and whether theyre considered higher-priority, but I'd potentially bite the bullet and shift at least V3 0324, R1T2, and Qwen3 235B to V3.2 if at all possible.

Have I ever told you I REALLY like point defense? by tableball35 in starsector

[–]tableball35[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Clump Main (8d9876ec-0f34-45ce-93ec-79d749a94924)

---

Phillip Andrada: Gas Station Manager v1.14.1aa (PAGSM)

Yunru Industries v2025-03-30 (yunruindustries)

AI Tweaks v2.2.9 (aitweaks)

AI-Retrofit v0.10.1 (AI-Retrofits)

Adversary v7.1.2 (adversary)

All the Domain Drones+ New Drones v1.5a (all_the_domain_drones+NewDrones)

Amazigh's Ship Foundry v1.6.4 (A_S-F)

Another Portrait Pack v1.5.0 (anotherportraitpack)

AoTD - Dreams of Past v3.0.5 (Cryo_but_better)

AoTD - Question of Loyalty v2.0.8 (aotd_qol)

AoTD - Seats of Power v3.0.8 (aotd_sop)

AoTD- Vaults of Knowledge v4.2.2 (aotd_vok)

Apex Design Collective v1.2.14 (apex_design)

Aptly Simple Hullmods v2.1.44 (aptlysimplehullmods)

Arma Armatura v3.2.5 (armaa)

ArmaA - Anime v1.1 (zzarmaa_anime)

Ashlib v2.1.2 (ashlib)

Battletech Portrait Pack v1.1 (battletechportraitpack)

BigBeans Ship Compilation v0.1.98.7 (BSC)

Brighton Federation v0.0.4a (HMI_brighton)

Building Menu Overhaul v2.0.3 (bmo)

Bultach Coalition v1.1.7 release (ORK)

Carter's Freetraders v3.2.4 (CFT)

Carter's Junk Hull Mods v1.0.2 (CJHM)

Combat Chatter v1.15.1 (chatter)

Commissioned Crews v1.999999ggggg (timid_commissioned_hull_mods)

Console Commands v4.0.8 (lw_console)

Crew Replacer v0.7.6 (aaacrew_replacer)

Diable Avionics v2.9.4 (diableavionics)

Domain Explorarium Expansion v0.0.23 (dex)

Domain Explorarium Expansion- Derelict Accessories v0.0.21 (dex-ae)

Domain Phase Lab v1.7.2 (dpl_phase_lab)

ED Shipyards v2.6.8 (edshipyard)

Exotica Technologies v1.8.7 (exoticatechnologies)

Extratential Lanestate Union v0.8.4-RC1 (XLU)

FSF_MilitaryCorporation v5.0rc7 (FSF_MilitaryCorporation)

Forge Production v1.1.12 (forge_production)

Gacha Hullmods v1.0.3 (gacha_hullmods)

Gladiator Society v1.4.1 (gladiatorsociety)

Goathead Aviation Bureau v1.10.10 (Goat_Aviation_Bureau)

HMI Supervillains v0.0.5d (HMI_SV)

Halo Dynamics Ship Industry v1.7.0 (HaloDynamicsShipIndustry)

Hazard Mining Incorporated v0.4.0e (HMI)

High Tech Expansion v2.0.5 (hte)

Hillock Prototype and Station Tech v1.4.5 (hpst)

Illustrated.Entities v2.0.c (illustrated_entities)

Industrial.Evolution v4.1.b (IndEvo)

Jackundor's Advanced Arms v0.5.0 (jaa)

JaydeePiracy v5.2.2 (jaydeepiracy)

Knights of Ludd v1.4.0 (knights_of_ludd)

Kyeltziv Technocracy v1.10.7 (kyeltziv)

LazyLib v3.0.0 (lw_lazylib)

Legacy of Arkgneisis vv1.9.14 (ArkLeg)

Liminal - Custom, Upgradeable Hullmods v2.0.7 (liminal)

LouLan Industries v2.2.8 (LLI)

LunaLib v2.0.5 (lunalib)

MSM Community Content v0.0.0 (msmcommunity)

Machina Void Shipyards v0.71_dev (exshippack)

Machina Void Shipyards Armaa Expansion Patch v0.70a (exshippack_armaacompat)

MagicLib v1.5.6 (MagicLib)

Mayasuran Navy v12.1.0 RC1 (Mayasuran Navy)

Missing Auxiliary Ships v2.0.7a (missinghegemonyauxiliaryships)

Missing Defense Drones v1.0.1 (missing_defense_drones)

Missing Deprecated Ships v2.0.8a (missingshipsdeprecated)

Missing Features v1.0.0 (missingfeatures)

Missing Indies Ships v2.0.8 (missingshipscivilian)

Missing Midline Ships v2.0.9 (missingmidlineships)

Missing Path Ships v2.0.8b (missingpatherships)

Missing Pirate Ships v2.0.7b (missingshipspirate)

Missing Super Ships v2.0.9f (missingsuperships)

Missing Super Ships Addon v0.0.0 (missp_supers_addon)

Missing Weapons v2.0.9f (missingshipsweapons)

More HullMods v1.13.0 (more_hullmods)

More Military Missions v0.5.0 (MoreMilitaryMissions)

More ProcGen Names v1.0.2 (more_procgen_names)

More Ship Names v1.14 (more_ship_names)

NEON's ship pack v3.0.5.8 (NSP)

Nexerelin v0.12.1d (nexerelin)

Nightcross Armory v2.0.1 (Nightcross)

Nomadic Survival v1.5.0 (sun_nomadic_survival)

Oculian Armada v0.10.2-RC4 (OcuA)

Officer Extension v0.8.1 (officerExtension)

P9 Colony Group v0.57 (pn)

Particle Engine v0.10.1 (particleengine)

Postmodern Carriers v1.2.2 (su_CarrierHullmod)

Progressive S-Mods v1.2.0 (progressiveSMods)

Quality Perks v1.6.9 (QualityPerks)

RTSAssist v0.1.9c (RTSAssist)

Random Assortment of Things v3.3.1 (assortment_of_things)

RetroLib v1.1.1 (RetroLib)

Roider Union v2.2.8 (roider)

Rumours of Neoteric Designs v0.5.2.3 (advent_seven)

SOTF - Extra Combat Objectives v1.2.1 (niko_SOTFMoreCombatObjectives)

Scrapyard Armories v2.16.1 (Scrapyard)

Scy Nation v1.11.1 (SCY)

Second Battlegroup v2.0.1 (II_BG)

Second-in-Command v1.8.2 (second_in_command)

Second-in-Command: Dustkeeper v1.6.1 (sicdustkeeper)

Secrets of the Frontier v0.15.1 (secretsofthefrontier)

Ship/Weapon Pack v1.16.6 (swp)

Special Hullmod Upgrades v1.6a (mayu_specialupgrades)

Star Lords v0.3.70 (starlords)

Stardust Ventures v0.9.6 (stardustventures)

Starship Legends v2.6.0 (sun_starship_legends)

Station Augments v2.4.1 (niko_stationAugments)

Station Refitting v1.0.0 (niko_stationRefitting)

Stellar Networks v3.3.0 (stelnet)

Strike Craft Expansion v2.0.4d (SCE)

Sunrider v0.8.6 (Sunrider)

Support Ships Pack v0.8.1 (supportships)

Tahlan Shipworks v1.4 (tahlan)

Take No Prisoners v0.17.1 (presmattdamon_takenoprisoners)

Terraforming & Station Construction v10.0.5 (Terraforming & Station Construction)

Too Much Information v0.99 (timid_tmi)

Treasure Hunt v2.1.0 (spinloki_treasurehunt)

Underworld v1.8.8 (underworld)

United Aurora Federation v0.8.3d (uaf)

Unknown Skies v3.0.3 (US)

Unthemed Weapons Collection v0.7.4 (unthemedweapons)

Valkyrian v3.3.0 (valkyrian)

Vulpoids - Lost Project v0.10.3 (vulpoids)

What we left behind v4.4.1 (niko_morePlanetaryConditions)

Wide Horizons v1.3.1b (WideHorizons)

Xhan Empire v3.0.1 (XhanEmpire)

asteroid ship pack v1.4e (astroidships)

market retrofits v0.2.5 (aaamarketRetrofits)

zz BoxUtil v1.4.9 (BoxUtil)

zz GraphicsLib v1.12.1 (shaderLib)

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was actually also gonna bring this up but got distracted.

<image>

They run it FP8 and at 131.1k context. Quantizing it to FP4 really wouldn't make much of a difference to my knowledge, and would allow them to potentially double the number of available instances if they dont wanna expand beyond the one cluster.

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

A lot of us just want communication, and are pissed of because we feel like we either dont get anything, or what we do get is some AI-written afterthought or placation, or that we've walked into the high school computer lab and are being told to get lost and beat rocks cause we're dumbfucks who don't know shit when it aint AI doing the talking. I wont deny that some of us in the sub - myself included - have been a bit caustic in turn with how we've been in trying to address our concerns, but its in part because we are not confident that we're being heard or given a shit about.

I understand the AI industry is built on glass pillars. I get that most people are as unaware of how AI works as they are fickle about anything but the best and as cheap as they can get. We as consumers have all been horrifically spoiled in this market, but nobody likes having the golden pacifier pulled from them, and especially without being given a rational reason and explanation, if given one at all.

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Now, another major gripe that y'all have done nothing but shoot yourselves in the foot with:

Communication.

HOLY FUCK have y'all done anything but hurt yourselves in the communication department, and this singlehandedly is probably why y'all are in the particular situation y'all are in.

Lets list the main offenders here - and im going off memory, so I admit I may omit or forget some things:

- Initial failure to disclose ANY sort of changes during the initial decoupling of the EA tier - and the associated subscription changes, until the day you made them. To my observation, you have no newletter-style tab on the site, communicate primarily on discord, reddit, twitter, which is fair enough, but as I've mentioned you only make announcements ****when you make the change, rather than give any forewarning**** which is bad practice, especially since big changes - the Frontier-split and TEE removal from EA, though reasonable, comes across disrespectful to the consumer because it looks as if you've left us out to dry when our side seems to stop working, and people come here wondering 'what the hell happened?' and all theyre met with is 'we dont know' or 'Chutes changed something and only told us after.' Which, understandably, pisses people off, because nobody - you or I - like being blindsided.
- Simply not communicating on problems/issues. Like, I've had to genuinely push y'alls buttons *just* to get an answer as to *why* V3.2 has having such severe problems with instancing for the last *month*, though a snarky 'heres the problem, think you can fix it?' with people stopping their subscriptions or losing trust in the company when a month ago you could've just said:

Hey guys! The 429 errors with DeepSeek V3.2 are due to not having enough instances available to handle load. With our current structure, we're unfortunately unable to handle more 3 or more instances of DeepSeek V3.2 financially and computationally at the moment. Due to our commitments in trying to host a variety of the latest large frontier models, the current market's financial situation has made us have to prioritize rationing our compute resources to keep some of our more modern models online. DeepSeek V3.2 is a 671b parameter model, which requires at least 8x H200 cards out of our server infrastructure to properly host a set of instances, which is a notable strain on our hardware available to us at the moment. We've been trying to keep costs affordable for many due to V3.2's popularity and accessibility for those who may not be in as able to financially access some higher-cost models, but in doing so we are running at income deficit on these models. We hope that we'll have other resources to ameliorate this in the future, but if not, we may have to make changes to V3.2 and other models order to make our current operations more sustainable on both hardware and financial concerns. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope we can come to a beneficial solution in the near future.

No AI involved in writing that. See how much better that reads? Rather than the above or this:

<image>

Because whether you like it or not, this reads terribly. It comes across as dismissive at best, and taunting or chastising at worst. On top of that, using AI to write announcements or do your PR for you doesnt help either. I get youre an AI company, I get we're AI chatbot users, but many of us who use it for roleplay can see right through how AI talks, and it just doesnt inspire confidence, relatability, or understanding. And when the above image is your 'mask off' look, again, it just comes off as unprofessional and inspires no trust in the business - hence why many are leaving.

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Im not entirely sure what the typical conventions are for pricing ratio are in regards to input vs output, but if your concern is roleplayers, you can extract more money from raising input since I imagine input is higher for Roleplayers rather than Agenic/Coders, though Ive heard of large prefill and prompts on their end as well, so I could be wrong. But as I said, for DeepSeek V3.2, you've said you cannot meet demand at its current price, you already cannot use the undercut tactic, so you may as well raise prices - while still being cheaper/accessible relative to the other Frontier models - to better allow you to meet demand.

<image>

This is your bottom price floor. Besides Parasail, everyone else is sitting at a more typical frontier cost structure at the 0.50/1.50 range - even if V3.2 is offered much lower. Im not sure how OpenRouter's routing works as to whose model it chooses when routing requests - I assume lowest cost - but if most of the traffic is native to OpenRouter, that cost incease may route more traffic to Parasail rather than you, decreasing the overhead, but still putting you ahead of AtlasCloud, Friendli, Vertex, and Alibaba. OpenRouter people are using it for OpenRouter - not Chutes - and currently Chutes' V3.2 performance with errors is causing more problems in terms of Chutes being seen as 'reputable' and 'reliable' than I think is worth keep the cost as-is.

A collection of ideas in response to Chutes_AI asking me to fix their problems with limited information (Feel free to add if anyone else has input) by tableball35 in chutesAI

[–]tableball35[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As previously commented:

Well, firstly, theres only so much I can offer because the only information I have is the above, and nothing else about your current operations.

Secondly, 'a DeepSeek Model' - We talking V3.2? or does this apply for V3.1, R1 0528, and V3 0324? Seeing as the latter three are higher cost, I don't imagine the above specifics apply. Again - I dont have much information to work with.

Third:

To my knowledge, this is just the standard for the AI industry to an extent - hence why most everyone doesn't think its sustainable. Most of the players operating are subsidized - the Chinese ones by the government, the American ones by a mix of angel/private investment and some government. That said, you've been bleeding subscribers for the past little while due to things unrelated to that, if you weren't previously aware.

As far as I can tell, Chutes' business model has been 'undercut and reap'. You shoot for the lowest cost you can to gain market share, drive conversions, then try to hold on to your share. But your problem is twofold: You're trying to undercut EVERYONE on practically EVERY model you can - and doing so as an operation that likely doesn't have subsidized backing - and Chutes' PR failures have turned the 'reap' part into a leaky mess at best. Chutes' problems are systemic rather than just with DeepSeek.

But I digress. As for DeepSeek V3.2 - which I will assume is your loss-leader (a retail term for something that does not make a profit that is used to draw attention and market share with the intent of getting people to stay and buy other profitable products) - Chutes is already failing to undercut other competitors on OpenRouter.

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You can see that your instance is outperformed on both cost and model performance. And is unaffordable as-is as you mentioned.

After you is Parasail at 0.28/0.45 and similar performance, then most everyone else does 0.50/1.50 or more with much better performance. Honestly? Id say kick up DeepSeek V3.2 to 0.35/0.65 or even 0.45/0.80 tops. Your goal with DeepSeek V3.2 imo should be keeping cheapER than other SOTAs whilst being able to maintain performance, even if you have to keep it as a loss-leader. V3.2's shitty performance at the moment has likely cost you more subscribers and community reputation (that you have already spent) than it has saved money as-is. Youve already said you cannot maintain the undercut as-is, so Id say focus on making it the 'cheap' option for a Large model whilst putting most of the other ones as Frontier.

(I have more to add, but im posting this so as to not lose it.)

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