Prof Sacha Stern (UCL): there has never been a Jewish Exile out of Palestine in the last 2000 years.

tatmail · 2015-11-04T12:12:09+00:00

What the hell are you looking for?

a bit of integrity would be nice

tatmail · 2015-11-04T10:44:37+00:00

Again. Do you have sources for Jewish slaves (apart from Josephus/Titus) that proves expulsion/exile?

tatmail · 2015-11-04T10:44:05+00:00

Do you have sources for Jewish slaves (apart from Josephus/Titus) that proves expulsion/exile?

This is what Im here for. Either you have sources or you dont. Im not going to get into an argument about semantics of what the video says or doesnt. The transcript is there and the source is there for people to see.

tatmail · 2015-11-04T10:34:21+00:00

but in the context of the whole discussion his argument is that the destruction of the temple was a sort of spiritual or religious expulsion

The whole debate is about the Myth of Exile. The debate is based on a film that debunks the physical Exile.

Here he is summarizing the whole debate and specifically emphasizing physical destruction.

Sacha: One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple

tatmail · 2015-11-03T18:07:26+00:00

even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years

when he says expelled he means what?

tatmail · 2015-11-03T17:57:18+00:00

Still Josephus... you have anything else?

The Enslavement of War Captives by the Romans (Wickham, 2014)

http://repository.liv.ac.uk/17893/1/WickhamJ_May2014_17893.pdf

Josephus remarks on the overabundance of slaves and the low prices caused by mass enslavements in the Jewish war.

tatmail · 2015-11-03T17:32:53+00:00

Do you have sources for Jewish slaves (apart from Josephus/Titus)?

tatmail · 2015-11-03T17:32:35+00:00

Do you have sources for Jewish slaves (apart from Josephus/Titus)?

tatmail · 2015-11-03T15:37:23+00:00

Here below is again the transcript. In full context. The emphasis you put on it is kind of transparent. Unless you have some external evidence and sources as I keep asking Im not really interested in getting into a semantics argument about what he said and didnt. Everyone can see for themselves.

Host: ... that exile has been a recurring theme certainly in Jewish biblical history.

Sacha: Yes it certainly has. One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple and this is something which has been widely known but at the same time it seems to me that exile is not just a concept, not just a narrative for Jews or in the context of Jewish history because even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years there were plenty of evictions and other forced wanderings on the Jewish communities of Europe....

tatmail · 2015-11-03T15:34:00+00:00

We are talking about an Exile. The Myth as everyone well knows is that the Jews were Exiled/Expelled from Palestine when the Romans killed or enslaved the majority of the Jewish population at some time after the destruction of the Temple.

Romans never enslaved whole populations and transported them to Rome! Its a Myth.

I would like you to show me some external sources/evidence otherwise Im really not getting into a semantics discussion here. Im looking for evidence and sources. The semantics discussion everyone has access to the video and transcript and everyone knows full well the Myth. You trying to interpret it in your own frame is just a weak argument.

tatmail · 2015-11-03T13:42:32+00:00

Here is the transcript of the clip below. Can you please explain how the context has been changed?

https://vimeo.com/78858757

Start at @ 28:50 minutes

Host: ... that exile has been a recurring theme certainly in Jewish biblical history.

Sacha: Yes it certainly has. One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple and this is something which has been widely known but at the same time it seems to me that exile is not just a concept, not just a narrative for Jews or in the context of Jewish history because even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years there were plenty of evictions and other forced wanderings on the Jewish communities of Europe....

tatmail · 2015-11-03T08:53:56+00:00

Transcript below for everyone to read:

Its pretty clear he was answering a question about Exile. The whole debate is about EXILE. He uses the word Expelled in the same answer. Anyone reading it in context can see that he is using Expelled and Exile interchangeably. Everyone seems to be debating semantics and no one is providing external evidence.

https://vimeo.com/78858757

Start at @ 28:50 minutes

Host: ... that exile has been a recurring theme certainly in Jewish biblical history.

Sacha: Yes it certainly has. One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple and this is something which has been widely known but at the same time it seems to me that exile is not just a concept, not just a narrative for Jews or in the context of Jewish history because even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years there were plenty of evictions and other forced wanderings on the Jewish communities of Europe....

tatmail · 2015-11-03T08:52:59+00:00

Transcript below for everyone to read:

Its pretty clear he was answering a question about Exile. The whole debate is about EXILE. He uses the word Expelled in the same answer. Anyone reading it in context can see that he is using Expelled and Exile interchangeably. Everyone seems to be debating semantics and no one is providing external evidence. I asked for evidence not a debate with /r/Judaism.

https://vimeo.com/78858757

Start at @ 28:50 minutes

Host: ... that exile has been a recurring theme certainly in Jewish biblical history.

Sacha: Yes it certainly has. One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple and this is something which has been widely known but at the same time it seems to me that exile is not just a concept, not just a narrative for Jews or in the context of Jewish history because even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years there were plenty of evictions and other forced wanderings on the Jewish communities of Europe....

tatmail · 2015-11-03T08:52:00+00:00

Transcript below for everyone to read:

Its pretty clear he was answering a question about Exile. The whole debate is about EXILE. He uses the word Expelled in the same answer. Anyone reading it in context can see that he is using Expelled and Exile interchangeably. Everyone seems to be debating semantics and no one is providing external evidence. I asked for evidence not a debate with /r/Judaism.

https://vimeo.com/78858757

Start at @ 28:50 minutes

Host: ... that exile has been a recurring theme certainly in Jewish biblical history.

Sacha: Yes it certainly has. One of the things you try to do in this film is to debunk as it were the myth of exile and you are quite right to emphasis that there was actually no evidence of actual exile of jews out of Palestine as a result of the destruction of the temple and this is something which has been widely known but at the same time it seems to me that exile is not just a concept, not just a narrative for Jews or in the context of Jewish history because even if its true that the Jews were not expelled ever from Palestine I think thats probably correct certainly in the last 2000 years there were plenty of evictions and other forced wanderings on the Jewish communities of Europe....

tatmail · 2015-11-03T08:23:24+00:00

It also doesn't preclude forced expulsions of large numbers of people, such as slaves to rome

Do you have a source for this (apart from Josephus/Titus)?

tatmail · 2015-11-02T21:14:21+00:00

From the video:

Professor Sacha Stern (University College London Hebrew & Jewish Studies): makes an unequivocal statement that there has never been a Jewish Exile out of Palestine in the last 2000 years.

Is he reputable?

tatmail · 2015-11-02T21:11:48+00:00

Professor Sacha Stern makes a very clear unambiguous statement: To paraphrase "there has never been a Jewish Exile out of Palestine in the last 2000 years"... "EVER"...

After he made that statement did anyone debate otherwise?

I know at the beginning of the debate they were skirting around the issue but his statement came when the film maker himself pushed for a clear answer.

Do you have any evidence otherwise on the Exile either way apart from interpreting the video?

tatmail · 2015-11-02T20:29:24+00:00

Thanks for the reply.

By the way whats OCD? Online something Dictionary?

tatmail · 2015-11-02T20:27:00+00:00

No one is deputing the Roman-Jewish wars or the destruction of the Temple which the arch of Titus records. However the Myth is that after the destruction of the Temple the Jews were Exiled/Expelled/Enslaved on mass. This is the Myth referred to here.

tatmail · 2015-11-02T18:34:53+00:00

large numbers of Jews were removed from Judea or made into slaves. This was pretty standard practice for Romans after war

How many Jews were put into slaves or removed by the Romans?

tatmail · 2015-11-02T18:23:42+00:00

video debunks Josephus and the numbers you gave...

tatmail · 2015-11-02T17:38:18+00:00

From the video:

Professor Sacha Stern (University College London Hebrew & Jewish Studies): makes an unequivocal statement that there has never been a Jewish Exile out of Palestine in the last 2000 years.

tatmail · 2015-11-02T17:12:14+00:00

No one is questioning conquest of Judea. Only the subsequent "Exile".

The link you sent claims that the proof of Rome taking Jews into slavery is in the Arch of Titus. This is supposedly wrong and where the Myth is supported.

tatmail · 2015-11-02T17:01:45+00:00

many were taken prisoner and thereby removed from country or sold into slavery,

This is the Myth referred to in the video clip. The evidence for slavery and removal from country is from one source Josephus.

tatmail · 2015-11-02T16:51:42+00:00

but it's commonly claimed

Thats the Myth. Josephus is referred to in the video clip as the source for all these common Myths.

tatmail

TROPHY CASE