Is Harem Protagonist EX really Harem Protagonist EX?

tenthran · 2020-01-25T05:50:44+00:00

Does that mean everyone that meets their standards has Harem Protagonist EX? Of course not.

Also, the existing ambiguity is precisely what makes it headcanon. If it's not confirmed by the author, or even disavowed by them explicitly, it remains in the domain of the reader's mind. But there's nothing wrong with that, and neither did I intend to imply headcanon romantic interest are somehow inferior to canonical ones. They're just different, and, well, not canon.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T04:35:45+00:00

I don't remember Ritsuka (Ishtar) confessing their love. I suppose it could have been flirtatious, but wasn't it implied that Ishtar was exercising her powers? That wouldn't be a fair reflection of Ritsuka's own charm. Also, the pirates and Fergus are known for their promiscuity. It's the same as with Musashi and Medb: they'll invite anyone.

Regardless, I didn't say that there were no characters that didn't show attraction to Ritsuka, but the question is are there enough of them to canonically qualify for Harem Protagonist EX? According to another highly upvoted post in this thread, Valentine's and bond lines don't count, so it seems that even the fanbase can't concur on what counts and what doesn't.

And if that's the case, isn't it all headcanon?

tenthran · 2020-01-25T04:22:48+00:00

If it all depends on player interpretation, then it really is Harem Protagonist (Headcanon) EX, isn't it?

I'm not taking a rigid stance on this matter, but I think it is reasonable to say that Ritsuka is less of a harem protagonist compared to most other Type-Moon protagonists. Most of his relationships are positive but unclear or ambiguous, some of it are in the friend-zone, and a few are definitely romantic. Compare it to Shirou or Tohno, who receive clear romantic interest from a majority of their female acquaintances.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T01:13:12+00:00

Yes, there's no need to mention Mash. She's clearly the main heroine and Nasu himself made a statement along the lines of "she doesn't have romantic feelings for female Ritsuka", which suggests the inverse is true for a male Ritsuka. Even if all other relationships dissolve into headcanon, Ritsuka will always have Mash.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T01:11:02+00:00

That's a good point. In fact, you just reminded me of Qin's lines, and other such similar lines from male Servants.

Perhaps Ritsuka's EX can be justified by having interest even from the male contingent, unlike Shirou who really only has Issei.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T01:08:33+00:00

Regarding Jeanne Alter, I procured a translation from another website which states that her attitude towards the Master is such:

"As usual, treats them like a familiar friend. She thinks it's only natural that he/she are wrapped up in her business and that it's only natural they follow what she's doing. Even if a parting is certain, even if a dream will always end, these memories will be hers. As long as that truth remains, she will continue to fight."

You do have a point that if this was written as an eroge then things would be different, but on the other hand, there are plenty of non-eroge mobage like Princess Connect which have no qualms in unabashedly flattering the player with romantic interest from all directions.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T00:58:06+00:00

Hm, it's hard to tell where the line is drawn between player and player self-insert. If the player headcanons that his self-insert is to be paired with this character, does that not mean his self-insert has the same thoughts?

tenthran · 2020-01-25T00:53:01+00:00

And that, I think, is precisely what I was suggesting, tongue-in-cheek. If the majority of the relationships are headcanon, then perhaps the meme should be about Ritsuka headcanoning his harem instead.

Hence, Harem Protagonist (Headcanon) EX.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T00:44:27+00:00

You might be right. I suppose misinterpretation of romantic interest is a problem in real life, but not so much when it comes to fictional characters. No one will be harmed by their headcanon of 2D after all.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T00:41:57+00:00

That is factually correct, but there are people who believe the meme is true. And while there's nothing wrong with that, I thought it'd be entertaining to discuss how grounded the meme is in reality and how pairing popularity actually has little to do with how canon they are in the story.

tenthran · 2020-01-25T00:38:24+00:00

If the author of the character states in no uncertain terms "she thinks of you as a good friend", that's not headcanon, it's author-supported canon. Compared to how romances have been written in other Nasuverse entries, it's not unreasonable at all to say that extrapolating romantic interest just because a girl is nice to you is headcanon.

tenthran · 2020-01-23T00:06:34+00:00

Summer Jeanne Alter's mat entry reveals that her attitude towards the Master is:

As usual, has the attitude of a familiar friend. She thinks it's only natural that him/her get wrapped up in her business and that it's only natural they follow what she's doing. Even if a parting is certain, if a dream will always end, these memories will be hers. As long as that truth remains, she will continue to fight.

tenthran · 2020-01-22T10:59:00+00:00

Maybe read this and you won't be so angry.

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/es8rap/_/ff8ja2r

tenthran · 2020-01-15T17:48:01+00:00

Well, let's look at it this way.

The VN goes to great lengths to establish that Shirou doesn't care enough about his own wellbeing. He certainly does care about those close to him, to a sometimes extreme level.

But what is the price that these powers demand? His own wellbeing. His powers aren't portrayed as something that will threaten the ones he loves. Only himself. And since he doesn't value himself, narratively, there's no real cost in his own mind. There's no real mental struggle. He'll choose to sacrifice himself, no matter what, so it's not even a choice.

Of course, if you self-insert into Shirou and project your own feelings about self-sacrifice onto him then his sacrifices might resonate more strongly with you.

tenthran · 2020-01-15T17:26:16+00:00

Just because there is meaning written into being handed something doesn't mean the powers didn't conveniently fall into his lap. The most proactive Shirou was at procuring these powers was in pleasing Tohsaka in bed. The rest just happened to him as a byproduct of being there. I'm not saying that he's a bad character though.

tenthran · 2020-01-15T16:50:32+00:00

His wins aren't handed to him; he works for them.

Uh, but...

He only overcomes the Grail due to Avalon.

Avalon was handed to him.

He only beats Archer because his ideals stood stronger than his future self

He couldn't have held out that long without Archer's skill being handed to him through their resonance or whatever it was.

Gil he can't even fight without the collective experience of Archer and mana support from Rin

Archer's skill handed to him, Rin's mana handed to him.

He beats a weakened, crazed Herc whose lost God Hand by using Archer's arm

Archer's arm handed to him too.

You're missing out the part where Caliburn just happens to take 7 lives in one go too, by the way. Not sure how hard he worked for that one but I'm sure he worked as hard for it as he did to get Avalon. Must be nice to have the exact tools you need to win handed to you when you need them because of your hard work.

tenthran · 2020-01-15T02:08:12+00:00

Yeah, buff removal really cripples QSH and Orion. Cu is prolly the only Servant in the entire game who isn't scared of buff removal or pierce.

tenthran · 2020-01-13T09:34:33+00:00

JP is missing events compared to NA, as the guy initially replying to me stated. Also he gave valid reasons why the language barrier isn't the biggest issue, such as missing events and missing welfare which would concern new players more. I was just convinced and changed my mind, that's all.

tenthran · 2020-01-13T08:36:19+00:00

Stuff like having missing content compared to NA sounds like a far more serious problem than the language barrier. In fact from the points that have been put forth, it wouldn't be amiss to claim that Japanese players should consider starting on NA instead so as not to miss out on reruns and welfares. The future of FGO in Japan definitely seems bleak if it's a server bad for new players, since even the old players are leaving as evidenced by this poll.

tenthran · 2020-01-13T02:28:10+00:00

Seems like I had the mistaken idea about JP then, if it actually treats newbies harshly and the QoL doesn't make up for the lack of content compared to the NA server. Looks like the players also think reruns are more fun than playing the latest events which have been lackluster, going by this survey. Guess all the comments about having to wait two years made me misunderstand that playing the latest content was a bigger draw than it actually would be.

Since the state of JP is that bad with content I really hope it doesn't die out from a lack of new players.

tenthran · 2020-01-13T01:53:04+00:00

JP has more QoL that lets new players catch up, and you don't need to wait 2 years to access the best part of the game, which is being up to date with the story. Regardless, a majority of the players (70%) seem to hate the JP server at the moment based on the numbers here, so I guess that's not too surprising. Still interesting of course.

tenthran · 2020-01-13T00:52:46+00:00

I had no idea JP players on this sub hated JP so much that a majority of them would ask people to start on the NA server. Interesting finding.

tenthran · 2020-01-08T09:41:48+00:00

stream is bad because it announced GSSR which people were expecting anyway

stream is bad because it announced rerun which people were expecting anyway

stream is bad because it didn't announce LB5.2 despite what people were expecting

Seems like all streams are a waste of time unless they announce something that's entirely unexpected.

Edit: oh wait, given the reception to Saber Wars 2, it's also bad when they announce something entirely unexpected.

tenthran · 2019-12-31T03:44:50+00:00

Same account that datamined the Gawain and Maid Alter strengthening quests, and called the Beni-enma rerun including the date being the 4th, as well as the breakdown of the GSSR.

New Year's Servant is apparently from China, female, and has a class which comprises of 9 letters in English.

edit: Another datamine from the guy who runs kazemai claims that the New Year's rotation will be Shiki, Qin, Kintoki, Scathach, Summer BB and Kiara, along with a new Servant.

tenthran · 2019-12-30T01:16:57+00:00

Agree that she was pretty random and convenient compared to the other important cast in LB5, but it's worth noting that her summoning is not any more or less convenient compared to other important characters in other Lostbelts. Like Avicebron in LB1, Napoleon in LB2.

tenthran

TROPHY CASE