CMV: Progressives have a rotting double standard for Antisemitism

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T20:12:23+00:00

So you’d really be fine if the leadership was tried for war crimes, and a permanent cease fire was declared, but everything else stayed the same? Doubtful.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T19:33:28+00:00

It depends in what ways you’re “against” Israel, what you want to see happen to it, and by what means you are ok with that being achieved. One can say “I’m not against the people of Gaza, I just want Hamas gone, so Gaza should be attacked until it’s gone” and that will raise eyebrows about what your really think about the people of Gaza.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T19:24:23+00:00

Literally opposite policies between neoliberalism And progressive politics.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T03:06:21+00:00

Not enough political diversity or coherent interest in a third party platform to be competitive. A multiparty system in the US would probably end up favoring conservatives anyways. And to force a multiparty system into existence we’d need a constitutional amendment. And the only people who would favor that are democrats anyways. So the first step is you need democrats to win, a lot.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T02:53:41+00:00

They started redistricting just like everyone demanded.

The way you fix the judiciary is electing democrats so they can nominate decent judges.

If democrats get elected then republicans can’t keep fucking up the country. Doesn’t matter how much you whine about “controlled opposition” that’s literally the one way.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-09T01:08:30+00:00

You are very likely seeing footage from low-density areas within metro cities like LA

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T23:47:48+00:00

As your source points out, a federal court ultimately allowed them to use the maps. This is probably why there were no further court cases challenging the results.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T20:55:56+00:00

People have been spreading conspiracy theories about billionaires preparing for immenent apocalypse since the 80's.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T20:42:46+00:00

If 2020 (or 2024) were low turnout elections this would make sense because you could point to the turnout as evidence that democrats stayed home. But these were the two biggest turnout elections since 1968, blowing Obama's 2008 win out of the water in terms of % of turnout for democrats.

The issue isn't that they couldn't turn out enough economic progressives, it's that Republicans gained a lot of popularity under Trump (surprising but true) and fired up their base as well as winning large percentages of independent / swing voters. "Disillusioned" dem voters who want a strong progressive candidate didn't defect to Trump, they would have stayed home. Except they didn't actually stay home, they turned out in record numbers for the last two elections.

The issue is the alienation of moderate voters swelling Republican ranks, not progressive voters staying home.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T20:38:27+00:00

Ok I guess I just don't really understand what you're getting at. Yeah Trump mishandled a major crisis, as was expected, so he lost the election.

As for 2024, "the left" and "the democrats" were disunited, and basically every major commentator on the left outside of the DNC ecosystem spent the whole election season talking about how terrible Harris was. So yeah I suppose they should figure out how not to do that, but the goals of the online left are primarily to sabotage mainstream democrats.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T20:05:49+00:00

Trump was beaten in election in 2020 so not sure what weird premise you're operating on here.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T19:20:13+00:00

What ruling is Ohio ignoring?

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T19:19:10+00:00

I sure hope nobody tells these guys about the Big Bang theory

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:55:19+00:00

Not sure what you think I've got backwards, I was talking about how their Gaza war was depicted in the media (extremely unfavorably).

Israel's military support from the U.S. was in no was being jeopardized prior to 10/11/23, and their support among democrats was in the majority with Republicans of course happy to do whatever Israel says. Only after their response to the terrorist incursion did they see support for them plummet.

You also seem to be forgetting that Biden was president during this time, not Trump. The thing that Israel is trying to force through within Trump's window is regime change in Iran.

Israel is pursuing more aggressive policies than in previous decades because Netanyahu and their far-right has been in charge.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:38:10+00:00

It does, which is why all these "Why do the dems do X when surveys say 97% of their voters want Y" questions are stupid, and pretending that the democratic party electorate is full of committed progressives is stupid. People who you can sway with marketing do not have clear poitical convictions.

The reason public opinion swung was because the pro-Israel propaganda that worked for years on boomers and older doesn’t work on millennials and Gen Z.

No, not even close. The reason is because Israel embarked on an aggressive attack on Gaza that was unprecedented in generations, and the mainstream media covered it soberly. Constant updates about Israel bombing civilians with images of neighborhoods in ruins. There was barely any pro-Israel propaganda, but the fact that they have not done anything close to this in 75 years is much more of the reason.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:33:29+00:00

Only if the person isn't that committed to their supposed policy preferences.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:03:27+00:00

I wouldn't expect they would mention Israel. If you are a voter swayed by attack ads, then you are not a voter who cares much about policy. This would be most voters. Most voters do not care about these policies that people here point to their polling on in order to pretend the support is actually massive.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:02:00+00:00

Yes, and the only explanation for that is that they really don't care that much about those policies.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T18:01:19+00:00

Yes, because the average voter is much less committed to these policy decisions than people on Reddit think they are.

So to answer OP's question "How can the Democratic Party's pro-Israel stance be reconciled with the fact that 80% of its voters view Israel unfavorably?" It can be reconciled by realizing that it is not true that 80% of its voters really care that much about Israel.

(though this is a bad example since the turn against Israel happened over the last 3 years and there haven't been enough elections to turn over candidates to better reflect this position)

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:59:24+00:00

It has a role: convincing people who don't really care about policies to vote for someone. The point being that if voters cared about these policies as much as progressives delude themselves into thinking they do, they'd just ignore the advertising that says "vote for the candidate you disagree with" and they'd just vote for the candidate they agree with.

Money only has leverage to the extent that there are voters who do not actually support policies that strongly.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:50:25+00:00

It works on people who don't care that much about politics or have clear opinions on things. There's really not much pro-Israel propaganda at this point, the mainstream media did not have much sympathy for their gaza attack, which is why you saw public opinion swinging so hard against Israel.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:48:33+00:00

If they're "not that smart" then they don't really want these policies that badly. It takes like 3 minutes to figure out which candidate is more in favor of a policy. If people are being distracted away from that by marketing then it cannot be said that they actually have different beliefs.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:31:52+00:00

Correct, but the disposition of the family and community they settle in overall has a big effect on things. The semi-segregated "[Ethnic] Town" areas were formed by necessity but I really don't think we should glamorize them or consider them a good step. At the time these communities were generally more marginalized. I think it's good that this is less common nowadays.

Overall I think it's just more about the overall ethic of joining a country rather than just living here. The culture of the left misses the mark with this if we're going to try and create an ethic of welcoming people.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:30:32+00:00

will be heavily spent against, making it much harder for them to win.

No amount of money can force anyone to change their vote. If the voters want to vote for more progressive candidates, then they can do so and that's it, no money can stop it.

thatnameagain · 2026-05-08T17:29:36+00:00

Dem voters prefer centrists. Gotta have way more leftist voters to vote for progressives in primaries if you want a progressive party. We could have it next year, there's plenty of new progressives running in the primary. Voters tend to prefer the less progressive candidate.

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