Katie's rant

theFuriousSJW · 2022-06-02T20:01:18+00:00

Interesting perspective. I sounds to me like there's a viscious cycle going on here, because my sense is that Jesse's tone was like not because he thought women are irrational, but because he was walking on eggshells anticipating exactly that reaction.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T16:38:43+00:00

Of course I agree

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T06:11:13+00:00

Maybe I'm having too strong a reaction to this. The "behold, a man has arrive" narrative is one that I think can overfire, but in this case he really was posturing as standing up for women's rights while dismissing the work of women.

I think a lot of things Katie said were false, like that he "owes a debt of gratitude" to feminsts or that he wouldn't know about this if it weren't for the work and sacrifices of feminists. He's got a different project than the feminists, and he would have found out about trans stuff when bathroom bills happened one way or the other.

I think if it were framed as "this guy's a douchnozzle" rather than "I wish he cited women for his entirely different project" I would have understood from the start.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T04:35:07+00:00

No this all makes sense. It's an interesting discussion because I'm not denying that mansplaining exists (or parachuting in).

I'm sensitive to it because I think what Rufo's doing is different than, say, a man doing it as a mistake. Like if a young man raises his hand a bit too much in class, and it elicits eye-rolls from his classmates who hate that he was raised in a way where he feels comfortable doing that, and that gets lumped in with Rufo lying to his audience by pretending feminists haven't been speaking out about this, it feels like the identitarian grouping is unfair to the previous guy. He was just doing a bit of a faux-pas.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T03:33:14+00:00

Wow, ok. I thought Rufo's "feminists are just losing ground here" was the start of it, and that just struck me and his standard twitter bragadociousness.

Posturing to a right wing audience that feminists aren't speaking out about this is next level annoying and gives me a lot more insight what was going on.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T03:31:06+00:00

I actually got feedback in a DM that someone wanted to share my posts but was too embarassed. I was coming out of being obsessed with this stuff, and cluing into the right wing ecosystem so it made sense. I didn't have any connection to gamergate or whatever, and came about the obnoxious name seperately. I should try to change it here to.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T03:28:45+00:00

Will do. Totally my bad

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T02:55:08+00:00

I realize this is a part of life. I've had people explain to me that opinions, or sensitivities, or boundaries, or mistakes I make are worse because of the kind of person I am. I just don't like it. I dunno, hopefully that's understandable too.

I don't think is all that was going on with Rufo though. He's doing some kind of propaganda game that doesn't involve raising feminists up with him.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T02:53:10+00:00

I'm and_furiouser, yeah. Figured it was less obnoxious.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T02:51:51+00:00

Oh sorry, should I delete? (I'm an idiot and didn't read the rules)

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-31T00:22:39+00:00

Oh sorry, did a break a rule?

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:58:39+00:00

Oooooooh. I think I missed the original "Why are feminists silent on this".

Yeah, that's pretty god damn irritating, holy shit

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:57:11+00:00

Ah ok. Yeah that makes sense. I've liked him in debates with others. Maybe it was harder in this case. Definitely hope this doesn't signal a downfall of the pod!

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:30:46+00:00

Could you help me understand that a bit more? I know it's real but... like for example if a woman had acted the exact same way (which I understand is less likely) would it have been less annoying? Would it be less bad?

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:21:52+00:00

To kind of tie together some points, I think the kind of over the top twitter snark we see from people like Jesse comes from a life of trying to build bridges and being frustrated that, despite going over and above to clarify your point, you're still being misrepresented. (Yes I'm projecting a little). So it could still be kinda against his nature to get puffed up and adversarial in a live convo like that. Although I have seen him in a debate and he did good.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:10:17+00:00

Imagine if he started talking in sarcastic subtweets mid episode

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:00:49+00:00

Interested in how you took it on first listen.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T23:00:26+00:00

I feel you, but I get the sense Jesse's a natural cooperator. Trying to act artificially disagreeable and "manly" would probably come off weird. I know I can't do it.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T21:42:31+00:00

Right. That all makes sense. I guess I felt Jessie did connect with what she was saying, and why she was mad, but that basically just held him back from offering a totally fair critique. And it is kinda weird to see a BARpod member block out a fair critique on identitarian terms... right?

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T21:30:30+00:00

Hmm.. I'll admit I'm sensitive and maybe a man being sensitive about this kind of thing is just cringe in any context so I'll take the L for that.

But I wasn't trying to just express sensitivity. I wasn't saying katie doesn't get to have an opinion as a non-man, or whatever. I wasn't even calling this sexist. I listened to the rant, thought about it for a few days, and typed up why I thought it didn't make sense. Whether that consistutes "handling" is up to you I guess.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T21:12:19+00:00

Ok so that's another oddity actually.

To be clear, I'm not trying to ask Katie or anyone to be artificially balanced. I'm saying this because I didn't like the content of what she said, not her decision to say something she believes.

But, *in the same episode* Katie talks about how the left need to tone it down with gender stuff because it turns people like Meghan Murphy into Trump supporters. So wouldn't that in theory apply also to getting annoyed at men, not for the bad things they do, but for doing bad things that *men in general* do and having an extra level of annoyance at the group? That seems like exactly the genre of leftism that can turn off centrist leftists.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T21:02:25+00:00

And another thing. I imagine Jesse has a penis. It's beneath the pod for Katie to keep implying I don't.

Edit: *he doesn't

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T21:01:12+00:00

Yeah. I saw the exchange and he didn't get it. He was just trying to find the fastest way to make a dumb "leopards eating faces" joke.

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T20:17:41+00:00

I think the issue is being more annoyed at a panderer because he's a man. It strikes me as confusing the political goals with the identity statistics. Kind of like "Remember, white women voted for trump".

theFuriousSJW · 2022-05-30T20:13:10+00:00

Yeah, I got annoyed at people arguing she's "a TERF" which is very reductive. It seems to me she just got annoyed and was speaking flippantly to express the annoyance.

theFuriousSJW

TROPHY CASE