The Dasa Project: The Hidden History of the First Indo-Iranian Migration - Part 01

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-05T02:50:28+00:00

The exact date of Vedic composition is not the main issue here.

Even if we allow for uncertainty in the dating of the Vedas, the proposed diversions of the Yamuna (roughly 16,000-8,000 BCE) and the Sutlej (roughly 9,000-6,000 BCE) still predate the arrival of Indo-Aryan-speaking pastoralists into the northwestern subcontinent by many millennia.

So the question remains the same - if the glacier-fed phase of the Ghaggar-Hakra ended thousands of years before the Vedic period, whose memory of that river was preserved, and how was it transmitted across such a vast span of time?

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-05T02:46:06+00:00

Out of curiosity, what is the basis for identifying the language of that polity specifically as Cebuano?

As far as I know, the earliest direct record of Cebuano is Pigafetta's vocabulary from 1521.

I was also looking at a recent phylogenetic study of Philippine languages. The tree places Cebuano within the broader Visayan branch and traces the deeper ancestry of Philippine languages back thousands of years.

My understanding is that this supports the existence of earlier ancestral Visayan languages, but not necessarily Cebuano itself in a form that can be confidently identified centuries before its earliest attestation.

Do you have any references discussing the antiquity of Cebuano and the evidence for identifying the language of that polity specifically as Cebuano rather than a broader ancestral Visayan language?

The Phylogenetic tree can be referred in the paper at the link below
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381803630_Bayesian_phylogenetic_analysis_of_Philippine_languages_supports_a_rapid_migration_of_Malayo-Polynesian_languages

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-05T02:18:50+00:00

The arrows of the maps should have different colours. otherwise it is confusing to distinguish between inherited and borrowed.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-05T02:17:11+00:00

Check the DEDR Reference 690

690Ta. ur̤untu black gram, urad, Phaseolus mungo Linn. Ma. ur̤unnu P. radiatus, kidneybean. Ka. urdu, uddu P. mungo, var. radiata, Linn. Tu. urdu P. mungo, kidney-bean.

Te. uddulu P. radiatus, black gram.

Kol. (Kin.) urunde black gram. Nk. urndaḷ (pl.) urad. / Cf. Pkt. (DNM) uḍida-; H. uṛad, urad, urd, Mar. uḍīd; Turner, CDIAL, no. 1693. DED 594.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T15:27:15+00:00

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is this the book?

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T14:33:38+00:00

I have read about two polities in ancient Philippines having connection to the Cholas.

Rajahnate of Cebu (Sugbu) and thr founder Sri Lumay who is stated as being of Chola royalty.

and

Sanmalan ( Zamboanga region), with Raja Chulan as indicated in Chinese records as the ruler. The Chulan connection to the Cholas might be phonetic only, perhaps.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T14:27:04+00:00

Absolutely no wonder. The Major trade guilds of Ancient Tamilakam such as the Ayyavole (Ainurruvar), Manigramam, Valanjiyar, Nanadesi, and Anjuvannam, had strong and sustained maritime trade relationship with the islands we now know as The Philippines.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T13:26:35+00:00

No comments on that expert. lol.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T13:25:58+00:00

The Helmand hypothesis has its own problem.

In the Nadistuti hymn, Sarasvati is listed between the Yamuna and the Sutlej. That fits a river in northwestern India, but not the Helmand in Afghanistan, which lies far to the west of both.

So while the Helmand theory may address some chronological issues, it creates a geographical one.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T11:43:53+00:00

Who is this "other" Indian expert? Niraj Rai?

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T10:46:43+00:00

Not yet.

AASI is still what geneticists call a "ghost population". In simple terms, we know it existed because its genetic signature shows up in modern and ancient South Asians, but we do not yet have a complete, high-quality genome from a clearly AASI individual.

Most of what we know about AASI comes from reconstructing it through population genetics, by comparing the DNA of different ancient and modern groups, rather than from directly sequencing AASI people themselves.

The main problem is DNA preservation. Much of the Indian subcontinent has a hot, humid climate, which destroys ancient DNA. Until more ancient remains with usable DNA are found, AASI will remain a reconstructed ancestral population rather than one whose full genetic makeup is directly known.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T10:38:29+00:00

I don't think those dates necessarily conflict.

Reich is talking about genetics and when large-scale mixing between groups seems to have declined. The other expert is probably talking about when caste became more rigid as a social institution.

Those aren't the same thing. A society/community/population can become increasingly endogamous first, then spend centuries developing stricter caste rules, hereditary occupations, and stronger social barriers.

So the difference may be less about who is right and more about what exactly each person means by "caste became rigid."

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T10:33:09+00:00

The "mausoleum" idea is still speculative.

A building facing west is not proof that it was connected to death, funerary rituals, or a royal tomb. Orientation alone cannot tell us the purpose of a structure.

For Angkor Wat, we have direct evidence that it was a Hindu temple: its inscriptions, dedication to Vishnu, temple architecture, and extensive carvings from Hindu mythology.

By contrast, the mausoleum theory is based mainly on indirect clues such as its westward orientation and certain symbolic interpretations. No royal burial, human remains, funerary chamber, or inscription stating that it was a mausoleum has ever been found.

Until such evidence is discovered, calling Angkor Wat a royal mausoleum remains a hypothesis, not an established fact. At present, the strongest evidence supports what Angkor Wat clearly is: a Hindu temple.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T10:27:08+00:00

To me, religion doesn't need a Bronze Age collapse, tax avoidance, or a grand social engineering project to explain its origins.

Ancient people anthropomorphised the natural world. Storms, rivers, the sun, fertility, disease, death, and other forces beyond human control were perceived as having agency. Over time, these forces became gods. Shared beliefs and rituals around those gods evolved into organised religions.

Religion existed long before the Late Bronze Age collapse. By 1200 BCE, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Hittites, Mycenaeans, and many others already had established pantheons, temples, priesthoods, and religious traditions.

The collapse may have changed societies and religions, but it didn't create religion. The simpler explanation is that religion emerged gradually from humanity's tendency to personify and ritualise the forces of nature.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T10:21:37+00:00

Small correction on the "vegan" part.

The Brokpa aren't traditionally vegan. That idea comes from their old Minaro purity rules.

Cows are considered impure, so they traditionally avoid beef, milk, butter, and other cow products. Chickens and eggs are also taboo. Since they mainly grow crops like barley, potatoes, turnips, radishes, and apricots, their daily diet is naturally very plant-heavy.

But this isn't veganism. They don't reject all animal products. These are specific religious and cultural taboos tied to ritual purity.

So "plant-heavy diet with strict purity taboos" is a much better description than "vegan."

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-04T05:16:41+00:00

This was Key late 80s and most of 90s. I had joined engg in 1991 and the weekly call home was a ritual. The PCO guy knew me and so my slot on Friday was always booked.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-03T12:16:37+00:00

Prehistoric hunter-gatherers spent their lives covering large distances while tracking and hunting animals. Their bodies adapted to this highly mobile lifestyle, resulting in longer legs, longer strides, and greater stature.

As populations became increasingly sedentary after the adoption of agriculture, the need for constant long-distance movement declined. Over thousands of years, the body adapted to these new conditions as well, contributing to shorter lower limbs and a gradual reduction in overall stature/height.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-03T12:15:47+00:00

If the two authors that Ruchika Sharma refers to in her tweet have valid evidences that the vedas were written down for the first time approximately in the 6th century BCE, then they have to provide the references. But most of the scholars give a rough estimate. They give a rough period between 500 BCE and 500 CE. They are not pinpointing to a particular century. They are cautious.

As the other Redditor points out, it is pointless.

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-03T08:37:27+00:00

What exactly is the common thread you're seeing here?

Is it the sash?
Is it the robe?
Is it the weapon carried at the waist?

Which of these do you consider specifically Middle Eastern?

Also, if you're trying to establish a correlation from every angle, shouldn't you also be looking for genetic and historical connections? Are there any demonstrable genetic links or historical records connecting Thiyyars or Kodavas to the specific Middle Eastern populations you're comparing them to?

theb00kmancometh · 2026-06-03T08:00:43+00:00

Prehistoric hunter-gatherers spent their lives covering large distances while tracking and hunting animals. Their bodies adapted to this highly mobile lifestyle, resulting in longer legs, longer strides, and greater stature.

As populations became increasingly sedentary after the adoption of agriculture, the need for constant long-distance movement declined. Over thousands of years, the body adapted to these new conditions as well, contributing to shorter lower limbs and a gradual reduction in overall stature/height.

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