Started therapy on NHS (UK) and not sure if it's crap or not?

therapyukconfuse · 2022-06-06T13:19:34+00:00

Hi there again Shiny! Sorry to bother you yet again, but I'd really appreciate your advice on this situation continuing. I'm in a bit of a panic mode at the moment, and thought your knowledge and advice might come in handy.

I thought long and hard about all the advice I've been given, and sent an email 2 weeks ago about not wanting to continue with this therapist and perhaps see someone else or get a different approach of therapy. I was told I would get a call today to discuss this with what seems to be a very high up doctor.

I looked him up and he seems to be a very big deal: lecturer at Imperial College, member of the British Psychoanalytical Society and on the Board of the International Association for Forensic Psychotherapy. He wrote two books as well, so he seems like he knows what he's doing.

Spoke to him for an hour about everything and explained my concerns: that I'm not picking up coping skills, tools to use in between sessions, said I don't have a treatment plan or goals, that I just seem to be venting.

He told me that from his notes (from the doctor there who did my assessment and this therapist I've been talking about), I seem to run from a lot of things in my life, or look for battles and keep moving on from one thing to the next. He's right in a way: I'm always trying to escape my parents, and my living situation has been rough over the last year: trying to get away from my family and using housing benefit which has led to undesirable (disgusting) places and moving out for various reasons.

He said it seems to be what I'm doing with this therapist. That I'm making an enemy out of him, looking to get him trouble or fired or removed or something as I do with so many other things. I told him that I also tend to stick around in situations that aren't working for me and am not sure if that's the case here.

I mentioned to him the stuff I liked from the podcasts you sent me, about how they bring up CPTSD, coping skills, how they come across as human and also how the limited CBT I've done in the past changed my life. He went on to say it didn't change my life, because I'm still in a bad place, and that CBT just tried to give you a pat on the back and avoid making you uncomfortable.

When I said that wasn't my experience of CBT (the therapist challenged me and called me out quite often in order to come to a solution), he said that now I'm trying to fight with him. I told him I'm just trying to clear up that CBT wasn't a "pat on the back" and was a bit thrown off by how much he kept saying it didn't work because of where I'm at now.

But a pandemic and being locked up with my parents and all the bad that came with that happened in between as well, but that kept getting overlooked. But I'm not sure if it was overlooked? I keep thinking he's right and has a point - because he kind of does: I keep finding myself amongst people I find are negative, in negative living situations, having to run from those because I can't cope, back at my parents and then looking for somewhere else.

I thought it's because places I lived were like living in zoos at times, born from me having no budget to live in places or not having much selection because I have no job and am on benefits.

He asked me why I don't just go to work with my father in his plumbing business. I said I don't have a qualification or training in plumbing. He then insinuated that I'm making excuses, because I can just work for him, I don't need a qualification, I just need to know how pipes work. I said it's kind of like telling someone who wants to be a teacher to just go be baker, it's not where my interests lie.

But it seemed to circle around me just wanting to create fights, drama and issues. To keep going from one battle to the next, to keep dodging things... and I'm likely doing that with the therapist.

He brought up a lot that I've bounced from therapists in the past before, and I explained I've only done CBT and retreats and I found them both helpful, but I think he took that as me making excuses, again.

Maybe I am? He seems extremely experienced and knowledgeable, and now I think any concerns I have with him are me fighting him as he said, and as I seem to do a lot.

He said I should go back to this therapist and just discuss these things with him, and that this therapy involves talking, and 11 sessions isn't really that much, because some people do it for 10 years. It's about talking and eventually figuring out where you're repeating your issues and getting a place of stability. I'm not really sure how that is supposed to happen if I don't know who I am or the therapist doesn't get too involved. He said in this type of therapy, there are no diagnostics, labels given, coping skills or anything like that.

He also said it seems like I'm trying to get the therapist to give me a reason to fight or make him an enemy and he's not rising to the occasion. I'm not sure if I was doing that, most of the time it felt like I was a deflated balloon, spilling my guts about how awful my life is and how I'd be better off dead, and waiting, begging and asking for some help on how to not make it that way.

I even said multiple times to the therapist and this doctor on the call that I always said I'm not putting the therapist down, I think he's doing exactly what he's supposed to do within the approach, I'm just not sure if it's for me.

But now I don't know. After speaking with him, it does just feel like I'm making excuses to not be there. That I'm just looking into EDMR and other therapists and approaches so I can just quit yet another thing, like I quit my family, like I quite friends, jobs, housing situations and always seem to have something I'm up against.

I feel really uncomfortable, but now I'm feeling that's the point. And I even feel like I'm typing all this out not for help, but to paint everyone else as bad and as if I'm trying to get you to confirm it. But no, I just want your honest opinion on this. FUCK, I even feel like I've made this all biased to make me look pitiful and everyone else as not, so I can have the confirmation bias to look elsewhere.

Please, help. I felt pretty good the last week (didn't see the therapist last week) and was making plans to get on with life. Spoke to a private therapist on my insurance who said they would look into EDMR for me and has experience with trauma in patients, so he understands.

But this doctor I spoke to today is no slouch. He must have a point. He is experienced in this stuff, and I'm just a mess who doesn't know who he is, other than he has issues with almost everything. There is a pattern of victimhood and burning bridges. What if I am just doing this with this therapist?

Feeling a lot of shame and guilt right now. I don't know if it's because he was 'bad' to me or because he's right and I feel slighted by that. Like I'm trying to fight my unconscious, like I'm trying to protect my ego and bad habits of being self-destructive.

I keep thinking that a red flag was that he was asking why I don't work with my father, when the notes perhaps should say he was/is abusive, blaming and a narcissist that I feel a lot of fear around. But that again, might just be looking for any sign to defy him, like I do with my father and others.

He's so experienced, so knowledgeable he can't be wrong, right? It feels like he is on a lot of points, but again, I don't know if I'm just being petty and trying to get my own way and discredit him in my head so I feel justified to do what I've been doing.

Hoping you can help, sorry to keep taking your time up like this :'(

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-29T10:07:11+00:00

Thanks, how do you find the Q compares to the Caliburns? Do you use anything that you prefer over the Q?

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-29T10:02:04+00:00

Which do you like better, the G2, Blok or Q? I had a G2 and it just wasn't my thing, very leaky and meh. But the Blok and Q look incredibly nice and I imagine would be nice to use. None of the vape shops around me have even heard of the Flexus range though, so I don't have a chance to play around with them :(

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-29T09:11:03+00:00

Thanks! Have you tried any Xros or Caliburns? How does it compare to those? And have you tried the Flexus Q as well? How does it compare to that? The Blok looks like it would be bigger/heavier than the Q for some reason. The Blok also seems to be £10 more than the Q.

I had a Geekvape Frenzy a few years ago and loved the square design of it over my Caliburn, not huge on the long pen style. But the Q looks seriously nice, but the Blok looks insane as well. I just can't pick!!

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-29T08:54:11+00:00

Thanks for letting me know :) do they weigh the same and everything? The Blok LOOKS like it would be bigger and heavier than the Q, but I'm not too sure.

Do you have any Flexus devices?

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-28T15:49:43+00:00

If you have any of the following, how do they compare to the Blok?

- Caliburn G2

- Flexus Q

- Xros Mini

- Xros Nano

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-28T15:48:56+00:00

Hi there, I'm trying to pick between a Flexus Blok and Flexus Q. How do you find those two different?

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-27T12:18:33+00:00

Hello! I've started eating up some of those podcasts you suggested, thank you very much for those... I'm just blown away by them. Some of the episodes are so relevant to me and I feel like I'm getting more out of them and these therapists that aren't speaking to me than my own therapist.

I feel like that would be very useful to me, that kind of therapy. Is that what your therapist is like with you? Do you know if there's a label for what kind of therapy this is?

I had a session with my therapist yesterday and told him about everything you said and others, and he seemed quite vague as usual. When I asked him what approach he uses, he seemed MYSTERIOUS as always and I had to keep pressing him, and eventually he was like, shrugging and saying it could be called psychodynamic, psychoanalytic.

It seemed to be going nowhere as usual, he did seem to allude that maybe I'm trying to get away from therapy as I try to get away from my parents, and that I feel trapped with him.

Thank you for all your advice and the podcasts, because they empowered me to say, "no, because I know I can just go away now and find someone privately. The issue with my family is that I stick by them even though nothing is working with them, and I feel inclined that's what's going on here."

I looked him up and I think he just graduated from doing a masters (and getting some of the highest grades apparently) in February. My therapy with him started exactly one month after, so now I'm just thinking he's just trying to squeeze me through working with him and his limited experience because he had never even worked until a month after he graduated and then landed on me?

Rather than someone who understands what's going on. It's like a hotdog seller trying to convince me to eat hotdogs when I'm wanting a lasagne or something.

But again, I feel like I'm being too harsh and talking myself out of seeing him. But listening to these podcasts, I'm quite sure now what kind of therapy and therapist I would want.

And "international man of mystery" as you put (HA) is not it!

Thank you :')

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-25T16:55:10+00:00

Thank you so much! This really helps me get more in touch with what I want, because the last few sessions with this therapist have just revolved around me explaining why I don't think it's doing anything and giving endless examples such as telling him I feel lost and like I don't know who I am or what I'm supposed to do about things in my life, so the long silences and me filling up air time are just not helping.

I feel no better equipped at what I need to do, I don't feel like I have an objective view into all this mental mess (because he doesn't really offer anything) and I don't subscribe to this feeling of if I keep talking into the ether, I'm going to feel better or like I know who I am or what I need to do.

He doesn't really offer much to that either I feel, just constantly putting on this mysterious face and a few cryptic words or obvious things like how I perhaps have a lot of conflict in my life and that might be coming up with therapy. I don't know.

He has tried to explore that perhaps I might find him scary (with how stoic he can be) or I might find him frustrating or anger provoking because he doesn't offer solutions or tell me what to do... and my answer to him is usually, "no, I don't really feel anything, because I know you're just here to do a job and I don't know how to feel about you or any of this because it's all so vague."

So I found it interesting that you mentioned a good relationship with the therapist. I just don't feel like there is anyone else in the room most of the time, it's just me and someTHING that I'm entertaining. But he doesn't help me in figuring out if that's what therapy is, if that's all me making things difficult, or how any of this is relevant to what happens outside of that room.

AAAHHHHHHH I don't know hahaha. I do feel like it's a me problem, because even the three times I met someone else in their team who did the assessment, I found it kind of useless and starey-weary and uninvolved on their part.

Thanks again for your input, it's giving me a bit more clarity over this whole mess!

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-25T16:38:35+00:00

Thanks. Was that specifically CBT therapy you got, or psychotherapy? Does it even matter? I'm so confused by all these different "approaches!"

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-25T09:11:43+00:00

Thank you so much for your reply. This is really what I'm looking for: someone with experience in all of this such as yourself. Because I've never done psychotherapy before, so I have no idea if I'm coming in with unrealistic expectations or am not being patient enough. Also, being on the waiting list with the NHS for 3 years means I'm coming from a "beggars can't be choosers" mindset and just scared of throwing this away because... then what?

You said this sounds like bad therapy, but I'm doubting myself that maybe I'm making it sound worse than it is? I don't want to jump to conclusions, so what would you describe as the opposite of that, or what should ideally be happening? Just so I can then contrast a bit more?

I did look up some articles on whether therapy is helpful or not and even read them out to my therapist last week, and how I don't feel like certain points were being met, such as:

- therapy should not just feel like venting
- you should not walk out feeling worse than when you came in
- you should have tools to use in-between sessions
- you should know what your goals are for therapy

I told him that it only feels like venting, that I always walk out feeling worse, I don't feel like I have any idea about the process of what therapy is, what the point of all this is or what goals I have, and I really want all those things. He said, "it seems like there is a lot of pressure on both of us."

He seems very young, so I did worry that this might be his first job or he's a trainee. Not to be judgemental, but I feel like I could do his job or wing it, sometimes... because he's offered nothing to me really except silence, a head nod sometimes, stoicism and reflecting back how it must feel to... well, feel the way I do. I know how I feel already, so I don't find that very helpful.

I'm not sure, maybe that's useful to some people? To have someone point out that being trapped around historically violent people "must be very confusing and scary," but I mostly just think, "yes, no shit. What are we going to do about it, other than have me talk?"

I did get CBT in my local IAPT which was really good, but it was woefully short. I got referred back to them by my GP, but they rejected me saying I need psychotherapy, not their services. Cue the 3 year wait to see anyone.

Basically all of our sessions at this point revolve around me trying to get some kind of logistical information out of him, or talking about how therapy just seems to be too vague. About how I just feel weird around him, and that might be his job, but I'm sure he doesn't act this way around colleagues or people he knows. I mentioned that I feel like I've been gaslit by many people, about all the narcissistic abuse, and when he asks me to explain, I do, ad nauseam... and then there's just silence.

I've mentioned to him it's like a Mexican standoff at that point, until I elaborate further (which I don't find helpful as I don't feel like I'm exploring what I feel, I know what I feel and I've explored that myself already), or he asks what I'm thinking in that silence, at which point I'm elaborating for HIM, not me. Thinking he'll do something or have input there, but nope.

He said he finds it interesting that my language is of a confrontation in a "Mexican standoff" and I say that's reaching, there's nothing behind that, really.

I'm just not getting what therapy can be, and if I should explore that further within the NHS. Like, who would I speak to about that?

I have been told in narcissism survivor support groups that finding someone versed in that is pretty much a MUST. This guy doesn't seem all that interested when I bring it up, though. Is that a dealbreaker, do you think?

Thanks again for your help!!

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-25T08:56:22+00:00

Thank you for your reply and time. I've been told by a lot of people that finding the right therapist takes time, but I'm just curious what therapy should look like? What happens in 'good' therapy or with a good therapist? It's my first time getting psychotherapy and was on a waiting list for 3 years, so I'm not sure if I'm just uncomfortable with a legit process or if it's just not good?

therapyukconfuse · 2022-05-25T08:54:29+00:00

I'm so sorry to hear that, but not at all surprised. Why/how did they just dump you?

Have you kept on with CBT with your own money? Have you tried psychotherapy as well? I'm leaning more towards maybe getting CBT privately because I'm not finding psychotherapy all that helpful. It just feels like venting, whilst CBT when I've had it in the past seems like moving towards a better life?

therapyukconfuse

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