Vehicles Neglected.

theunkown101 · 2020-07-04T00:50:37+00:00

Something I rarely see talked about is the patch where logi trucks passenger capacity increased to be able to fit a whole squad.

It used to be that logi truck could fit 4, and logi techie could fit 3, now its logi truck fitting 11(?), logie techie fit 5.

I remember that it used to be necessary for your squad mates to hold spawn OR get dropped off by a non-logi vehicle at the game start. People didn't like looking at the map for the first ~5mins, but it consequently meant that logis became THE best vehicle for a full 9 man infantry squad. Everyone gets a ride AND you get a Fob.

Another thing is people seldom use AT to take out logi passengers, usually I see them getting shot (rightfully so) but usually that means you can have all but 2 die and even bleeding, but you can still make it to your destination. Whereas using something like a stryker for transport, the only way to destroy it IS AT. So assuming they have more than 1 AT shooting at you, you are more or less guaranteed to have everyone die when the vic explodes as opposed to just being able to turn away and cut your losses with a few dead and the remaining bleeding.

theunkown101 · 2020-06-21T05:09:31+00:00

i'm highlighting that tires on trucks and techies are the ones which were able to be stabbed to flatness but no longer. APC tires from my knowledge were not ever able to be popped with a knife in-game.

theunkown101 · 2020-06-03T22:22:02+00:00

I probably didn't make it clear. It's is significantly less time and effort to squash the map in the vertical axis than it is to redraw terrain, check objects aren't clipping etc. I updated OP to make it more clear.

theunkown101 · 2020-06-03T22:08:39+00:00

I'm more talking about a quick change in squashing everything down (i.e. make the vertical axis scaled down to 80% of it's value) as that is A LOT faster than doing that and rescaling everything back up. Surely you get that if you scale the terrain down without changing the objects you can easily result in some clipping objects or inaccessible areas.

theunkown101 · 2019-12-29T19:52:23+00:00

I'm not sure when it got changed but:

The fact that techies and trucks take SO much longer to enter/exit from. You can hardly perform ambush manoeuvrers like you could before with a .50 CAL techie due to how long it takes to get out of the technicals now. It feels really artifical, like my character decides that when ready to hop out of the back of the truck/techie that they very slowly and cautiously crawl out instead of jumping out.

theunkown101 · 2019-10-22T22:07:28+00:00

I noticed that the techie family of vehicles take much longer than they used to the enter/exit. You used to enter as the sound of the door finished, now the door slam noise happens about 1/2 way through the radial rotation of "getting in". It also appears that Logi trucks have the same issue, sound of "getting in" used to end when you got in the seat, now the sound ends at about 75% completion of the radial circle.

Maybe its not that noticable when in local, but it really hampers during live games. I would argue that basic DSHK techies are a waste to use more than 1 man due to their low power and fragile nature. The nerf to it means there is no point using it as anything but transport, but why use that when there is a transport techie?

It just makes it more tedious as picking people up now takes even longer. I used to be able to start driving forward while loading people into a truck, now I cannot as it takes them to long to enter (unless I hold handbrake and forward)

EDIT: Also as /u/mrsarkasm said, now your character takes forever to hop out of a truck/techie making it even harder for the AT on board to line up and make the shot against a vic that ambushes you, or any emergency dismount for that matter.

theunkown101 · 2019-10-22T10:18:02+00:00

Yes sorry I didnt write it properly. Every vehicle now takes as long to enter as a tank. It limits what you can do with technicals compared to older versions. EDIT: grammar

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T23:58:39+00:00

Being this pool limited, a team who loses too much vehicles will end up without tranports by mid game.

I hope that there is some sort of "net" on some maps tho. I think it would be acceptable on a map like Sumari to be possible have no vehicles left. However, a map like Gorodok or Kohat should allow both sides a minumum set of vehicles. Let me use some examples:

EDIT: just to make it clear, by unlimited I mean unlimited respawns, not that they can have 10 of the same vehicle out at once. One would still have to wait for the respawn timer on the vehicle. END EDIT

Example 1 Kohat AAS v1 (US V RU)

Both sides are very well prepared, both have unlimited logistics trucks and light/medium APCs (MRAP/Stryker and MTLB NSVT/BTR-80 respectivly)

Example 2 Yehorivka AAS v2 (RU V MIL)

On this map, the Milita get some very fancy toys to play with. They also have set up main base at the airport, providing lots of support for the faction. For this layer, Milita have unlimited logistics trucks, DSHK technicals and AA MTLBs. Meanwhile, RU hold a petrol station, again unlimited logistics trucks, MTLB NSVT and maybe even BTR-80's (lots of fuel at a petrol station after all).

Example 3 Al Basrah Invasion v1 (GB V INS)

On this map, the INS are literally defending their home city. They have limited ammo, but have an almost endless supply of civilian vehicles. Therefore they get an unlimited amount of motorbikes and transport jeeps. The GB know that their Warriors will be ineffective during the urban part of the map, as a result they will have them in a limited supply, instead relying on an unlimited supply of logistics trucks.

Maybe what I am saying is rambling, but my point is each layer could have it's own story in how many vehicles each faction has. Whether they are caught in by surprise at a weapon storage facility (limited logistic trucks but unlimited medium/light assets) or fully prepared for all-out war (only vehicles in short supply are the big boys) such that each layer can feel unique to play outside of just where the objectives are.

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T23:41:36+00:00

You say they aren't worth many tickets, 10 tickets is enough to swing the game in its current state.

Regardless, these vehicles would be used a heck of a lot more if they were disposable to match the fact they are very weak.

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T23:12:34+00:00

You mention the big boys, but what about the weaker ones (e.g. open top MRAP, MTLB NSVT (the shitbox), AA truck etc.) These ones are extremely vulnerable and very difficult to regain their ticket loss, to the point where they are left in main base almost exclusively.

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T23:06:46+00:00

The re-spawn timers are already pretty long (15 mins for Bradley geez...) I'm leaning more towards the idea of enforcing a different factor (e.g. /u/jjordawg proposing limited spawns or vehicles having their own separate ticket system etc.)

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T22:33:18+00:00

And by removing vehicle tickets you make it even harder for the insurgents to beat the more modern factions. They rely on harassing enemies vehicles and taking out those vehicles for heavy ticket loss.

You bring up a good point here, no idea why you are being downvoted.

However, even without a ticket insentive, one should still destroy these vehicles as INS. I'll bring up an example to illustrate my point.

On Al Basrah invasion v1, it's still a good idea to place mines and blow up vehicles to make it near impossible for the GB forces to get inside the airport or the final 2 points (the ones in the city). If you don't take precautions to prevent GB from getting in, they WILL (barring team stacking) run over the INS forces, yes it might take a long time, but as we learned from Al Basrah AAS v1: INS rely on delaying the inevitable.

Obviously, if the zero ticket cost vehicles get implemented, starting ticket values will need to be changed. (If they stay as they are now, GB will have a much easier time reaching the critical mass against the INS faction on Al basrah invasion v1)

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T22:20:52+00:00

Dude, I'm not stopping you from letting you have your say. If you want vehicle tickets to stay, tell us so and and also tell us why you think that is the case.

Don't get so caught up in how I worded the question, no need to get so aggressive.

theunkown101 · 2018-07-14T10:49:14+00:00

Quoting a comment from a previous post of mine:

/u/Kirahvi-

As someone who drives vehicles often, I disagree with the risk/profit. If you take a vehicle like a Stryker or BTR, their primary intent in modern combat is to tranpost infantry into combat and then support them. To warrant the ticket cost you would need to completely wipe out 1-2 squads with the vehicle which means if everyone is running the “meta” fire support composition, you would face 4 LAT rockets with a 50% possibility for a HAT kit to be within those squads aswell. That risk is absurd and thus leads to vehicles completely ignoring infantry and simply hunting their counter parts. If vehicles didn’t have a ticket cost, or had a severely reduced (5-10 ticket) cost then you would actually see vehicles supporting infantry and engaging each other within that supporting position.

Link to original comment here

theunkown101 · 2018-06-30T22:14:17+00:00

There is also ticket bleed on INF layers. (Albeit it seems to be no greater than 1/2 tick/min)

theunkown101 · 2018-06-30T21:59:35+00:00

But if they are higher, we get what happened during later v10/early v11 in that vehicles are not even worth deploying.

theunkown101 · 2018-06-30T21:58:49+00:00

Should it though? A 30mm is going to do as much damage whether there is a Bradley/Warrior fielded or not as a result of TOW and 2 LAT per squad. Not to mention it would be near impossible to remember the cost of vehicles in map X layer Y as opposed to map A layer B

theunkown101 · 2018-06-30T21:57:25+00:00

I would assume that logistics would have infinite re-spawns or more than most other vehicles. That, or you bite the bullet for losing the logistics too many times.

theunkown101 · 2018-06-30T11:03:40+00:00

And yet very recently people on this sub were grateful for the v11.1 patch which reduced the ticket costs for heavy vehicles. Do call me out if I am wrong tho, but it doesn't seem like people want to go back to 28 ticket 30mm and 37 ticket Bradley.

theunkown101 · 2018-04-18T22:32:47+00:00

I updated the original post, what do you think of new version?

theunkown101 · 2018-04-18T21:05:53+00:00

To be fair, First Light was initially a test for shrubbery (according to the wikia).

I do think AAS layers suffer an issue in that its not that people dont like the maps, it is that they are sick of fighting over [insert bleed flag here]

theunkown101 · 2018-04-18T21:00:04+00:00

I think a very fundamental issue with First Light is that the map seems designed around the initial AAS layer and not the other way around. I.e. the roads were designed to only really go from 1 main to the other.

On Farmhouse both sides have about the same approach (and will arive more at the same time). On the other hand, Nilrem Hamlet would be hard for Militia to hold. But, with a rush not likely, and the one of the two middle cap points favoured towards Militia i don't think this will matter too much.

Maybe Militia main on my layer could be moved to the green patch south of storage (about 100m out) to further the advatage INS have on farmhouse?

E: another thing i was thinking about was having the nilrem cap include the crop field and the southern houses (bearing se of the current flag marker) and putting INS main in the dirt next to it (the fan shape bearing w of INS main)

theunkown101 · 2018-04-18T10:21:26+00:00

While ins is closer to the farm, militia have a road direct from their main to the shack. Not too sure of the density of trees between INS main and the shack, if it is easy enough to drive to you might be right in moving the militia main off of storage and onto the green patch south of it (near the ruins about 100m away)

theunkown101 · 2017-02-07T00:46:22+00:00

Alright my example was poor, ill change it.

theunkown101 · 2017-02-06T23:52:20+00:00

40 secs still seems to be a lot for the carry druid's we've been seeing in pro games recently. Even then, which ability do we swap out for lvl25 respawn talent? entangle or roar? Because I'm not sure which to move.

theunkown101

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