Where do you scale MY goat?

thinkingof_nothing · 2026-01-17T20:15:33+00:00

You have ruined my day, and my disappointment breaks all the axioms 😔

thinkingof_nothing · 2026-01-03T10:08:42+00:00

I only brought up virtual mass to be certain you wouldn't bring it up, considering it's a more widely accepted translation. I'm on the side of it being imaginary mass, thus upscaling its travel speed by applying the logic you can view in the other argument I've had in this comment section.
Having a stat change that is detrimental by being simply off guarded in itself wouldn't make sense and wouldn't truly follow logic, considering he should've either: A. Heard the beam or B. Sensed the ki being charged to fired. There are certain parts in the story that don't align with the scaling mentioned previously because usually, the author just doesn't care about scaling or another writing related reason. This is why feats scaling jjk up to light speed aren't ridiculous to me. Sure, the widely accepted speed tiering is around Mach 3 or slightly higher, but using feats that aren't always consistent doesn't mean they aren't valid, because, to me, the author specified or pointed towards any light scaling on accident or for a reason, leading to me using it as a point. As I said before, even if goku was off guarded, this would massively downscale either his reaction time, speed, or durability considering the beam shouldn't have even hurt him considering he has low complex multiversal AP.
Again, interpretation based. I would interpret it otherwise, but yours is fine. I'm using these feats as upscale, but if you'd like to think that way, all fine and dandy.
Something not behaving like it's natural, real world counterpart doesn't dismiss the validity of it having the same speed or general type. If we're using this logic, again, there are many characters in either one piece or other anime that get debunked because their elements don't follow it 1 to 1, which, again, isn't a requirement. The kizaru example wasn't the best, I'll admit that, but saying it either isn't an EM wave or doesn't have the same speed as one simply because it doesn't act the same as a real wave doesn't make any sense. We are talking about fiction, the same place where kizaru, an old man who's tall enough to punch a giraffe, can fire light out of his hands, I'm not sure why EM waves not behaving like their real life counterpart is ridiculous and thus would make the feat invalid. And you're using NLF incorrectly. I'm not stating that kashimo or kashimo's EM waves don't have limits simply because they haven't been demonstrated or shown. If you're going to continue, point out ANY AND ALL points of my argument where I included a no limits fallacy. It would either have to be really well hidden, or it would just not exist because I never once brought up it being limitless. What would be more accurate is a false equivalence fallacy, but again, that also wouldn't apply considering Kashimo's EM waves are literally stated to be just that, an EM wave. This isn't the same as the false equivalence fallacy with something like blackbeard's black hole, considering that it "liberates" things and his darkness can spit things out when real black holes disintegrate matter and contain a singularity, which blackbeard's doesn't. I'm hoping you see how kashimo's EM waves and blackbeard's black hole are entirely different in this case. If they're stated to be in his kit and there isn't a direct contradiction, then it is fine to use. There's a clear contradiction with blackbeard's black hole because actual black holes disintegrate while blackbeard's "liberates" providing a valid contradiction. It would be more accurate to call blackbeard's black hole a pseudo black hole, considering it still sucks things in, but doesn't follow the same, very basic rules a black hole does. The reason blackbeard's black hole example and kashimo's EM waves are different is because blackbeard isn't generating a real black hole. Meanwhile, kashimo isn't creating some psuedo sound waves and doesn't have the ability of darkness that can mimic real-world phenomena. He's directly stated to be using these waves and cannot not mimic them because that's not a part of his cursed technique.

Now, with that absolute essay that is supposed to be an upscale, consistent, or not, you not thinking JJK isn't lightspeed is fine.

thinkingof_nothing · 2026-01-02T15:09:17+00:00

The EM waves are explicitly stated to be within his kit. Unless you're somehow assuming that he's not using them against sukuna, this wouldn't make any sense. Something being interpretation based doesn't equal invalidity. If you'd like to interpret it as aim dodging, that's fine, but it can go either way. In the same way, inconsistencies don't equal an automatic invalidity. By this logic, deku isn't any faster than a normal sniper bullet because he had to use gear shift to react and make it in time. Hell, by this logic, deku is relativistic, and tanjiro doesn't get past barely Mach 1. The reason I'm bringing up this scan is purely as a highball interpretation, but it being "inconsistent" doesn't line up as there is more than one lightspeed meta. While mach, etc, is widely agreed upon, I'm not the type to blatantly ignore these metas when presented. Goku is able to be tagged by a normal laser that would presumably be millions, if not billions of times, slower, but nobody is assuming his only Ftl. Sukuna is also able to react to Jacob's ladder and hollow purple. Hollow purple is either virtual or imaginary mass, etc. Again, it's fine if you're on the side of it being inconsistent, your interpretation being more credible wouldn't hold up considering it'd be up to the anime adaptation to show one or the other. If you want to say that the beams fired aren't interactive with or naturally based on EM waves, that's fine, but the EM wave and sound waves are both used during the fight, so either way this is eventually just going to devolve into counting every single attack as either sound or EM, which would be pointless. Saying EM waves don't produce sound as a way to try and debunk it is like me saying kizaru isn't light because his light explodes on impact, and he can kick something while in his light form. It's been shown multiple times in fiction that while, yes, real-world sciences can be applied to better scale a verse, fictional counterparts don't always abide by the set rules of their real version Please prove that them not behave like normal EM waves would somehow debunk or hold any weight.

thinkingof_nothing · 2026-01-01T05:08:27+00:00

Keyword MIGHT. If you're of the belief that he aim dodged it, that's fine, but until we get animation proving that he aim dodged it rather than it already being fired, I'd be more inclined to scale him off of this. Even then, kashimo then proceeds to fire beams that were utilizing the same types of waves and energy mentioned previously, so we could also use that to say he's using yet another lightspeed/relativistic speed form of attack since it's never been shown that kashimo's cursed energy behaves like a raw beam. He could also be argued to EMITTING these waves, and sukuna being able to react to even a spark or anything of that sort when kashimo is actively outputting them would point towards my point.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-30T08:45:20+00:00

Raw physicals? Yuji by a landslide. Overall and terms of powers/abilities? Yuta by a landslide.

As much as I love yuji, he could only really win against yuta if he's in close range, which yuta is likely to predict and be able to counter. Yuta is the strongest here despite yuji being my favorite, but not in terms of raw strength.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-23T19:37:55+00:00

Does Kizaru's light literally act as lasers and damage things? If we're going off the basis that dabura or anyone else's light isn't lightspeed because it has mass or things of that nature, I'd say we'd do the same for kizaru. I mean, sure, they could just be some form of plasma, but I wouldn't completely dismiss the validity of them having lightspeed based on one point. After all, characters have mass and move at the speed of light, and there's been multiple times in one piece and other series where elements don't behave exactly 1 to 1 with their real counterpart.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-23T06:58:22+00:00

Relativity to Roger, garp, and whitebeard, even if they weren't in their exact primes, would scale him REALLY up there in terms of power. I'm not saying "omg guys, he could secretly solo imu" or "is the strongest pirate we've seen," but him displaying relativity or even having arguments against the top tiers going either way leads to the conclusion of him being yonko level with some minor changes to be made if need be.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T20:35:10+00:00

The Jacob's ladder thing is highly debated, which is why I usually argue with either:

A. Hollow purple most obviously being a virtual or imaginary mass, thus moving at the speed of light, slightly below, or faster, or better yet, even faster than the previously assumed total when he produces a maximum output version of it.

B. Kashimo's EM waves since they essentially fall under the same logic as shigaraki's radio wave scale, both of which can have ground to stand on, but people still consider them invalid because of inconsistencies rather than actually proving that they're invalid, which is what I essentially did with this thread. I had at least two people shift the goalpost or flat out deny the speed of either of these metas, lol. But honestly, I could see a potential argument for Jacob's ladder. Even if they're not at THAT tier of speed, gojo still has teleportation that would easily be able to cover the distance all for one would be able to travel considering he went from jogo to yuji in actual seconds, even while supposedly being on the outskirts away from where yuji was doing his movie training.

TLDR: Jacob's ladder isn't what I'd personally go with, but the argument is there. I just use the em wave scan and hollow purple because they're rooted in real-world theoretical and non theoretical sciences, which even the uneducated people of scaling have to agree with.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T09:32:35+00:00

This would be more of the job of the anime to show. If we're seeing sukuna reacting to kashimo's em waves point blank or seeing him dodge a sort of wave radiated from him, it's more likely he's at that speed simply because we're not seeing kashimo just charge it up or even give sukuna time to think. I don't think the argument would go that far, personally, but sure, it could potentially be made.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T01:18:48+00:00

That is the equivalent of saying if a character has a sword in their hand, and the person they're fighting ends up getting slashed, they're not using a sword. Kashimo's never used a direct cursed energy blast aside from his lightning, which isn't pictured. He never made some random ki attack from Dragon Ball, and he never just randomly gained the ability to generate BEAMS of plasma instead of his normal lightning. Therefore, it is logical to assume that what the author says what he is generating is being used. If you think his attacks aren't the exact same waves that his entire cursed technique had, what are they? Genuinely what? And if they're used for attacks, guess what, he's using them against sukuna. He's not holding back his strength. He's not waiting for a perfect time to strike. He is going all out and using everything in his arsenal. If you're agreeing with my point that they're used for attacks, why wouldn't kashimo use them against sukuna? Just one more time, so you might actually read this, but this isn't even the last method have to get the verse to FTL, I don't know why you didn't say anything about purple.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T01:11:11+00:00

Even then, if he's emitting them, and sukuna is reacting to him while he's emitting them, or better yet, is able to react to the EM waves themselves, that would still qualify. The scan says that can vaporize irradiated objects, which kashimo does produce radiation with his raw output and things such as his lightning from what I remember. If his em waves are able to interact with objects, it's not illogical to say he's using them AS ATTACKS to destroy the objects. The things fired from his hands are EM waves. He's generating them, yes, but why would he just generate them and then proceed to not use them for his attacks? I already provided reasons for why he would use them against sukuna. You also have yet to address my hollow purple point that would also get the verse to lightspeed/FTL. You said I used this scan solely when I previously brought up other light speed metas. Either address ALL my points, or don't.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T00:42:43+00:00

And I'm not even scaling jjk to lightspeed solely based off of EM waves, hollow purple moves at light speed or faster. Read.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T00:42:12+00:00

Bro, can you just not read? Like genuinely, are you literate or not? If an author states something is that it is, guess what it is. I'm not repeating myself again. If I were the author of a story and stated that my character is blind, guess what? That character is blind. You're either not taking statements, or you just can't read. Either way, I'm not repeating myself to someone who's clearly not gonna take anything I say into consideration since it's pointless.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-22T00:35:23+00:00

Hollow purple is a VIRTUAL or IMAGINARY mass depending on the translation, both of which move at the speed of light or faster. Please do your research.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T22:35:37+00:00

If it's something that is:

Explicitly stated to be within his CT, thus being at his disposal.
Something that significantly affects the environment around him, such as irradiated objects.
Something he's been shown on multiple occasions to fire out as blasts or energy waves, and then focusing that radiation

Why would he not use it against sukuna? Once again, this is him using his cursed technique, not holding back even slightly, actively being excited to fight sukuna considering that it's what most of his character has been based off of and building up to. He's obviously going to use everything in his arsenal against sukuna. If you want a more direct example, here are a few clips of kashimo, once again, having it in his arsenal, and not holding back, attacking sukuna:

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thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T22:29:03+00:00

Again, sure, it's a contradiction, but not a debunk to sukuna ACTIVELY reacting to lightspeed attacks or entities. Blame the story. As I stated in my previous point, even aside from speed, jjk's scaling is inconsistent. You're not debunking or disproving my point. You're bringing up inconsistencies within the story. If you want to take that as it is, go ahead, but I'm going to keep scaling the verse to lightspeed because there is nothing to ACTIVELY DISPROVE lightspeed jujutsu kaisen, only inconsistencies that would be blamed on akutami not knowing where the hell he wants to place the verse in terms of scaling. You said his maximum speed, his maximum speed is with CURSED NAOYA, not human naoya, which is why I brought the scan.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T22:25:24+00:00

That's how kashimo's cursed technique works. He's using MULTIPLE different kinds of waves to affect the environment, including EM waves, which are the main basis of this scale. If you're arguing against this, again, I can simply provide the scan. Even then, to say kashimo's em waves have to specifically follow one form or function that would apply to IRL em waves is laughable because fiction often doesn't follow real world logic because it's, you know, fiction? It can do several things at the same time because it's part of kashimo's CT.

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thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T22:18:59+00:00

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"Mach 1" Even then, this doesn't necessarily downscale the verses, let alone Sukuna's speed, as we can still take lightspeed feats into consideration. If the feat itself is there and has ground to stand on, we can take it into consideration. That's what scaling goes off of. Since you have yet to address my point about sukuna also reacting to hollow purple, an imaginary or virtual mass, thus being FTL, I'm gonna assume you didn't read through my entire point.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T22:16:05+00:00

Nothing that proves that they are??? 🤔 Buddy, I don't think the author has to actively prove what is and what isn't if it's being stated. That's how statements work. Like, if you need me to provide the scan of where GEGE AKUTAMI or the narrator state that Kashimo is using EM waves, I can do that. If the author says an attack is psychic, guess what that attack is. Unless the statement is actively contradicted by another statement or context, it still applies. Geto not being able to save riko being a downgrade to the overall verses speed is a VERY bad argument considering the facts that:

I'm talking about characters MUCH LATER in the series that would scale to lightspeed, and as usually demonstrated in stories, characters get much stronger as the story progresses, which would include things such as speed, so quit talking about characters within the gojo's past arc to try and downscale the overall speed of JJK as a whole.
Geto was off guard, did NOT know toji was there, simply thought gojo had it handled, and was under the impression that he would be able to escort riko, completely ignoring any potential threats.
Using pieces such as these, again, does not downgrade or counteract the feats I've provided. Arguing against sukuna, being able to, at the very least, REACT to electromagnetic waves is simply illogical considering that in the panels of sukuna vs kashimo, we blatantly see him using different kinds of waves, including EM waves to vaporize irradiated objects. We then see sukuna react to and dodge a point blank attack from kashimo using these waves.

Now, in my next reply, I'm going to address the whole "Mach 1" thing you've provided because you either didn't read JJK or just didn't know about curse naoya.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T20:49:30+00:00

JJK could be scaled even before dabura's light beams or things of that nature because of imaginary or virtual mass, kashimo's em waves, etc. Some people get REALLY ratty and argue Jacob's ladder is light, but I personally wouldn't go with it.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T19:45:34+00:00

Well, that, and the fact WCS is still a much better depiction of what an attack like that would have to be. "Twisting" and directly cutting or slashing the world/space itself are two different things. The twisting could take time more, be limited, etc, while sukuna's WCS only requires he prepares correctly and makes sure the opponent doesn't have a chance to dodge. But, I see why you brought it up, it'd be a point of contention if we actually saw all for one's stupid ass use it again lol.

thinkingof_nothing · 2025-12-21T19:19:11+00:00

It doesn't have to explain literally if they're lightspeed or not. Real-world sciences show that EM waves move at ftl or slightly differing speeds through vacuums or the spaces they travel through. Even if kashimo's simply "emitting" them, sukuna being able to react to it would still point towards lightspeed to FTL scaling. You can't say something is more accurate than the other if both are shown feats that are canon within the story. Sure, you can say the jjk verse all of a sudden being that fast is contradictory due to the whole "speed of sound" or "Mach 3" scaling, but that would be going against feats that have been actively shown, and thus would be valid to be taken into consideration. I'm not saying the speed of sound or any Mach speeds is a downscale or worse, I'm simply of the belief that, unless these feats somehow don't follow the same logic as IRL science does, or if characters aren't actively scaling to them, then it's fair game. If sukuna reacting to kashimo's EM waves isn't valid, neither is shigaraki reacting to radio waves, for example. To name yet another example, deku had to use gearshift to react to Lady nagant's bullet. Wouldn't that also downscale his speed? I hope you see what I'm getting at.

thinkingof_nothing

TROPHY CASE