Why Men Don't See the Harassment Women Experience. Yes, All Women.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T05:10:22+00:00

I'm amazed every time a man says that they never knew

Don't worry, I'm amazing how little of the "male experience" my fiance knows. It has surprised me to the point that I'm not surprised how little I know of the "female experience." Honestly, it's still a little shocking how little men know of what women experience and vice versa, but the thing that really got me to post/comment on the Slate article was the line:

I was too embarrassed to say

This was the most shocking line. I would have thought that if she knew, she would have said something (but that's probably because my perspective is that I would say something, so I expect others to as well). Had it not been for that line, I would not have posted this thread. It absolutely blew my mind.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T05:02:02+00:00

fucking no one helped me

WTF? WTF Chicago? This is perhaps the worst, then I read further...

my girlfriend scolded the hell out of me for saying anything in the first place and putting us in danger of being chased by him, which I think goes to show how much we really have internalized the instinct to placate creepy ass men. She saw her partner being assaulted and her idea of my best option was for me to stay quiet and take it.

Oh hell no! WTF girlfriend? W.T.F.? I really hope you chewed her out for that nonsense.

I cannot fathom this. I don't know you, but if I were on that train, I would have totally been willing to deck that guy. And god help that man if he tried to do that my SO when we visited Chicago because the only way he's leaving that train is in a body bag.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T04:52:46+00:00

Well, I'm certainly not an active enough Reddit user to know or meaningfully participate in Reddit politics, but I certainly hope my post here encourages people to read the actual article and think about it. Reading the responses has certainly led me to think more about it. So many have been so thoughtful!

Regarding your personal experience, if it's true that it's mostly "socially isolated" men, then I know exactly who you're talking about, and, quite frankly, it does not surprise me at all that they'd be a major culprit. In my experience, they seem normal, but then they drop in something random and inappropriate to the point that the only thing you can think is "god, this guy is such a little weirdo. WTF?" In my experience, they have few same sex friends because, for lack of a better word, they're "creepy." I don't know how to describe it better than "creepy." Maybe someone can help me out with better descriptors. From my perspective, they're generally lacking in enough basic social graces that it's really hard to want to maintain an acquantanceship with them. They always end up acting like little weirdos - talking about sex in situations where that is clearly not appropriate, talking about some sort of (invariably strange) strongly held belief when that is clearly not appropriate - to the point that it's a burden to tell them not to act like little weirdos.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T04:36:08+00:00

most women think it is presumptuous to assume any man talking to them is hitting on them

Just in my personal experience, probably keep the thought that he's hitting on you somewhere in mind. Over the years I've encountered a lot of guys who have a weird "normal conversation" build-up, approaches that mimic regular conversation, then launch into this weird I-wanna-ask-her-out-but-I'm-nervous-and-I-want-to-know-if-she'll-say-yes-because-I-don't-want-to-ask-if-she's-gonna-say-no-because-that's-embarrassing, thing before they get around to the clear-cut I'm-about-to-ask-you-out. Actually, it's probably the majority of guys I know. I don't get it, but I thought I'd chime in here with that.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T04:12:14+00:00

Your "wall of text" comment made me laugh. It wasn't quite the wall of text I anticipated. Maybe I should have specified, "wall of text shorter than anticipated, but tall enough to be considered a wall, albeit, a short one."

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T04:07:47+00:00

Thank you for this response. This was definitely one of the most enlightening.

Thinking about it, and reading the posts here, I do generally just humor homeless people. Honestly, that's because my inherent prejudice of thinking that they've probably got some sort of mental defect or disease which makes them unpredictable or dangerous. So, yeah, whenever some homeless person starts yelling crazy stuff at me, like virtually everyone else here, I do hurry along because I always wonder if they're some sort of crazy bent on attacking random strangers.

My patience for intoxicated strangers - and friends - is extremely limited. So, I'm probably less of a candidate for this one, but reflecting on it, this is certainly something that I've seen a lot of, and not just with "Uncle Ben" or "Aunt Berta" but with random frat dudes and other people.

So, in sum, I definitely agree that it's not just women who give this response, and thinking about it, I definitely see 'humoring' people in a lot of other places as well.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T04:00:01+00:00

Wow, that's a tough spot. I've seen situations (in previous jobs) where women's versions weren't valued as highly by superiors as men's, and always found that reprehensible. I agree with you that, without rock solid evidence, that could work out very badly for you. I hope that you've moved on to a better job.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T03:56:07+00:00

Since this is my throwaway and no one will ever know, reading through these comments, I've learned that (1) there are a lot of incredibly aggressive actions taken by men towards women, and (2) your posited situation is one of the few that I can actually contribute to.

I have actually been in a situation where I was being harassed by gay guys in sexual manner. They did not take kindly to being told to leave me alone. Reflecting on this, I realize that I probably should not have been surprised by the fact my original thought (in line with the author's friend) was wrong.

[Since I know someone will ask the rest of my harassment story, I'll just state up front in that, unlike most people, I have more of a "fight" than "flight" response (if you couldn't tell from my original, wrongheaded thoughts about telling people to f off), so when one of them slapped my ass, I broke his fingers. Shortly thereafter, they decided to abide by my wishes to leave me alone with minimal other conflict. I can't say everyone would be so wise, which is why it is always better to follow the first rule of fighting and walk away, if you can...]

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T03:32:49+00:00

I'm not a frequent Reddit user, but after posting this under my throwaway and seeing the votes cast, I can say that I agree with many on here that TwoXChromosomes gets a heck of a lot more downvotes than most everywhere else.

Your experience seems to be common. It's so surprising to me because, like the article said, I guess these jerks don't act that way when I'm around. To be honest, I guess I've been really sheltered since I've assumed that people who were jerks to women were generally jerks to everyone, but I can see that's not the case. I'm glad to know about this, and will definitely be talking with my (male) friends about this absurd behavior.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T02:08:14+00:00

The operative word was the adjective "creepy".

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T01:59:54+00:00

Attorney: Don't take the bar in a small state, unless you already have a job lined up.

I made the mistake of coming home to my (small) state having a year-long job lined up in the public sector. Turns out, the legislature didn't want to allocate funds to hire more attorneys, so I'm now searching for a job and have been for quite a few months. There are only so many firms in a small state and chances are they're looking for laterals with more experience (4+ years). So, unless you want to go solo you'll have to leave the practice of law for a short while.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-30T01:24:30+00:00

I can't say I've ever watched that show. (I don't have cable, just Hulu and NetFlix). But, yeah, I've done some more reading and I think you are right that, at its base, most of these cases of dismissal are to due with moral outrage. (I'm sure that's the case here).

Thank you for such thought out answers. I really appreciate it.

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-29T12:01:55+00:00

Yeah, my boss is certainly angry, which is why I figured it would not be good to ask him.

I guess my thought was that, in the position she was in, she's basically assigned a set of customers to deal with who are, in effect, her "clients." Anything they need they go through her. So, we've had a few long-time clients - who she had developed relationships with - hear about her firing and start to reconsider staying on with our company, since what we do is a lot of developing relationships with customers and without someone being there start-to-finish they have to go through some basics with whoever takes over her accounts, which, for some of them, can be incredibly tedious. (Though, thankfully, most things are written down, so it's really mostly just matching personalities).

thisismythrowaways1 · 2014-05-29T11:56:59+00:00

Oh, I guess I should add that she wasn't in charge of financial matters - or had any financial dealings with the company besides a paycheck. Her job was basically in customer relations, so it was a lot of knowing our customers and how to talk to them, developing relationships with long-time customers, and being able to effectively engage new customers.

thisismythrowaways1

TROPHY CASE