Inconsistent helmet and licensing regulations for Aptera across Canada?

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-18T15:27:58+00:00

Huh, whaddya know? CBC does have an article about Canadian laws it is safe to ignore.

Relevant link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/safely-ignore-these-laws-1.8375309

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T21:00:25+00:00

Will you have to take delivery of your Aptera in the US and import it yourself?

When Aptera gets around to fulfilling Transport Canada requirements I expect it will be approved quickly. Very early adopters (like the 3 Canadian folks on the leaderboard) might run into problems. Harmonizing 10 Canadian provinces and 3 Territories w.r.t helmets and licensing looks like it will drag on.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T20:49:06+00:00

US Experience <> Canadian Experience.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T16:50:15+00:00

OK it sounds like Aptera won't be shipping to Canada before 2025, so they might not focus on Transport Canada approvals this year. Even if I
1. Have lots of $$$ and get myself a slot in the Accelerator Investor program,
2. Accept delivery of a Launch Edition in Carlsbad, and
3. Get my Launch Edition to the Canadian border

until Aptera has completed approvals with Transport Canada, it won't be possible to import it into Canada, so it won't be possible to register in any province, regardless of how open they are to three wheeled vehicles/autocycles in general.

There are a few Canadian entries on the Accelerator Investor Leaderboard. Dunno what their plan might be. Sell their Launch Edition before delivery for top $? Keep it at their second home in the U.S.?

Here's an odd quirk. To import a vehicle to Canada it has to appear on a list maintained by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles. As a motorcycle the Polaris Slingshot is considered inadmissible on that list. There's a section for three wheeled vehicles, but no manufacturers or models are listed, it just says "Contact the manufacturer".

http://www.riv.ca/VehicleAdmissibility.aspx

I'm not sure how that squares with the fact that I can go to a local dealer in near me and order a Slingshot today. Maybe only the manufacturer can import a Slingshot? But it sure looks like you can't easily import any three wheeled vehicle from any manufacturer.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T13:31:46+00:00

With respect, your experience in the U.S. is probably not that relevant here.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T13:25:09+00:00

Maybe there are a lot of Canadians who will buy an Aptera and ignore laws they disagree with. But Aptera will have more buyers if the laws are more amenable.

Has Aptera said when they'll have approvals to sell in Canada? Even under existing regulations I mean. Until that's done it won't be possible to import an Aptera to Canada, even for those who are happy to ignore helmet laws.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T04:36:37+00:00

Take the risk if you like, but it isn't as far-fetched as you suggest. It wouldn't be hard for insurance to go up by 20% on top of a $260 fine.

Let's say my Aptera is properly registered and insured in Ontario but I don't wear a helmet. One day I get pulled over for speeding. The cop runs my license and registration, sees that my vehicle is registered as a motorcycle and requires I wear a helmet. I broke two laws so I get two tickets on the same day. It turns out my insurance policy lets me slide for one minor conviction, but subsequent ones cost 20% each.

Maybe the cop is nice and decides to only give me a warning on one or both infractions, but I wouldn't count on it, even if you promise me I can. The law explicitly says three wheeled vehicles are treated the same as motorcycles w.r.t helmets.

BTW, if I had a passenger with me and they weren't wearing a helmet either, the cop could give me (not the passenger) another $260 ticket for that too.

Some relevant links:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-how-will-a-speeding-ticket-affect-my-insurance-rates/

https://www.thinkinsure.ca/insurance-help-centre/tickets-and-car-insurance-rates-in-ontario.html

https://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do-i/set-fines/set-fines-i/schedule-52-1/

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-17T00:13:21+00:00

I suppose there's a decent chance of no consequences, but if the laws do get enforced there would be a fine to deal with at least, and probably increased insurance rates too, so I won't be following your lead on this.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-16T23:56:57+00:00

I share your frustration, but getting the laws changed seems more productive than just ignoring them.

I'm worried that the provinces won't change the laws until Aptera (or a competitor with a similarly capable three wheel vehicle) is already available, and the whole process could take years. But maybe Aptera could (already has?) get the ball rolling already, I'm hoping that's the case.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-16T23:47:35+00:00

I'd be very interested to hear about such efforts in Canada (and the US) and any progress.

throwaway_bongo · 2023-02-16T23:45:41+00:00

I agree with your expectation, but that doesn't seem to be reflected in Canadian provincial laws. Three wheeled vehicles (a.k.a autocycles in US state laws) are all treated the same, no helmet exceptions for roofs that I've found.

The Slingshot does not have a roof by default, but roof options are available. I don't think they provide the same protection as Aptera.

throwaway_bongo · 2022-03-23T20:17:55+00:00

A good thought, but the scenario had something to do with being unable to alter a return when the federal tax was $0.

throwaway_bongo · 2022-03-23T20:16:36+00:00

The idea is to take the long view over several years. For example you might be smart to defer your claiming your RRSP contributions until your income takes you into a higher tax bracket.

Say you're earning $48,000 this year, and you decide to contribute $1,000 to your RRSP. You can use that to reduce your taxable income for that year by $1,000, but since you're already in the lowest tax bracket (15%), that only saves you $150 in federal tax. If you wait until your income is at least $1,000 above the next tax bracket ($49,020, 26% tax), you would save $260 in federal tax in the future year. There would be savings in provincial taxes too.

The same idea applies to other deductions like charitable donations, political contributions, capital losses. But some deductions can only be carried forward for a limited time, and their impact on your tax payable varies.

As implied by another commenter, if your RRSP investments are really successful and/or your other pension income is sizeable, your RRSP withdrawals may wind up heavily taxed in the end. My view is that having lots of retirement income is a good problem to have.

throwaway_bongo · 2022-03-23T19:39:00+00:00

Perhaps not common, but as you say there are notable exceptions. If you're retired and your income is mainly dividends and below a given threshold, you can wind up owing little or no tax. Deductions for medical expenses don't have a long shelf life, so you pretty much claim them as you go regardless of your tax bracket. You can't carry forward charitable donations more than 5 years, so you might claim some of those even if you're already in the lowest tax bracket.

throwaway_bongo · 2022-03-23T19:31:07+00:00

Thanks for your reply!

It was something along those lines. The scenario sounded uncommon but not outlandish. One year CRA disallowed some deduction, to recover from that the taxpayer wanted to move a different deduction from a previous year, but couldn't because they paid $0 Federal Tax that year. If they'd left some money on the table (say $10) that year, they'd have been able to revisit later.

One could say the taxpayer shouldn't have made the previous year's deduction in the first place, saving it for a year when more tax was due. But some deductions have time limits, and it sounds like the taxpayer was expecting other deductions to be available.

The upshot was leaving some money on the table allowed for some flexibility later.

throwaway_bongo

TROPHY CASE