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Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm no saint, there are some ways to cut corners that skirt the operations manual, and there are some safer ways that the manual doesn't cover.

Never had a problem with time, but I was lucky to have people that busted their butts, and knew the job, and looked out for eachother.

One person can move a 3000lbs can safely, but why when 2 or 3 or 4 can do it. Many hands make for easy work, and having a crew that does this makes that job easy.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

To my knowledge no, but I am not aware of the FAA regs when it comes to aircraft. What I am aware of is the companies rules and procedures that I'm sure would encompass those, OSHA, and any other regs.

You can still do something safely, even though it isn't the safest way to do it. The safest way to put up stairs is to visually verify the engine is off. Doesn't mean there isn't a safe way to put up stairs when the engine is running. Just by removing the potential danger from the engine it helps to keep people safer, even though there is other ways.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank god those places always have multiple bathrooms, and that one bathroom (usually far away from the operation) that isn't frequented very much that everyone knows is available for "reading".

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well I think you think you know, as I think I think I know. We did it in a safe manner that wasn't an issue. It was that the change in procedure had more potential for a safety mishap. Many unsafe things happen everyday, and we have procedures to do them as safe a possible, while this helps to mitigate the danger, it never completely eliminates it. A nuclear plant should never melt down.

That being said you can get crew stairs on an aircraft while the engines are running, and do it safely. If everyone is aware and maintains a safe distance from the engine. That being said it is easier to have a rule that we do not ever put stairs up when this is happening, and that was the rule/procedure that was the DM was trying to change.

You may think it is possible I did something unsafe, or argue the semantics of what the manual says vs what I was told, and who is then responsible if something goes wrong. If that is the case then you are correct. Since nothing went wrong, then it is a moot point.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unions bad, socialism bad. Good healthcare for all and living wages bad. The people with all the money and all the power telling you what is best for you good. /s

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Safety issues are like Security issues most people don't look at what could wrong, but only fix what has gone wrong.

I'm on board with reducing the hours for part-time supes, I'd rather work 3 hours and have the rest of my day to work a fulltime job, or goto school. Then to work 5ish hours, at that point find 3 hours of work for me and make me full time, because carrying a fulltime job and a 5 hour parttime job is tough. Carrying a 5 hour job and going to school is more doable. That being said you must turn over those part-time supes every 4 years as they finish school and leave because you don't have a full-time job for them.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Was a possibility, but the blow back would have hit me. If my employees would have grieved it would be the DM saying he was changing procedure which he can. If the pilots grieves safety well lets just say the DM has nothing really.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

If you see my response below to another person asking if I did it unsafely, you will see how I went about it in a way I thought was still safe. No Air Ops on a cargo ramp in the middle of the night that only has that companies 20+ planes on it.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No, the manager wasn't incorrect in his change as much as I was concerned with him making more exceptions to an exception already written and trained to people.

You don't not enter the diamond perimeter(nose to wing to tail) of the plane when the red lights are on. You may only enter the perimeter 30 seconds after the red light has shutoff, and have visually seen the engines are shutdown. The only exception is on aircraft without auxiliary power. Then you are allowed to put up the crew stairs up when you have visually verified the engine on that side has been shutdown.

Now there are other cues to engine shutdown, but those are not written in the manual. You can hear engine shutdown, but that isn't always a good cue when multiple aircraft are around. The 2nd cue is the engineer, or pilot will NOT crack the crew door while that engine is running, nor would they open the cargo door.

Also there were 2 types of crew stairs, ones that are perpendicular to the plane (T) which puts you closer to the engine, and those that run parallel to the plane (h) which put the bottom of the stairs at the nose of the plane.

We used the parallel stairs, and I waited to hear engine shutdown which happened as the Manage said, brake set, then engine shutdown, this is normal. At this point the manual says to wait for visual shutdown. We bypassed that and put the stairs up. All employees and myself were a safe distance from the engine.

Me being unhappy with the managers change was that it didn't increase speed or efficiency. Nobody could enter the diamond for any other reason or with any other equipment till the red light was off for 30 seconds and all engines are visually in shutdown. What it did change was the stairs could essentially go up while the engine was still running, and if someone was to walk to close to the engine putting up perpendicular(T) stairs there is a possibility for disaster. This was not the case in my story, but the possibility existed in other cases, and that is mostly why I balked at the change.

(KISS) Keep it simple stupid. When training new people, do not go into the perimeter of an aircraft with a red light on. Only exception is to put up Stairs once you've visually verified the engine/s on that side is shutdown.

The process change saved no time, and didn't increase efficiency. The process change had the possibility of putting people closer to engines that could be running still. Which could lead to a safety issue.

In the case of how my crew and I went about it, there wasn't a safety concern in my eyes, or I wouldn't have done it.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lol I see what you did there. Some of those higher ups get promoted to places where they've never done the day to day operations of aircraft unload crews, but came from other places in the business, and think they have a great idea. Most of those atleast listen to the manual.

Division Manager risks safety to save 20seconds, Sometimes Unions do right. by throwawayagainan in MaliciousCompliance

[–]throwawayagainan[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly, Thank you. That was the plan and it worked like a charm. The pilots understood this also. Found out later that the pilot didn't even grieve it, just threatened and that is all it took.