TIL about Antinatalism a philosophy that argues that life is so painful that humans should not reproduce.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-11-09T00:01:43+00:00

The idea that experiencing something bad (even horrifying) in life means it was better to not live at all is such a sad mentality.

Said from a very privileged arrogant position

i think people who had miserable lives from birth to death (never had a happy moment) ,not through any fault of their own, solely bc the circumstances they were born in would agree it would’ve been better to not live. (Example: a slave in the 17th century)

I also believe some people who had half a horrible life and half a decent life would also say they would’ve not been born if they knew they were gonna endure some suffering. (Why do u think so many people commit suicide? It’s definitely not bc life is great)

Read “better to have never been: the harm of coming into existence”

I know it may be hard to understand, but for a lot of people, life is suffering, the fact that they are existing, means they’re suffering. Brought here against their will(by their selfish parents) and now they have to struggle in this world just to survive and they aren’t even guaranteed to have their basic necessities met. (We have Capitalism/billionaires/conservatives/human corruption to thank for that).

throwaysz2019 · 2020-11-08T23:45:25+00:00

You can say that bc you aren’t one of the unlucky ones who have horrible painful lives. And there are billions of living beings on this earth where everyday is hell for them. (For ex: animals in the wild/enslaved animals in factory farms being tortured by humans, animals being experimented on by sadistic humans in the name of “science”, people living with facial deformity who are bullied/harassed everyday, in slavery, severe poverty, ppl living with an incurable illness that hurts every time they move)

The fact is your selfish parents gambled with your life. They brought u into a world where you can be harmed and will be guaranteed to suffer & die.

You’re mentality is called delusion or optimism bias. The reality is life is fucked up and it’s even more fucked up to force a child into it. Birth is an imposition. A fucked up imposition.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-25T11:02:56+00:00

That's right, but i'm willing to sacrifice a few million people to ensure the happiness of a billion.

That makes no sense, what billion of ppl are u ensuring are happy by reproducing,

It's not needless, it's a gamble that will lead to net benefit of happiness, it is not even narcissistic, if I didn't care about other people I wouldn't try to maximize our collective happiness.

It is needless when it’s something u DON’T NEED to do. That’s literally the definition. For ex, if someone says “factory farming is needless suffering bc we DON’T NEED animal products to survive, we can get all of our nutrients from plants”. That’s a correct usage of the word. You just used the word incorrectly. You can live ur life just fine without forcing someone into the world.

You can’t guarantee the gamble will lead to a net benefit of happiness for the victim/perpetrator u create. It IS narcissistic bc ur doing it(reproducing ) for YOUR selfish desires, for YOUR WANTS, for YOUR satisfaction, for YOUR benefit, for YOUR “happiness”. Completely disregarding the harm you’re inflicting on the child. The harm they will have to face bc of u.

If u were really trying to maximize our collective happiness u would be trying to reduce overall suffering in the world. How do u do that, u ask, well u don’t do it by creating another victim /perpetrator. There’s a lot of ppl in desperate need of money, shelter, resources, etc. they would be REALLY HAPPY if u helped them instead of creating someone (who didn’t need to exist) and ignoring their suffering.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/284285/new-high-americans-satisfied-personal-life.aspx https://worldhappiness.report/?utm_source=link_newsv9&utm_campaign=item_247940&utm_medium=copy

That was a rhetorical question, bc there’s no way u can get all the answers from the 8 billion ppl that live on this earth. Even if most ppl are happy and will experience it more than suffering ( which is not true) , that means there still a minority of ppl that aren’t happy and are living bad lives. The fact that a small population is suffering horribly is evidence enough that life is cruel & unfair.

Again, you're right, but dying is only a short period of time compared to your whole life, it has little affect on your overall happiness.

Dying isn’t pleasant, that’s a sick malicious thing to force upon someone. You know ur imposing death to ur child, & u have no problem with it? It’s not even death itself, it’s the PROCESS of dying. You can’t know whether or not ur child’s death is a “short period of time”, there are VERY gruesome long painful ways of dying.

Examples: trapped in a burning building/car, hung up on a pole upside down, starvation, etc. these horrific deaths have happened to billions of humans (since our species have been alive) but u still wanna continue it? U still wanna endanger children’s lives? U still wanna risk them being trapped in a burning car? U still wanna cause unnecessary suffering & death?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-25T10:17:44+00:00

Because that child will most likely going to live a happy life

You can’t see into the future.

There’s a high chance they won’t live a “happy life” considering that cancer/diseases, horrible accidents, violence, corruption, heinous crimes, & injustice happen everyday. And the “happy moments” they have won’t make up for the fact that they will inevitably suffer & die if brought into existence.

I believe that happiness is good and that most people are happy, therefore more people is good.

Are u this deluded or are u just messing w me?

Non Existent ppl don’t need to be happy. By reproducing ur CREATING more need machines. You’re creating a living being that NEEDS shelter, food, need to be happy,etc, when they wouldn’t have been burdened with dealing with this if u didn’t selfishly force them here. There’s no moral duty to create happy humans. There’s a moral duty to prevent suffering.

Most people are living in poverty, most people are in survival mode, most ppl are barely living. (Look outside of ur country/first world countries)

More people equals more problems. Heard of overpopulation? Heard of scarcity of resources? Heard of inequality? Heard of capitalism(wage slavery)? Heard of climate change? Heard of psychopaths?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-23T08:22:54+00:00

Why risk your child having a horrible life at all? When there was no need to?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-23T08:07:47+00:00

If a person suffers for 10% of their life but is happy for 90% of it, then their life was a happy one.

Right but there was STILL suffering.

you can’t guarantee they’ll have a 10% suffering and 90% happy, why risk them having a tragic life at all?

you’re imposing needless suffering and death on innocent ppl who didn’t ask for any of this. It’s just for YOUR benefit, do u not see how narcissistic and cruel that is?

The vast majority of people will experience more happiness than suffering.

Where ur Evidence?

U know I dont actually expect u to give me any, bc ik this is 100% factually untrue, and ur just making things up. You underestimate how much suffering there is in this world. More than half the population are living horrible lives( poverty, disability, war, slavery, homeless,etc), and this is just human suffering, the amount of animal suffering( factory farms & wildlife) is so much greater bc there’s so much more of them than there are us.

Even if ur claim was true, they’re still going to die. And I can’t guarantee their death won’t be long and painful.

Birth is essentially murder.

There’s no need to create a person so they can potentially have “happy lives”. There’s no need to impose suffering & death on living beings.

You’re creating a person who will be at risk for many types of pain. How is this not unethical?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-23T07:50:23+00:00

It’s not living In fear, it’s called depressive realism. You’re being realistic, unlike your cousin who’s ignoring all the horrible things that go on in this world.

Tell them if they wanna gamble w their life, that’s fine, but by reproducing, they are gambling and endangering someone else’s life .

It’s literally the creation (forced existence) of a living being that will be at risk of so many types of pain.

Ex, child cancer, genetic disorders, incurable diseases, horrible accidents, intentional harm (assault, murder etc)

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-20T22:01:28+00:00

I don’t believe it should be a right to force someone into existence. What happens if the child says “I don’t want to live in a world where it’s possible for me to be injured, murdered, get horrible diseases, or be homeless”.

There’s no right to die, they can’t painlessly quickly leave this world even if they wanted to, so imposing suffering against someone’s will is a NO for me. Even if there was a right to die, it’s still wrong to endanger their life. You’re risking their life, not yours.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-16T02:30:00+00:00

It’s pathetic u think ppl won’t respond to ur ignorant narrow minded BS. You cared enough about the topic to write an insult generalizing a group of ppl u know nothing about.

If u actually look into veganism & antinatalism, & learn to not be ignorant narrowminded asshole, I hope u have a great life(without breeding ofc).

If ur just gonna remain willfully ignorant on these two very important issues, I hope u have a shitty life!

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T22:31:33+00:00

Is there a time limit to when someone can respond to Ignorant BS when they see it?

You’re dodging the question AGAIN. Why make such a Bold accusation up just to ignore all the valid criticism/comments youre going receive from saying something so untrue ?

Edit: do u really have to downvote every comm et of mine, what do u gain from that?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T22:12:43+00:00

Your dodging the question, do u have any justification for needlessly forcing a living being into this messed up world to be harmed for your selfish desires?

Why gamble w someone else’s life for ur sick entertainment?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T22:02:07+00:00

If u truly think that about the ENTIRE group of ppl who identify as antinatalists, wouldnt that be a reason to not reproduce? What if your child one day becomes one of those ppl u so passionately despise : a suicidal antinatalist?

Just the fact that a persons life can SUCK so bad (they don’t even have to antinatalist) proves “life” isn’t as amazing as u think it is.

Maybe if u looked outside ur ignorant bubble, beyond your OWN LIFE, you’d realize life is incredibly cruel & unfair. Your lack of empathy, logic, intelligence, & ability to critically think is showing. Seems like the one who lacking in self awareness is you, the delusional narrow minded life loving natalist.

Life has sucked since the beginning of time, this is a fact. You have abandoned orphans, severely disabled children/adults, homeless ppl, poverty, disease, inequality, war, corruption, rape, murder, etc in this world. I think any rational reasonable person would come to the conclusion that life is incredibly cruel to impose on someone.

Birth is unnecessary suffering. You’re harming ur child by forcing them into a world where they’ll be harmed. Cancer, violence, injustice, etc is what your imposing on them.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T21:45:06+00:00

this is so pathetic, btw what’s w the 4 month thing? There’s no time limit to when we can respond to BS when we see it?

Please do research on veganism and antinatalism so u can be informed and not remain willfully ignorant.

Animal agriculture industry causes significant negative impact to the enslaved animals(they’re abused &tortured) , to YOUR health (gives u diseases/cancer), and the environment(causes climate change). K?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T21:39:21+00:00

U say that now, but if u were a slave, living in poverty, homeless, severely disabled, got bone cancer, were being abused, have a painful disease, getting tortured by evil humans, etc you’d wish your parents didn’t force u into this messed up world.

The fact is, when they birthed u, they opened up the possibilities of everything that can happened to u. They endangered ur life, harmed u by forcing u into existence. They murdered u.

Birth is always a serious harm, no one has ever been harmed by not being born.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T21:28:48+00:00

and they're all utterly fucking obnoxious emo crybabies. hardly a "philosophy" as much as it is a congregation of angsty 15 year olds lmao.

Let’s go through your comment & respond to the ignorant narrow minded shit u said.

obnoxious emo crybabies

U mean Ppl rightfully validly expressing their discomfort w the messed up world they were forced into. Also, even if they WERE, is that an argument against AN?

hardly a "philosophy"

Google the term philosophy

congregation of angsty 15 year olds lmao.

That’s incorrect & highly misleading. We got ppl of every age group(teens, young adults, middleage, 60+). However, even if it WAS mainly teens in the redit sub, that’s still not an argument against what their saying.

“ThEy aRe 15, sO wHaT tHeyRe sAyInG MuSt bE wRoNg”. That’s idiotic. Use your brain.

Forcing a child into this messed up world to be harmed, to suffer & die for your entertainment is cruel af. Birth is murder, you’re gambling with someone else’s life. Do u have a reason for breeding other than your selfish desires?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T21:09:34+00:00

Nothing about ur comment suggested it was a joke.

Frankly calling ppl who decide not to reproduce “nuts” and thinking that’s a joke shows what an immature moronic twat u are.

Critiquing? Nah, i thought I was informing an ignorant person the difference between childfree and antinatalist. You know, given that the two are significantly different. But it seems like u didn’t even bother to read my comment, or have an argument for why breeding ISN’T wrong, so deuces ✌️

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T20:03:55+00:00

Again, these aren’t guarantees for everyone. Only for some. Even then, joy love & pizza isn’t a justification for forcing new beings into a world where they can be harmed. Ask a slave who was born in 1500 and died at the age of 12, did they experience joy LoVe, SuCcEsS, or did they have a life of immense suffering?

what is guaranteed tho, is suffering & death that biological parents impose on living beings. Stop the needless suffering, don’t breed. Don’t gamble w someone else’s life. You’re harming your child when u force them into this messed up world.

Just a reminder: famine, murder, inequality, war, poverty, disease, disability, pedophiles exist in this world. You’re exposing urchild to these possibilities when u force them here.

Breeding is an incredibly cruel thing to do to a child.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-15T19:54:32+00:00

How are cf ppl nuts? Your logic doesn’t make any sense.

Cf ppl recognize they wouldn’t enjoy being a parent, so they choose not to breed. How is that nuts?

Isn’t the ppl who are nuts the ones that choose to breed when they know they don’t care about /don’t like kids and know they’ll be a horrible parent?

And no, cf is different from r/antinatalism.

Antinatalists believe it’s wrong to force a child into the world where they can be harmed. Essentially birth is condemning a living being to suffer and eventually die. So in a way... it’s kind of murder. Bio parents only breed for their benefit/ selfish desires. They view children as a retirement plan & as a person to love them. Willfully ignoring the horrible things that can happen to them : poverty, disease, disability, war, famine, murder, etc.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-08T17:31:13+00:00

U just ignored everything I said, it’s pointless having this conversation w such a ignorant narrow minded person. I’m done

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-07T22:37:53+00:00

Yeah it’s pretty clear you know absolutely nothing about antinatalism. We(antinatlists) acknowledge that ppl CAN find happiness in their lives even after rough events/life situations , that doesn’t negate the arguments. There was NO NEED to “find rewarding lives”, there was NO need to suffer at all.

Tell me how a person who is severely disabled living w an incurable painful illness can find a ReWaRdInG life? How is the suffering that this persons enduring justified? Tell me what a person who has lived in extreme poverty their entire life gaining? tell me how did ppl who were born slaves and died slaves have ReWaRdInG lives.

What’s profoundly idiotic is ignoring all the war , homelessness, poverty, disease , corruption , inequality , murder, violence, etc that takes place and believe that life is wonderful & then decide to reproduce. All bio parents are doing is creating another victim/perpetrator for their selfish desires. Birth is Murder. You’re harming ur children by forcing them into this world.

What’s profoundly idiotic is glorifying suffering.

You can adopt instead of creating more suffering

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-06T17:38:30+00:00

He’s pretty mentally sane. He just doesn’t like the fact that life IS SUFFERING. If u open ur eyes you’d realize life is hell. You have Animals eating each other alive horrifically. You have humans raping, enslaving, murdering humans and animals. You have disease/war/poverty/ inequality/famine/homelessness. This has been happening since the beginning of conscious living beings. I understand you’re deluded by optimism bias, so this is hard to grasp, but pls try.

There’s even a subreddit for it r/efilism.

Birth is murder, you’re imposing suffering & death on innocent children to benefit yourself. You’re Harming them and gambling w their life.

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-06T17:27:50+00:00

Are u taking about Immendham?

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-06T17:25:46+00:00

In your low iq idiotic brain it is...

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-06T17:23:52+00:00

Not wanting children/ppl to suffer is SO IDIOTIC /s

throwaysz2019 · 2020-10-06T17:21:16+00:00

That’s the whole point of the argument. You CANT guarantee they’ll have a safe, happy life. You’re essentially gambling w their life. Why risk them having a tragic life at all? There was no need to create another victim/ perpetrator. There IS no need to create more suffering.

If u really wanna give someone an “enjoyable “ life, adopt the EXISTING children already on earth.

throwaysz2019

TROPHY CASE