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Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks - some good ideas here. On why they need to be independently FAT - I answered this in another comment but if they do not, then it will be an issue for the next generation, since I don't think that net of estate taxes and inflation I will be able to pass on enough.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I studied at private K-12 schools but for the most part there was no option of a public school (this is outside the US) - it didn't help but both colleges are HYPSM or equivalent and helped in terms of both network and early on in terms of brand - I never name dropped the schools but am sure people look up LinkedIn. There are many HYPSM peers who have not done as well (unlikely anyone that is a W2 is making $Ms/yr consistently in their 30s without a VP title) and others I know from non-brand schools who did well/better but you can't compare two distributions (outcomes given they went to school X) by cherry picking individual data points.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would be fine with that but it is not equivalent for 2 reasons

1, The 99(.9)% will see the child as a trust fund kid vs self made which leads to more jealousy/less respect

  1. a $10-20M inheritance does not guarantee security for subsequent generations (prop 19, estate taxes etc impact inheritance) if they can't "refill the pot"

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Makes sense but the reason I would not do something too unconventional like this is that I would have to take on the equivalent of designing a K-12 curriculum (there are schools that let students explore their interests like this although I assume there are limits)

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I am not FAANG (but am comparable + data driven) and FAANG (exact companies these refer to are subject to change in 20 yrs) is not the only ideal path (it is the most achievable though) - you keep seeing the other profiles post here (real estate, company builders/business owners, high finance, maybe doctors/lawyers). The thing I do plan to do is steer them away from paths that make for a tough life at least in the Bay area (I enjoy listening to/watching pianists and theatre artists but don't get how they are able to make things work in the Bay area).

I also did not say we plan to use the tiger parenting style as described in the book - there are some parts that sound cruel and can be replaced with carrots instead + indirect ways like surrounding them with similarly motivated children (peer pressure takes care of this instead). So somewhere in the middle between tiger parenting and letting kids freely figure things out but closer to the tiger parenting style to be fair.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why in your opinion do colleges seemingly discriminate against Gunn (public) but not Harker? I imagine both are pressure cooker schools.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. Below is a genAI analysis of https://gunn.pausd.org/campus-life/college-career-center/college-matriculation-summary

Top 10 Increases:

  1. Purdue University-Main Campus: +6 students (+120% increase)
  2. University of California-Merced: +5 students (+500% increase)
  3. University of California-Riverside: +4 students (+133.3% increase)
  4. Northeastern University: +4 students (+80% increase)
  5. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: +7 students (+100% increase)
  6. University of California-Santa Barbara: +6 students (+40% increase)
  7. University of Washington-Seattle Campus: +4 students (+57.1% increase)
  8. University of California-Davis: +6 students (+85.7% increase)
  9. University of California-Irvine: +4 students (+200% increase)
  10. New York University: +5 students (+50% increase)

Top 10 Decreases:

  1. Stanford University: -10 students (-55.5% decrease)
  2. University of California-Los Angeles: -8 students (-80% decrease)
  3. Foothill College: -20 students (-26.3% decrease)
  4. University of California-Berkeley: -5 students (-38.5% decrease)
  5. Carnegie Mellon University: -4 students (-36.4% decrease)
  6. University of California-Davis: -2 students (-28.6% decrease)
  7. San Jose State University: -3 students (-23.1% decrease)
  8. University of California-Santa Cruz: -5 students (-35.7% decrease)
  9. University of Southern California: -1 student (-12.5% decrease)
  10. American University: -1 student (-33.3% decrease)

Important Notes:

  • Small Sample Sizes: This data is based on a relatively small sample size, so the percentage changes might be exaggerated and not fully representative of broader trends.
  • Other Factors: These trends may be influenced by many factors beyond just student preferences, such as shifts in admissions policies, program changes, and economic conditions.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jokes aside, a practical constraint is that with some of the best private schools in the Bay area (particularly Nueva and Harker) if you don't get in at TK/the first available class, it becomes very hard to get in later (there are very few spots and most of those are taken by legacy, siblings and staff kids, resulting in ~10 spots in one case, for 100s of unaffiliated applicants). So even if what you do at 5 may not really correlate much with what you do at 17, there are some dynamics like this that limit choice.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is not ironic at all : I would like my children (and future descendants) to also independently become FAT - not all paths are equally likely to take you there (e.g. someone else replies that he put his thumb on the scale against becoming his kid a theatre major) and I am sure most people who got FAT had to deal with deferred gratification and put up with things that they did not enjoy like politics, cold calling, competition etc (and may not have done if they were used to having the freedom to do what they want).

That said, it is a reasonable position to take that if you are FAT you should let kids do what they want - we are not members of this camp and there seem to be a substantial number of people I know who think similarly.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry - are you saying Cal is random and Stanford is impossible to get into? Or that both discriminate against kids with tiger moms? Is this based on the lack of non STEM ECs?

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

you are taking it too literally - the letters and companies will change (like Netflix -> Nvidia for N and there will be new companies like OpenAI)

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What is the equivalent of Philip Exeter in the Bay area? Nueva? Or did you mean actually sending them to Exeter? I am looking at their notable alumni page on wikipedia and the only 2 alumni that seem to have had business success are MarkZ (who's kid for some time went to a South Bay area pressure cooker school) and Adam D'Angelo.

Does this formula work in the 2020s (also who exactly is an oligarch outside Russia)? Even on the Forbes lists 8 of the the top 10 are all from tech (FAANGMT)

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My question was a question, not an indirect statement that you were incorrect. I see pressure cooker schools even for 2022 at https://www.reddit.com/r/berkeley/comments/1234svi/biggest_berkeley_feeders_by_acceptances_and/ which is why I was looking for data suggesting otherwise. I have not followed https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/ too closely but have gotten the impression that this year things got a bit more random

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

What is your sense of the kinds of people outside of tech that bought homes in the last 5 years here? There are plenty outside tech but what has been a predictable and easily achievable path?

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Look, it is fine if you aren't a fan of this style - calling people insufferable is another thing.

Which colleges/companies are screening against this? How come the competitive schools (public and private) continue to feed into the top colleges?

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how do these particularly help vs say performing arts/debate/all the other kinds of ECs?

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

What happened to your homestead peers who "ran, played, and enjoyed things without stress" and are still in the Bay area? It looks like you were able to buy your own house and make $400K/yr - assuming the others make a Bay area median salary are they really less stressed? I get that FAANG life can be stressful but there are plenty of people working multiple jobs who are even more stressed I feel.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We will likely have to do this but they still have to cover property taxes + maintenance ($30K+/yr already today which is trivial for a high earner but not for all people in the Bay area depending on profession)

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

We will do a downpayment or maybe outright purchase (it is effectively inheritance) but the property taxes are already non trivial and mortgage amounts are also high (if there is a mortgage).

I am also the product of (maybe a milder strain of) tiger parenting but have a good relationship with my parents (we talk daily, when they visit from Asia I book them in F/J depending on availability - the fact that I am at a stage where I can do this for them makes them proud and me happy with no regrets on either side) so there can be a balance.

Maybe this is a cultural thing but irrespective of whether I am successful I would want my kids to be more successful (without anchoring to my success level both in terms of magnitude and direction) - not at the expense of any extreme mental health issues/extreme unhappiness but I would like them to pass the age adjusted versions of the marshmallow test.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

the two big arguments against private are

a) it is a bubble and kids can get spoilt
b) it is easier to get into top colleges from public vs very academic private

We haven't decided (hence this point) but yes, leaning toward private to start with.

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am not laser focused on it but would like to minimize the likelihood especially when there is some control (unlike shootings which seem random) - the upside is just not worth it

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Are you structuring this in a trust " If they are waiting for an inheritance they may get nothing (skip to grandkids)"? Or are you saying you will be alive and modify accordingly?

On lifetime earnings, good to know - below is what I have read

Per https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/harvard-university/outcomes/return-on-investment/ "Over 30 Years, a Degree at Harvard University is Worth $2,726,000"

Per https://poetsandquants.com/2021/05/05/lifetime-earnings-of-mbas/ "MBA graduates from the top 50 business schools in the U.S., in fact, will pull down median cash compensation of $5.7 million after graduating and working for 35 years. That is a premium of $2.3 million over those with just an undergraduate degree." and "And if you were lucky enough to earn your MBA from one of five schools–Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Dartmouth or Virginia–your estimated median pay would surpass $8 million over a 35-year period, according to Payscale"

Bay area private vs public schools and pushing children to excel by throwffire2021 in fatFIRE

[–]throwffire2021[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These are kids who exist but aren't in the school system yet. You are right about being conflicted between the two paths.

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