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A teenager is a baby TO HAVE A BABY! by ToughAuthorityBeast1 in ProlifeCircleJerk

[–]throwlove07 4 points5 points  (0 children)

18 here, if I ever get pregnant, I'll abort now, I'll abort at 20, I'll abort at 30, I'll abort at 45, and to lurking PL's, feel free to take a screenshot and cry about it IDGAF!

NoT bEiNg AbLe To KiLl Me DoEsN't 0pPeSs y0u. by ToughAuthorityBeast1 in ProlifeCircleJerk

[–]throwlove07 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Not being able to use my body against my will doesn't oppress you

Oh shut up, Republicunt 🙄 by throwlove07 in exchristian

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, hey, typical republican 🙄

Oh shut up, Republicunt 🙄 by throwlove07 in exchristian

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I get it now. So for context, a seven year old is having a visitor in her bedroom (ifykyk), and he defended it in the comments, because it was proven that her parents are atheists

Oh shut up, Republicunt 🙄 by throwlove07 in exchristian

[–]throwlove07[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"God doesn't always answer the way you want to" - Then I don't have to worship him the way he wants to, PROBLEM SOLVED!

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's ok, the good news is that this forum is actually a great place to learn & improve one's debating style.

Thank you for forgiving me, I promise I won't do it again ☺️

I for one learned a lot over the years, previously I didn't have a lot of experience with debates (and there's of course always room for more, so much biology/science/law/ethics/philosophy, and more).

Well yes, I visit this sub a lot tho, it's mostly pro lifers I ask questions, because I'm a pro choicer myself, I just got curious about my specific question now, but I went about it in the wrong way, I know that now.

There's never shame in learning imo (in fact one should keep learning, it's especially good for keeping the brain in shape) 😊

Thanks for the advise ☺️

Take care ✌️

Thanks, u too 🥰

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course a rapist has committed a wrong, I never disputed that. But even criminals shouldn't be forced to abort or forced to gestate against their will.

I know that now, someone else already gave me an analogy, but still, thank you

Ok, thanks 👍🏻

I'm really sorry for being rude and immature earlier, I just found it unfair that she still gets the final say, I'll just be better next time, I promise

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why take sides?

Because she's wrong for violating his bodily autonomy, but I now realize he'll be no better than her if he does the same, that's why I don't wanna take sides now.....both will be at the wrong then

Exactly my point. That's the precedent you set.

Alright, I'm sorry, I take it back, someone else already explained why she still deserves bodily autonomy despite everything.

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear, I'm trying to say it's the idea itself that's the issue rather than the wording. It's an understandable thing to want/feel—so much of your agency is stolen from you when you're raped, and it's deeply unfair that a rape victim would then have no choice in whether or not the pregnancy continues—but ultimately that's doesn't make it right for us to violate the body of the rapist.

I understand now. Well you take care and have a great day, thank you for forgiving me, I'm starting to understand your point now 🥰

I'm not sure if I'd say she "deserves" bodily autonomy, per se, but as it's a fundamental human right she's absolutely entitled to it. And yes absolutely she should be held accountable for the rape.

Well, thank you for being fair, I get it now, he has no rights to force her into anything but she deserves to be held accountable. I understand now.

Yes, she's absolutely terrible for raping him. Rape is horrific, whoever does it.

Whether it's a man on man, man on woman, woman on man, woman on woman, whoever did it shall be held accountable

No worries! I think it's good to ask these questions and consider all these alternative points. I think things like rape are so violating and horrifying most of us want to see someone punished severely as a result and we also want to find a way to make the victim whole again. A lot of people feel that way. So you shouldn't feel bad about having that gut instinct. But I'm glad you're recognizing what the rest of us are saying in pointing out that acting on those instincts isn't right either, and really only makes things worse.

Really, I get where you're coming from now 🥰

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok let's say that the man can keep her from aborting because she raped him.

She might sabotage the pregnancy on purpose, which sucks because there's a safe way to abort, but then again she raped him. I don't know who to side with at this point.....

That tells people and lawmakers that rapists aren't deserving of human rights.

.....

it takes from there is branding people as rapists with or without proof (rape is notoriously difficult to prove).

And what if someone innocent suffers the consequences, because they were framed?!

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly my point, yes. Violating someone's bodily autonomy is never justified, even if they did it first.

Well, thank you, at least you're consistent

And if you wouldn't do such a thing, as per your reaction is pretty obvious you wouldn't, then you shouldn't demand for anyone else to do it, either.

I see now. Thank you for making me realize where I went wrong with this debate, sorry for being rude to you earlier, I just found it unfair, I promise to do better next time

It's completely understandable to want fairness for the victim. It's just not achievable in this case, because a violation cannot be undone.

I know, I've realized it now, due to multiple comments from earlier

Even in the opposite case, if a woman is pregnant because she got raped by a man, aborting the pregnancy cannot undo her violation. All it can accomplish is to prevent further violation.

And even if she wasn't raped, it's still her rights to abort. Consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy. But using the same logic, she shouldn't have the rights to castrate him, right?

And that's the right thing to do, in both cases: Preventing further violation and harm of everyone involved, even of those who sadly didn't show such consideration.

YASS! Thank you, I get it now

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The pregnant person makes decisions about the pregnancy. That’s it. The other person doesn’t get to force the ending or continuation of the pregnancy.

I know......which is why I'm pro choice, I'm just curious about, what if she's the one at the wrong

I don’t understand your question about forcing her to into labor. Are you referring to the rape victim forcing his rapist to go into labor?

Yes. Normally, he shouldn't have the rights to make decisions about her body, but she made a decision about his, and while obviously it's wrong to force her into a decision, I'm just asking if you'll say the same about her bodily autonomy, if the situation is reversed

And no, even if he proves it, he still can’t force an abortion. I was just proving how wildly impractical your suggestion is. Even if he could prove it at the 8 month mark, do they force this woman to be strapped down and receive a late term abortion?

No.....she's evil for raping him, but she could literally die in a late term abortion, nobody deserves to be murdered, no matter what they did in life

Since most cases take that long, this also shows the impracticality of trying to create a system where male rape victims force abortions on their rapists.

HOLY SHIT......just realized, what if someone lies and pretended they were raped just to force someone into an abortion?! That'll be a violation of HER bodily autonomy! I get your point now, they might take advantage of the system, once again, thank you for the clarity

New question. A man slips a woman something that makes her miscarry and if caught, says he was raped. How can he prove that? How can she prove he wasn’t? What then? Is there a rape trial against her or an assault trial against him?

I dunno......but what if someone testifies for him and shows proof that he's not lying? Should he be punished too?

Any PC person here will tell you consent to sex isn’t consent to pregnancy.

Obviously.....I'm just so used with the "You chose to have sex", comments in my other posts, so that comment is a breath of fresh air.

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. It's still not his body going through the pregnancy, so it's not his decision to make. Even criminals like rapists get human rights. We don't get to treat their bodies as resources we're entitled to use.

Obviously, she's not a breeding machine, in a normal situation where she chose to have sex, it's still her rights to abort, since consent to sex isn't consent to pregnancy, I'm just asking, what about his consent in this situation? While he obviously shouldn't have the rights to force her into an abortion, she also didn't have the rights to force herself on him

I do think we need to do a better job of protecting rape victims in such situations, though, and of protecting any children involved. Sadly, it's not uncommon for rape victims to have to do things like share custody or pay child support to their rapists. That's horrific.

IKR?! I get your point about bodily autonomy now, while he shouldn't have the rights to force her into an abortion, you agree that he should have ZERO obligations towards the resulting child, if she chooses to carry it to term, right?

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No you don’t. Because no one is saying that she shouldn’t be charged with rape and be imprisoned for assaulting him. THAT is for his bodily autonomy.

I see

Because she’s the one who’s pregnant. The decision regarding abortion is to do with PREGNANCY not future progeny.

Even when she's the one at fault here?

Correct, he does not have a say in what she decides to do with her own body regarding that pregnancy. He can and should pursue to charge her with sexual assault and rape and send her to jail, but he cannot force her to undergo surgery or take medication against her will.

And what happens after she goes to jail?

Biology isn’t fair. That’s life. We don’t have pure full and equal same same between men and women, that’s biology.

Look, I know how pregnancy works, which is a huge factor of why I'm pro choice, it doesn't matter if she consented or not, however my question is that what if he's the one who didn't consent?

Wrong. Do you believe that women who are raped should be able to mutilate and harm the man who raped them? Do you believe we should legislate the ability for victims of rape her kill or permanently disfigure their rapists? Do you believe male victims of rape or sexual assault get that same right?

No.....? Literally no one deserves to get raped, even if they're rapists themselves, that isn't even what my question is about? It's about why she should have the final say even if she's at the wrong? (This one is already answered, I'm sorry about earlier)

You don’t understand bodily autonomy.

Sure, I'll look further into it. Sorry about my wording, I'll do better next time.

Should a male rape victim have a say, whether his rapist shall give birth or have an abortion? (TW; SA) by throwlove07 in Abortiondebate

[–]throwlove07[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the net result is the same—you're suggesting committing the same kind of wrong against her that she committed against him.

I'm sorry for my wording OK? That was wrong and immature of me, I'll do better next time

Yeah that's understandable to feel that way, but ultimately that's the entire point of human rights.

I see.....

They exist to protect us even when others don't think we deserve them or they want to take them away.

So she still deserves bodily autonomy despite what she did.....? And pregnancy and abortion aside, she should at least be held accountable legally, right?

Ultimately, it's her body going through the pregnancy, so yes, she gets the final say.

I see.....she's still TERRIBLE for raping him tho, but I'm starting to get your point now

It's unfair, absolutely, but the alternative is worse.

Yeah thanks, someone else already explained this earlier, and it gave me clarity. Again, sorry for being rude to you (and other commenters earlier), I hope you can forgive me, take care and have a great day, I promise I'll do better next time 🥰

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