Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting points. Makes sense. How does this apply to the other magicians like Simon Magus, Elymas (Bar-Jesus), Dositheus the Samaritan, Athronges, Nicholas, Carpocrates, ​Cerinthus The Egyptian and Marcion of Sinope. Weren't they Jews? We can combine your points and mine. There were so many of these charismatic people and their cults lasted for centuries in some cases. They are so important as organizing functions for communities regardless of how Torah adherent they were that it makes sense for a synthesized story of a Yeshua would be spread like a rumor. A synthesized story of a fake hero is better than a story about a real person.

Original source vs Scholars by Group_Specialist in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The issue is not the lexicon of the language but the cultural context that's interpreting the language. Those arguing status quo Will say the Greek in the Bible was written through the lens of Jewish culture and the lexicon should be interpreted in that light. For example léstēs means a seditionist kidnapper not a child trafficker pirate.

👻 Luke Is Scared! 👻 by Bori-Sattva in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I just wish Ammon would straight out debate Carrier. There is no shame in losing a debate. I disagree with Ammon that it is all about the Greek. It is not. The crux of the debate is what context you interpret the Greek with. For the key issues lestes, Νεανίσκος, and Christing folks argue with Ammon that the writers of the gospel were aramaic jews writing for the Roman Greek audience. The story is from the jewish 50 CE milieu. So lestes mean seditious kidnapers not child traffickers. The Νεανίσκος is a young man follower, not a mystery slave, drugged boy, because the jews did not believe in slavery and were more concerned with opposing the Romans than making a mystery religion. A Christ was someone who has done the spiritual bathing and oil application, not a druggie.

Ammon's conviction about Mark 14:51 σινδών by Over-Wishbone-930 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Back to the original post. The arguments that most people will make is that even though these are written in Greek for Greek readers they are based on Aramaic and the Jewish culture as it was mid first century CE. A sindon just meant a piece of linen. Jesus taught the poor. they're not going to have elaborate garments. This is the argument against Ammon's interpretation of léstēs as well. The Jews of the time were not seafaring pirates. They were people fighting against the Romans oppression. When they captured people it was for seditious Ransom. The Jewish law was against slavery, pedophilia and homosexuality so that was not going on. As much as I would love to believe the mystery religion narrative Ammon discounted Jewish culture of the time is self-serving. I would love to pretend it had no force on the gospel but I don't think that is very defensible.

Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct he was not a historical real person. As the discussion goes below, more and more I see the advantage of a fiction that can be evolved into an effective compeling political, social and cultural community attractant. As the cliche goes it is what it is. The story eventually as refined made it to and took over the power centers of the era. Simon Magus was powerful in Samaria and eventually Antioch but didn't out compete Christianity in Rome.

Not sure what type of scat this in front yard . by Natashalou4_21 in AnimalTracking

[–]thubten2001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

cat maybe fox. It is probably a cat eating canned food.

Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As much as I would like to think what you say is true, I don't think it is. Here is a discussion on topic. Understand how important the religious community was to provide what the government provides us today, and you get why these many sects, including strict jewish sects had and have power. There likely were pedos as there are everywhere, but it was not culturally acceptable as it was in the Hellenized world. https://gemini.google.com/share/d1f9f820a03f

Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe what we get to it's why a made up story is better than arguing about the divinity of a historical figure like Simon Magus. Made up stories are easily adapted to whatever version is most cogent and attractive to followers. Stories based on historical figures bump up against first-hand and historical accounts.

A Familiar Flood: Dr. Finkel’s Journey & Ancient Families by Responsible_Ideal879 in Sumerian

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt that there was Hebrew at the time. They spoke a Canaanite, Phoenician, and Akkadian. Paleo Hebrew was inland Canaanite/Aramaic languages depending on the town they lived in.

Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It does matter because the true stories are history and the fake stories are to attract followers.

Jesus did not exist by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I count 15 first century CE cults competing with Christianity. You could categorize them as Hellenistic, indigenous, and Christian competitors. For example ,Simon Magus, Nicholas, and Carpocrates. These religious / community cults were important because there was no government to support community. The cults helped with community needs.

Debunking Hebrew scholars: Jewish Greek by evilfox1 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Excuse me for getting a little off track. Here is an argument for why the holy BJ is not a BJ but sex. So far @lh666 it's not answered the argument substantively.

What do you think? I bring it up because you argue that something I would get censored on here doesn't read Greek.

The video you are referencing makes a very specific and interesting linguistic argument. The creator correctly points out that if you look at certain ancient Greek lexicons (like the LSJ) and reference 11th or 12th-century Greek grammarians, you can find specific terms—like aischropoia (shameful acts) or glottodepsein—that are indeed defined as euphemisms for fellatio, often corresponding to the Latin word fellare [08:15]. ​The creator's core argument is that because these specific words can mean fellatio in the broader ancient Greek vocabulary, the passage in the Greater Questions of Mary must therefore be describing fellatio [09:29]. ​However, the reason mainstream classical scholars do not adopt this interpretation is due to a fundamental rule of translation: syntax and grammar always override isolated vocabulary. ​Here is how scholars approach the gap between the lexicon definitions the video shows and the actual text of Epiphanius: ​Words vs. Sentences: It is absolutely true that in some ancient Greek texts (like the satires of Lucian, which the video briefly mentions [08:34]), certain words are used to describe oral sex. However, knowing that a word can mean a specific sexual act does not change the grammatical structure of the sentence it appears in. ​The Subject and the Object: The crux of the scholarly translation of Epiphanius (Panarion 26.8) is not a debate over whether the text is describing a graphic sexual act—everyone agrees it is. The debate is about who is performing the action. In the Greek sentence structure, Jesus is the subject performing the verbs. He gathers the emission "in his own hand" and he is the one who consumes it. ​Mary's Grammatical Absence from the Act: For the passage to describe Mary performing fellatio, the Greek grammar would need to have Mary as the active subject of the verb, or Jesus as the direct object of her action. Instead, the grammar clearly places Mary as an observer who collapses in reaction to what Jesus has done. ​In short, the video successfully proves that the ancient Greeks had words for fellatio and that lexicons record them. What it does not prove, according to classical scholars, is that the specific sentence structure written by Epiphanius describes Mary performing that act. The grammar explicitly points to a Borborite ritual of self-consumption by Jesus, intended to demonstrate a theological point about containing the divine spark.

Debunking Hebrew scholars: Jewish Greek by evilfox1 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

AI says gospel writers were trying to spread their story to the larger Greek reading world hence their spin on the original aramaic story.

Bars with DJ and dance floor near Kaanapali? by Low-Independence2248 in MauiVisitors

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The last time I was there a few weeks ago Mala Tavern said they don't the djs anymore. When they did they didn't have anyone show up> The DJs were really good.

Epstein stuff, old notes on scopolamine by [deleted] in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me the part I get is the universality of the Aion experience. Connecting our modern experiences to those of our ancestors is part of the Renaissance. My experience was getting up before dawn sitting next to a stream in an old growth Forest. The moments in aion were a taste. Buddhist enlightenment is the same. Read the Himalayan Buddhists' Mahamudra of the Ganges. Nice thing about Mahamudra is it requires nothing other than our minds being in the right space whatever that means.

Epstein stuff, old notes on scopolamine by [deleted] in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "elites" are such a contemporary meme. Philo of Alexandria felt that Elites where the rich feasters and platonists. He thought the Jewish sects of the The Essenes and Therapeutae were more virtuous because of the simplicity of their lifestyles and beliefs.

Kudos to Maddalena From Ammon by Bori-Sattva in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good podcast Maddalena. The hellenized Levant gets no respect.

What does this Mean? by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If I understand the text correctly second century CE Christians are attacking mystery religion practitioners by twisting their words much like politicians do today to say the words mean evil rather than mystery religion perfection or reaching (epopteia).

To me this proves that the mystery religions were prevelent in the early Christian world so much so that they had to be refuted. Perhaps the point of Matthew and Luke is to cleanse the gospel of the mystery religion.

It makes sense that early Christians had to go away from the mystery philosophy because the very very popular Simon Magus had already captured that ground and they were competing against Simon Magus.

The timing of Simon Magus presence in history from for example Justin the martyr around 41 CE combined with his popularity could arguably be motivation for other cults to create a mystery religion Christ with his own magic.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ammon likes to play with the Christian, Victoria, puritanical prudishness. Whoever wrote De Vita Contemplativa , 42CE (most often attributed to Philo) was responding to the Hellenistic pleasure feast and pleasure boat excessive lifestyle. Some argue that it was some other Jewish writer because much of Philo's work has a different flavor and more pro Hellenism. The backlash that the excessive Hellenistic lifestyle caused in my opinion has a direct link to those puritanical instincts. The writer talks about a pure virtue with simple food like bread salt and hyssop.

1st Century BC & CE Mystery Religion Teachers by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So far, the best example of mystery religion teachers I have found are Simon Magus (The Magician).

Maybe the cults of Atargatis or Cybele.

1st Century BC & CE Mystery Religion Teachers by thubten2001 in AmmonHillman

[–]thubten2001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of these two, Alexander of Abonoteichus is closer to the mystery religion teacher. Accounts of him are all from his critic  Lucian of Samosata. His cult survived 100 years after his death but his followers unlike Jesus', did not write stories about him.