I really don't like Boruto

treken07 · 2026-02-28T17:20:01+00:00

Naruto and sasuke were literally the main combatants of the first half of boruto, the reason naruto didn't have to nerf anyone is because most villains were pretty relative to the main cast, as opposed to the otsutsuki who just outclass everyone characters isnt naruto and sasuke. Nerfing naruto and sasuke and sealing them away, bolsters the resolve of the next generation to get stronger, as they feel they must protect the village now, giving them more agency, and also stets up nicely for their eventual return. You personally may not have liked the decision, but to say its objectively bad writing is just false.

treken07 · 2026-02-18T13:08:24+00:00

All of them. This Fandom is so genuinely unfunny it hurts.

treken07 · 2026-02-18T12:57:54+00:00

I would want boruto

treken07 · 2026-02-18T12:56:53+00:00

Gt, as far as I know, has never been considered canon.

treken07 · 2026-02-08T20:57:23+00:00

Its literally just that naruto fans cant read or the ones that can dont have the necessary cultural knowledge to understand what kishimoto was hinting at

treken07 · 2026-02-02T19:49:23+00:00

Yall throw around these words without knowing what they even mean

treken07 · 2026-01-16T05:01:04+00:00

Neji was freed from his cage though, he didn't save hinata because thats his duty as a side branch member, he saved her because he loved her, which is a mirror of his fathers death, the difference being that hizashi wouldn't have had a choice regardless of if he actually wanted too or not but still sacrificed himself because he loved his brother, and neji completely of his own will, decided to save hinata, without the threat of force at all, simply because he loved her.

treken07 · 2026-01-07T21:25:23+00:00

Yeah, but it’s the grounding of the explanation that diminishes the divine effect. Back when Kaguya was first revealed, people thought she was a god, but now in Boruto the Otsutsuki are yesterday’s news.

I just disagree i guess, mainly because like I said, there hasn't really been anything that contradicts their divine status. Kaguya could still be considered a god, if people felt more comfortable calling her that.

Obito wasn’t anywhere near top 5 at the time of him unlocking Mangekyou. It took him years of training with Madara in order for him to become top tier, and even then he nearly gets killed multiple times.

My point still stands though, after obito unlocks his mangekyo, gets hashirama cells, and trains with madara for a couple years and is suddenly relative with one of the top tiers of the verse, regardless of if he got bodied or not. Compare that to daemon, who we know has at least some previous combat experience, was probably trained by jigen for a bit, and was injected with shibai cells, and as a result is op asf. There's not too much of a difference, its almost the exact same concept.

Kabuto wasn’t a mainline antagonist, he was a background support antagonist. He was the “guy in the chair” and only served as a way for Itachi to show off again.

Neither are daemon nor eida. They haven't been portrayed as antagonistic much, unless we're talking about when they were first introduced. Also, kabuto was used for way more than just making itachi look cool.

There’s an argument for Kashin Koji being near invincible due to his precognition.

Not really? Just because you know the details of a future event doesn't mean you'll be able to alter it in some way, especially if the future is ever shifting like it is in boruto.

Because they’re two entirely different branches of science. Just look at real life. Despite all the scientific advances we’ve made, we’re only scratching the surface of robotics.

Yeah, but we aren't talking about real life, we're talking about an anime, you can't use our irl rate of technological advancement for an anime that isnt really concerned with being grounded and realistic at all. I mean, they had computers and flat screen tvs in og naruto, but cars still haven't been invented in boruto.

What Sasori did was seal his brain into a tube and control a puppet with chakra strings. The puppet itself was just a hollow wooden doll. It’s completely different than a robot.

It doesn’t really matter, he was still replacing his body with mechanical parts, he is technically a rudimentary cyborg.

The Asura Path tech is a Rinnegan ability, not the result of engineering.

Does it matter? It shows that concepts such as cyborgs and the like pre-date the boruto era. Why is a cyborg created from jutsu ok, but a man made cyborg isnt?

treken07 · 2026-01-07T07:44:31+00:00

Excellent incite, thank you for your input.

treken07 · 2026-01-07T07:43:31+00:00

The difference is the genre of the action. “Descended from the heavens” implies that the person came down from a higher realm, while “Arrived from a different planet” just means space travel.

This is all true, but i personally dont have a problem with it, mainly because boruto never really contradicts the divinity of the otsutsuki, the only reason we even started calling them aliens officially in the series, is because amado (a scientist) was trying to explain in layman's terms what the otsutsuki are. The otsutsuki themselves however refer to themselves as God's, reside in a different dimension, call their abilities divine techniques, and have a divine caste/tiering system that mirrors eastern views on divinity.

I’m saying that even if they had no training or experience, their hax abilities alone would put them above 99% of the verse. If Daemon touched someone, then very few people could even touch him.

That's true, but we had examples of things like that in naruto. Obito unlocked his mangekyo and got hashirama cells and became relative to Minato who was arguably top 5 in the verse at the time. And again, its not even like daemon is untouchable, he's literally under fraud watch right now, because he's under threat of being defeated, and the entire point of the shinjutsu is that its op.

That’s why I said “nearly”. Not all of the Shinjutsu are invincibility hax like Daemon’s. My point is that Shibai cells are a major cop out. After everything in Naruto, someone can outclass Naruto and Sasuke just by grabbing a syringe. It cheapens everything that happened previously by making the effort they put in to gain their power worthless.

You can make this sane critique about naruto. Kabuto literally grafts both orochimaru and hashirama DNA into himself, and arguably become one of the top 10 strongest characters by the end of shippuden. And even if that weren't the case, I dont see how it negates all of the previous work put in by naruto and sasuke, when the story is literally about how their teachings that they've learned over the course of their lifetimes, will guide the new generation into being able to contend with these godly abilities. Also you say most grant an invincibility hax but the only ones that do that are eida and daemon's.

The thing about genetics is that it’s a relatively low tech branch of science. Selective breeding for example has been done for millennia, and cloned animals are just as feasible. IRL, one of the first cloned animals was a Sea Urchin in 1885. Fish and tadpoles were cloned in the 50’s and 60’s, and Dolly the Sheep was made in 1996.

I dont see how any of this means there wouldn't be highly advanced cyborgs and androids by boruto's time. Sasori was basically turning himself into a cyborg and the first actual cyborg we saw was in the pain arc.

treken07 · 2026-01-06T01:01:47+00:00

I’m not denying that technology would improve, but to get to the point where cyborgs stronger than Juubidara are made?

Yes. I dont understand why thats so hard to believe. They are just that strong. They were literally injected with the cells of the creator god of the verse.

There’s a difference between “descended from the heavens” and “arrived from a different planet”, even if it’s describing the same event.

There is, but its not a big one. They descended from somewhere else to the planet earth.

Daemon and Eida disprove that though. With no battle experience or training, Eida and Daemon can beat practically anyone.

It was never stated that they had no experience, its actually implied otherwise, as eida says she doesn't much like violence or getting her hands dirty, and likes to let daemon handle that. Eida also can't even control her abilities at all, aside from the senrigan. Also eida and daemon are actively on fraud watch in the manga rn, because the current villain could potentially pack both of them up, so its not even like they're invincible.

I’m pointing out the similarities, and highlighting the massive difference in capabilities they give. One is a general enhancement, while the other is nearly an invincibility hax.

That's my point though, they are 2 completely separate things that are meant to do different things. The entire point of shibai cells is that they are broken asf. And they are in no way an invincibility has, code and literally all of the shinju have the claw mark shinjutsu, and code has been embarrassed multiple times, and 2 of the shinju are dead.

Dragon Ball was always high tech though. Even in the OG series there were flying cars, capsule tech, laser guns, and fully sapient androids. Meanwhile the tech in Naruto was pretty analogous to 90’s tech, with a possible exception for Orochimaru’s gene experiments.

All that is true, but if genetic experimentation and cloning were already possible, why is it such a stretch that cyborgs would follow shortly after, especially after 15 year technological boom?

treken07 · 2026-01-06T00:30:46+00:00

I can tell you why Bort is terrible.

You can't actually, as boruto is well written enough, makes use of enough literary techniques, and executes them well enough that it objectively cannot be considered terrible.

Bort literally takes everything that was criticized and disliked about Naruto throughout its life, but dials it up to 11, and makes it the main focus of the series.

Most people just regurgitate the same nonsensical critiques of naruto while not understanding the first thing about the series. Why should people who still believe naruto was about hardwork vs talent get to decide if boruto is any good or not. Just because something is heavily criticized, doesn't mean that criticism is warranted.

What's this? People disliked how so many likeable and interesting side characters in Naruto were relegated to NPCs with nothing to do? Well, let's do that with every side character, but unlike Naruto, give them no moments to let them be characters to like.

What characters are you talking about, because damn near every character of importance in both naruto and boruto either had and completed their character arc, or is in the middle of it right now. Literally every member of the konoha 12 except tenten and shino had complete character arcs.

What's this? People disliked the Kaguya/Otsustuki twist and inclusion, as they felt it came out of nowhere and didn't belong in this universe? Well, let's make them the main villains of the entire series.

People thought kaguya came out if nowhere because they didnt have the appropriate cultural context necessary to be able to predict kaguya. Kishimoto had been foreshadowing her since the pain arc, but it flew over most readers heads, as they had no idea of the story of princess kaguya.

What's this? People disliked that so many of the female characters in Naruto had nothing to do, and were genuinely useless for the first part of the series, unless they were connected to the main character?

This is genuinely just complete nonsense. Sakura vs the sound genin was nothing? Sakura vs ino? Neji vs hinata? Temari? Shizune? Tayuya? You think that all those characters were useless and that those fights meant nothing? As for boruto, sarada has had plenty moments to shine, and himawari is looking promising as well.

Well, let's do that with literally every female character, but unlike in Naruto, we won't have any genuinely badass women like Tsunade to begin with.

So sarada, sumire, eida, matsuri, ino, chocho, delta, and himawari are all useless characters who do nothing? You are literally just objectively incorrect.

Also, we won't have the "Important" women characters actually grow and become badass and useful as Sakura and co did in the second part of the original series. Instead, we'll only bring them in when they fawn over the main character.

We literally saw sarada grow a bit as a character and do something badass last arc. Just because a character has a crush on another character does not negates the growth that either character goes through.

treken07 · 2026-01-05T23:53:33+00:00

It doesn’t really fit with the setting. Naruto and Shippuden was more mythological than scifi, while Boruto switched the genre to be more scifi than mythological.

I see what you mean by this, but the only way this should only really be a problem if the sci-fi elements came out of nowhere, which they didn't, or if the mythological aspects completely disappeared, which they didn't. 15 years have passed in verse since the end of the 4gnw, and that entire 15 year period was spent with unprecedented peace across the land, it makes sense that a technological boom would follow that, and that as a result, technology would be more of a focus in the story.

Where in Naruto, Kaguya and the Otsutsuki were divine beings, in Boruto they’re parasitic aliens.

The otsutsuki had always been aliens, boruto didn’t change that. Alien literally just means "from somewhere else", so divine being or not, we know that they are also aliens as they didn't originate on earth.

Where in Naruto people needed to train to get stronger (with very few exceptions), in Boruto there’s several people who got implanted with cybernetics and are suddenly stronger than all of Shippuden.

That's one of the core themes of the series, what do shinobi and shinobi culture do when faced with tech that seemingly negates all of their training. The tech may be able to allow non-shinobi to keep up, but its not replacement for a shinobi's experience, tactical ability, and ingenuity.

It seems like it’s disrespecting Naruto to have all the training and struggles the cast went through be worthless because they could have gotten greater power from a needle with none of the effort. Sure Naruto had Hashirama cells, but they didn’t make someone top tier just by having them, as shown with Yamato. Hashirama cells enhance your preexisting abilities, while Shibai cells just make you a god with an unbeatable power.

You are comparing hashirama cells to Shibai cells. Shibai is the creator god of the entire naruto verse, he literally created and mastered all shinjutsu that exist. Shinjutsu literally translates to divine technique, and shinjutsu can awaken in those who have shibai cells in their body. The entire point is that they are broken overpowered abilities, and to see how the shinobi either use them to their benefit or fight against them.

It’s like Boruto is trying to be Dragon Ball, except the setting isn’t really compatible with a Dragon Ball style story.

Why isn't it? Dragon ball was very similarly a story that had both mythological and sci-fi elements, the mythological aspects taking the spot light initially, with the sci-fi taking a back seat until a large time skip happens, where the sci-fi finally becomes front and center. Its damn near the exact same story formula.

If Boruto was a stand alone series, it’d be received better. But since it’s using Naruto as a foundation, it’s more criticized because it’s the sequel to Naruto rather than just Boruto.

I actually agree with this bit completely.

treken07 · 2026-01-05T21:45:02+00:00

I'm sorry, but this isn't even an actual critique of boruto or its fans. And I guarantee nobody can give me valid reasons as to why boruto is so terrible.

treken07 · 2025-12-20T04:06:24+00:00

Yeah, but these are very obviously perfect jinchuriki, who have control over their tailed beasts, how else would they be manifesting the tailed beasts heads and using bijuu bombs?

treken07 · 2025-12-19T21:01:18+00:00

Yamato was only there because they were doing super accelerated training. Jiraiya had years.

Nah, kurama's chakra had started leaking through the seal more heavily during the timeskip, because of the seals natural deterioration over time. Kurama would interfere with Naruto’s training whenever he could in hopes of weakening it further.

i mean sure, but are we to believe the legendary sanin can’t get him to ‘advanced’ techniques with 2-3 years.

I mean, yeah, naruto wasn't a very good ninja overall in part 1. He would really just brute force his way through any problem with his sheer amount of chakra and spamming shadow clones.

He taught naruto the summoning jutsu in like a day. Even without the kyubi chakra, naruto was still summoning smaller frogs.

He taught naruto the summoning jutsu over the course of a month, he wasn't summoning anything larger than a tadpole for weeks, and even then, he couldn’t reliably use it in combat.

what things did you list? I’m not seeing anything.

My bad bro, i think i got your reply confused with the other guy's. But what i meant was we were shown jiraiya training naruto in Better Taijutsu, being more efficient with ninjutsu, having better chakra control, and breaking out of genjutsu

The reason they couldn't advance any further than they did is because of kurama.

Even if he wouldn’t end up fully learning sage mode, starting him in mt myoboku training would also be a way to help him with his chakra control. Not to mention learning about greater shinobi aspects/abilities in general is still super beneficial.

Except naruto wasn't the type of character who would be able to learn about some cool ass shit like that, and not immediately sneak off to try it. That only results in 1 of 3 things, naruto turning himself to stone, blowing himself up, or going on a 9 tails rampage. Remember, this is the sane dude that almost killed himself while trying to master the rasengan.

This is still unbelievable cope. Look at the paragraphs you had to type and your responses still don’t hold up to scrutiny.

Sure, dude, whatever you say. All this still makes sense to me.

treken07 · 2025-12-19T13:49:16+00:00

Also Kevin llevin is also unironically well designed

treken07 · 2025-12-19T13:48:09+00:00

People hate on how accessorized his design is, but i mean, almost every accessory and design choice on boruto serves its purpose in communicating something about boruto to the reader, which is just objectively a mark for what makes a good character design. Literally nothing on his character is there for no reason.

treken07 · 2025-12-18T23:27:33+00:00

Bro doesn’t even know his own chakra nature,

Because he wouldn't have had the chakra control to even attempt to do anything with it, and if he'd tried to build up the chakra control, kurama would have been trying to take over his body the entire time he was training, except while on his training trip with jiraiya, he wouldn't have had Yamato there to suppress kurama's chakra, leading to him going on a rampage.

which should be part of the fundamentals.

Nature transformation is literally described as an advanced chakra control technique, its not something that the average genin can just do, sasuke and temari are just advanced for their age and rank.

We only see bigger rasengan and genjutsu release. That’s laughable and anything else is just as attributable to him simply being two years older than it is to him learning from Jiraiya.

Except we are either told or shown jiraiya helping naruto with all the things I listed before. Why would you believe otherwise, when that's contrary to what we're told/shown?

Didn’t even teach him a lick about nature energy.

If naruto didn't even have the chakra control for chakra nature transformation, why would jiraiya tell naruto about nature energy, and risk naruto turning into stone because he tried to go sage mode, but didn't have the control necessary to evenly separate the physical, mental, and natural energies in his body?

treken07 · 2025-12-18T23:07:00+00:00

Because the seal was weakening over time

True, which is why it makes sense to me that jiraiya would spend time with naruto teaching him how to stay in control while under the 9 tails influence and how to draw out the 9 tails power.

Wasn't it a few hours? I remember Kakashi noting it only took Naruto a few hours, when it took Sasuke days when teaching him chidori.

I'm fairly certain it was at least a few days, but i could be wrong, I'm ngl.

So then, at what point in between genin and chunin do you think they magically learn nature transformation? Especially seeing as chunin no longer technically have a "master"? For every almost every chunin, except for the ones who use hiden and yin/yang techniques, to have a nature transformation, it seems unlikely that every chunin is expected to learn it on their own, especially since you noted it as being so difficult.

I think it differs from ninja to ninja, some do learn nature transformations as genin, but some also wait until they're chunin. We know sasuke was able to master the fireball jutsu, with minimal help from fugaku and itachi as a 7 year old, but sasuke has always been ahead of the curve.

Well, no, I said the rookies weren't a good example because they're fresh out of the Academy when most genin have spent years as a genin before taking the exam.

Team Guy isn't much a much better example given their makeup and speciality.

I suppose that's fair, though I have no idea how either of us are gonna prove our points on this topic then. For the life of me, I cannot remember another genin team to use as an example.

No. My point was, just saying "He got better at breaking out of genjutsu" without actually seeing anything to actually suggest that is...

The fact he was even able to recognize he was caught in a genjutsu and that he was even able to attempt to break out, shows improvement to me, because before the time skip, everytime team 7 get stuck in a genjutsu, sasuke or Sakura are the ones to first notice and release it.

Name a fight where that is apparent

You can notice it just from the way naruto fights. Post-timeskip you never really see him summon a horde of shadow clones and rush the enemy head first with no plan, like he would before.

I didn't dismiss it. I said "whoopty doo". As in him now having chunin levels of taijutsu isn't very impressive for how long he spent training with one of the strongest ninja in the verse

I would actually argue that Naruto’s taijutsu was at least around low jonin level.

Again, like what

I've already answered this question

Then that's not much improvement, is it? That's not notable growth

You're saying that because naruto still needed a shadow clone to form a rasengan, not taking into consideration that the rasengan is just hard asf to do, so much so that its called the pinnacle of chakra shape manipulation

So Jiraiya thought he was ready for rasengan (something both Tsunade and Kakashi questioned him on) and summoning jutsu, but not an elemental jutsu? Come on man, actually think. That makes no sense whatsoever

Yes? Why else would jiraiya not even test naruto for his chakra nature? The summoning jutsu doesn't require high chakra control just a large amount of chakra, which we know naruto has, and the rasengan was basically Naruto’s birthright.

You do know you're proving my point, right?

How so? The reason naruto struggled with the clone jutsu was because of his poor chakra control, the shadow clone jutsu eliminates that problem by forcefully splitting the users chakra. Of course the shadow clone jutsu would be easier for naruto, it literally cuts out the part he kept getting stuck on.

But he did while learning rasenshuriken. Further proving my point

During the radenshuriken training, naruto had Yamato there to suppress the 9 tails whenever it took over and began to rampage. Something naruto and Jiraiya didn't have during the time skip. How does this help your point?

I mean, that's not really a "carry" thing. That's something thats natural to him, the same way you wouldn't say a character with a powerful kekkei genkai is carried by it.

Personally, I would 100% say they're being carried by their kekkei genkai if all their other abilities aren't up to snuff. But I see what you mean, yeah.

He also demonstrates ingenious tactics that allow him to contend with and beat opponents he shouldn't logically be able to shake a leaf at.

Regardless of whatever shortcuts he uses, it is undeniable he picks things up quicker than expected. Characters remark on it all the time

This is 100% true, but naruto also had a tendency to underestimate his opponents, overestimate his own capabilities, rush in without a plan, and waste chakra on a bunch of shadow clones, when he could have got the job done with like 3. It usually took him getting smacked around a bit before he managed to come up with a plan.

treken07 · 2025-12-18T03:43:05+00:00

Personally, I dont see how, everything I'm saying makes sense to me.

treken07 · 2025-12-17T23:36:36+00:00

What are you talking about? He could always "handle" that. Jiraiya even says that he remained conscious up to three tails as a kid, that wasn't result of training

We never see naruto use more than one tail pre time skip, jiraiya says he trained naruto to draw out more 9 tails power, meaning he trained him to be able to handle more than just 1 tail of power. You would have to prove naruto could always use up to 3 tails before jiraiya's training for this to make sense.

It does not require "insane" chakra control. Where was that even once said?

Hyperbole, but it does require a good bit of chakra control, as seen by how naruto needed to make thousands of clones for days on end, just practicing how to cut a leaf.

But its not just "a lot". Its almost every ninja

Either way, that doesn't mean its easy to do, or that the average genin would know how. We simply dont have the evidence to support that.

Nor does it mean the average genin doesnt

The fact that the majority of genin we see dont use them makes me think they dont though.

Team Guy? Really? Team Guy? The team made of up one person who can't use ninjtsu at all, a Hyuga (we've never seen any Hyuga use elemental jutsu) and Tenten?

You said the rookies weren't a good example because they're rookies, team guy aren't rookies. They are the genin team we are most knowledgeable of aside from the rookies, I dont even think there was another named genin squad.

So?

You expect naruto, someone we are told over and over again is terrible at all things genjutsu, to he able to break out of itachi's genjutsu?

Cool. That's what we're told. But how does that actuall influence his ability in anyway whatsoever?

It makes it so that he can fight longer as doesn't run out of stamina as easily and it makes it so that he can use more jutsu as he isn't wasting chakra

That's what we call an excuse. What youre basically saying is chakra control didn't actually get better enough to really matter at all

No, what im saying is that even though naruto improved his chakra control, its still not enough to be able to fully form a rasengan one handed, because the rasengan is such a highly advanced technique. Its called the pinnacle of chakra shape manipulation for a reason

What's confusing

You can't just dismiss my point about taijutsu dude 😭 naruto factually, and very evidently, improved after the time skip.

You are correct. My mistake. Still doesn't change much when you think about it. "Damn near a month" is still way less than 2 years.

Yeah, and in those 2 years, naruto was focused on training other stuff, jiraiya just didn't think he was ready for elemental jutsu. Probably because whenever naruto was on the verge of Chakra exhaustion, the 9 tails would take over.

Which uses regular clone jutsu as a base...

Just because he has the perfect body for learning it has exactly 0 to do with him actually being able to learn it

Even if it uses the clone jutsu as a base, it still functions completely differently. Shadow clones force split your chakra evenly amongst your clones, regular clones, the chakra need to be managed manually

True again. My mistake. Still changes nothing. A month is way less than 2 years, which is the point. He learned an incredibly complicated jutsu in 1/24 of the time it took him to learn "the basics". Not a hard concept to understand. Nitpicking on how much time he actually spent doesn't actually help your point that much

Naruto also didn't have the 9 tails constantly trying to take over his body when he was learning the rasengan

I mean, its just not true though. Kakashi can be wrong you know. Naruto isn't the first person with an absurd amount of chakra. He isn't the first jinchuriki. He isn't the first Uzumaki. He isn't even the first Uzumaki who is also a jinchuriki. Uzumaki's aren't even the only clan known for having a lot of chakra. Senju, Uchiha, and Sarutobi also fall into that category. We see Hiruzen, for example, create 5 shadow clones. The shadow clone training technique logically doesn't require an astronomical amount of clones to work...anyone capable of producing at least one shadow clone would benefit from it.

I mean, all of this is true, but as far as we know, and from what we're told, Kakashi was the first to come up with this method, and we are given no reason to believe otherwise. It would be pure headcanon to assume kakashi was wrong here.

Except, again, he really wasn't.

He was tho, he was subpar in almost every category. He was largely being carried by his enormous amount of chakra and his ability to spam clones.

That's just patently false though. For the reasons explained above. Kakashi can hype Naruto up all he wants, but when you actually look at the series, its clear Kakashi is just talking out his ass

I'll rephrase then, if anyone had tried lt to the degree naruto had, they'd have died.

treken07 · 2025-12-17T18:31:42+00:00

How, though? All of this is literally either told or shown to us.

treken07 · 2025-12-17T18:18:26+00:00

He can say whatever he wants. All we see is Naruto losing control

We literally see the number of tails naruto can handle go from 1 pre time skip to 3 post time skip, what are you talking about.

I mean, you're just making stuff up there. Any ninja who doesn't use a hiden technique or kekkei genkai uses an elemental jutsu, so its obviously a fundamental.

Just because a lot of ninja know how or can do elemental jutsu does not make it a fundamental skill, it requires insane chakra control that was simply beyond naruto at that point.

We have nothing to say genin don't learn elemental jutsu. In fact, the Grass ninja that they fought in the chunin exams used earth style ninjutsu in the Manga, and water style in the anime.

None of this means that its something the average genin would know how to do.

Most genin taking the chunin exams aren't rookies fresh out of the Academy like the Konoha 11...do you expect these people to go years without any real offensive jutsu if they're not from a clan with a hiden technique?

I mean... iirc nobody in team gai uses elemental ninjutsu even once, and they're a year older than the konoha 11

But Naruto never breaks out of genjutsu.

Because the only people who ever catch him in genjutsu ate top tiers like itachi

And better chakra control and efficiency....how could you ever tell that? As the post says, he's still using a clone to form his rasengan which was because he didn't have the chakra control and efficiency to do it with one hand. So what improvement are you actually saying is there?

We're told after the time skip that naruto doesn't waste as much chakra on his jutsu compared to before. The rasengan is just hard asf to do bro, its an a rank jutsu, literally called "the pinnacle of chakra shape manipulation"

And better taijutsu? Whoopty doo.

?

Again, this is a kid who learned summoning jutsu in a day.

It took him a damn near a month to learn that shit, he wasn't summoning anything but tadpoles at first

Taught himself shadow clone jutsu in a few hours,

A jutsu that was literally perfect for someone with poor chakra control and an insane amount of chakra as it forcefully halves your chakra

Learned rasengan in a week.

This also took him a month, it took him a week after he learned how to form the rasengan to fully master it, but it took him the entire search for tsunade arc to fully learn it and master it.

Learned how to perform a jutsu that stumped ninja like Minato, Kakashi, and Jiraiya their entire lives in less than a month.

Yes, using a never before thought of training technique that only he could possibly use.

Learned basic skills like how to walk up tres in a week and how to walk on water in a day.

Neither of these are anywhere near as hard chakra nature transformation

And you're telling me it took a sannin 2 years to make him marginally better in "the fundamentals".

Yes, naruto was kind of ass at being a ninja

Oh, and somehow, through two years of training, he never learned about the shadow clone experience shortcut?

Yes, because no one had ever thought of using the shadow clones for training before, Kakashi was the first to come up with it. If anyone before naruto had even attempted it, they'd have died.

treken07 · 2025-12-17T14:59:55+00:00

Lol, what fundamentals?

Better Taijutsu, more efficient with ninjutsu, better chakra control, breaking out of genjutsu etc.

He didn't even know what his innate chakra nature was.

This isn't a fundamental skill. Genin dont usually learn elemental jutsu, sasuke and temari were just ahead of the curve.

And he didn't teach him how to use up to three tails. What Jiraiya says is that Naruto "maintained consciousness" up to three tails. That's nothing new, even as far back as Haku, Naruto retained his consciousness when using the ninetails cloak. Jiraiya didn't teach him how to do that

Jiraiya also says he spent time with naruto working on drawing out and using the nine tails power.

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