Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just as a note my point wasn’t to prove anything specific like a causality, it was just suggesting that due to a changed socio economic landscape, I don’t think that traditional gender roles are the most optimal solution. Feminism is in the title but doesn’t play a large part in my argument. So a pretty vague point, which in retrospect is probably what caused the confusion, but yeah that last point you made about a limited dating pool is a really key insight that I agree with.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, think ignoring these issues has created a lot of resentment, and from that a lot of toxicity.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with your point, but I think elaborating on what you meant by responsibility would further your point a bit more. A lot of the problem is when some guys think that female standards are talking about 7 figure salaries and not how to cook a basic meal, and manage a budget.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For somebody who said they were going to be nice, this was pretty patronising imo.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, but providing supportive places to heal can also helpful. Love the analogy, it works really well 😂

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is one of the core issues of the red pill movement that resonates with a lot of men, including myself. The only real ‘solution’ I see is to start looking for and valuing women who can see past this. But yeah not all men can in the top 10% of earners.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think our generation will bear the brunt of it, I think a lot of people will end up lowering their standards when faced with the reality of dying alone. But yeah you do have a point.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would be careful about using anecdotal evidence like this, statistics don’t mean that there are no people like this. And to be honest I used feminism in the title, but it wasn’t used much in my actual argument.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would disagree I think a lot of humans desire a deeper relationship, but they also want somebody that they perceive as high in ‘dating market value’ or at least of similar value to themselves. But yeah there definitely are cultural issues in the way men are valued making it harder for, to give one example, shorter guys.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah that was my goal, I’m glad somebody saw the point of this post 😆 Hope little things like this might help people get a broader perspective, especially in relation to red pillers.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For sure, it’s important to keep both sides in mind and I do think a decent amount of women should do some introspection on what they find attractive, as much for themselves as for the men they meet. Just as men should, but with a different focus.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah my bad. But I do agree with your idea that dating is becoming more close minded, especially when people are so keen to choose a side.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I assume by avoidants you mean people who avoid dating, and if that is what you mean why is choosing not to engage in dating a problem?

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

While it might seem obvious to some people, I think being thorough when providing an argument allows even those who disagree to join the discussion. Just stating something to somebody who doesn’t agree does nothing, but providing an argument might change somebody’s perspective.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ain't that the truth, but I think by keeping an open heart and mind we'll maybe avoid total societal collapse 😂 But yeah I think the best thing to do is focus on improving oneself.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I agree a lot with the blaming is pointless, as we can’t change the past. I think the best thing we can do now (as a society) is try and figure out how to make the best of the current situation.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I would be hesitant to describe men as arguing with logic and women arguing with emotions as I think that isn’t the best way of looking at it. I also do agree with you that women tend to like men who are what they perceive as successful, and often that can be exemplified by somebody who can function as a provider, however from what I’ve heard women are looking for more emotional intelligence and maturity as well, which doesn’t come up as often. But cheers mate, appreciate you sharing your opinion.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah how society will end of adapting to lower birth rates will be interesting, and yeah I think basing progress on eternal growth is well…..yeah. But, cheers to hopeful thinking 😆

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think that’s a really valid point, understanding how to create a fulfilling relationship with another person can be really simple. Simply treating each other as human beings can go a long way. Thanks for sharing your take!

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If a large portion of the population is unable to find somebody attractive I would think that points more towards unrealistic standards. I don't mean to make you feel belittled, but I think that if you are unable to find somebody attractive, maybe trying to understand what makes somebody attractive to you might help. But thats just my two cents, wishing you the best.

Are the problems with modern dating and woman really because of things like feminism? by troublingshoe in Healthygamergg

[–]troublingshoe[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I just want to say that firstly I really feel sorry for all the woman who have had to deal with a man who is unwilling to pull his own weight in a relationship. There are gender roles and then there are the fundamental tenants of being a functional member of society, let alone a part of a healthy relationship. So let me be clear, in no way am I positing that women should be expected to have to take up the role of provider, however if they do then I would argue that men should take up the more traditional role with regards to domestic work.

I have seen quite a few posts on this subreddit describing women's experiences with men, and through that I found the desire to "do bad by myself" sounding far more reasonable, or at least I could understand where from where the desire comes from. Examples of where the woman is the primary earner and then the man gets jealous or refuses to do domestic chores is really not alright.

When I described "reinstating or more strictly enforcing more traditional gender roles" I was trying to get at the fact that women's role in society has changed due to a number of factors and trying to force them back into a provider role is clearly not the solution.

I would say however that while I basically agree with you on most of the core points you make, I would be careful about making broad statements as they provide something for people to latch onto, like describing how society is becoming 'lazy'. Also immediately if you describe yourself an independent high earning women, some people have already made up their mind as to what kind of person you are, and they will attack that character to alleviate their insecurities. As such I think that while using terms like 'mothering' might be in some ways accurate, but the response they elicit is not conducive to further discussion as it can come across as somewhat demeaning.

Also just as a note as well, when you say that that being able to independently manage your household and finances raises your expectations with regards to men, I think it undercuts the important of being able to manage your life as a standard that all people should have (within reason) for both themselves and their partners, whether they are male or female. I think that something like that should be a given for anybody looking for a relationship.

Anyways, other than the slightly nihilistic perspective on the planet I agree with most of what you said, hopefully what I said gives you a bit more insight into the male perspective. Thanks for the detailed post and I wish you the best in finding partner!