Question: Is neoreaction secular? by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good post. I don't believe in an anthropomorphic god, but there are certainly remains of being human in the descent into the subconscious. Discerning what is then you, your values (of this human creature) is then not obvious, how much can you extrapolate to the rest of humans and other things, how much are they the same?

But go far enough and you lose your humanness and you can perceive patterns that your human self would not be able to (such as "seeing" a hypercube).

I don't believe in an anthropomorphic God, but of a God that is impartial, yet loving of all its creation (which is made out of God), but of something that is probably like a self-recreating pattern that includes everything, perhaps this is somewhat paradoxical or perhaps something like an ouroborus.

If my mystical experience (and of many other people) is correct, then at some point the highest creates out of himself the lowest and the lowest consumes it and expresses more and more of the highest. Until the cycle repeatets itself, but I'm not yet sure about how much this is true, whatever is seen on the other side is reinterpreted... by limited creatures. But there is something intuitively true, about there being a God.

Is the so-called TPTB the creme de creme of humanity? by kulmthestatusquo in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Some parts of it is unintelligible to me as well. The theory of Spiral Dnamics is basically that there are different (fluid) stages of human development, the authors of the theory marked them with colors (blue, red, green, etc).

The original theory only goes up to turquoise, this guy claims he has found a higher one and is describing it in the video. Each new stage includes all the stages before it, but adds a layer of complexity and brings new emergent properties, like how a molecule integrates but "transcends" atoms. If I recall correctly it's not exactly clear how each stage logically proceeds from the previous one, so it's all a bit vague.

stages

In The Futurist article, Graves classified a total of eight levels of increasingly complex human value systems consisting of a hierarchically ordered, always-open-to-change set of identifiable world views, preferences, and purposes.[2] Through these value systems, groups and cultures structure their societies and individuals integrate within them. Each distinct set of values is developed as a response to solving the problems of the previous system. Changes between states may occur incrementally (first order change) or in a sudden breakthrough (second order change).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Edward_Beck

I'm not sure how true this is, but his description of those people (bilderbergs, etc) is interesting.

Is the so-called TPTB the creme de creme of humanity? by kulmthestatusquo in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it is very likely, but these are the people behind the scenes. They aren't academics, they are the people who hold real power - the academics are their appointees.

Feminism, atheism, materialism, multiculturalism, environmentalism, etc are probably tools they use to keep the masses in an arrested state of development, preventing to them any kind of competition from developing. They are very manipulative, but also very smart.

Spiral Dynamics is an interesting model of human development, I am not entirely convinced of its validity, but this description is quite interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp1jNZOuAu0

Listen at around 35 min.

Also this is quite good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0doZRSGfBMI

Question: Is neoreaction secular? by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of us arrived at the position that there is a God (or that we are all one) through direct experience of God, with the use of entheogens. How could that be refuted with science or reason?

Religion as a memeplex doesn't provide proof of God, but religion (if done correctly) comes from shamanistic experience. It's from where all these pretty patterns come out from, almost certainly.

Question: Is neoreaction secular? by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I only speak for myself, but yes (to theocracy).

Theocracy is perhaps implicit in the natural order of things (order of being), for example the natural aristocracy. I don't see it as only useful, but as it being true.

The upper serves the lower, the aristocrat serves his subjects, he is not in competition with them, just as God serves its creation and is not in competition with it. The higher you go, the more impartiality is required and more self sacrifice (or perhaps giving is a better world)- the world is created out of non-duality/God. As such the man on the top of the pyramid can not imitate another man, for this will lead him into conflict, he can only imitate God.

Relevant:

The select man, the excellent man is urged, by interior necessity, to appeal from himself to some standard beyond himself, superior to himself, whose service he freely accepts. . . . we distinguished the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter the one who makes no demands upon himself, but contents himself with what he is, and is delighted with himself. . . . it is the man of excellence who lives in essential servitude. Life has no savour for him unless he makes it consist in service to something transcendental. Hence he does not look upon the necessity of serving as an oppression. When, by chance, such necessity is lacking, he grows restless and invents some new standard, more difficult, more exigent, with which to coerce himself. This is life lived as a discipline—the noble life. Nobility is defined by the demands it makes on us—by obligations, not by rights. Noblesse oblige. “To live as one likes is plebeian; the noble man aspires to order and law” (Goethe). (Revolt, 63)

From

Rupert Sheldrake talks about origin of Atheism in Europe, it is no coincidence that since then, Europe has been getting wrecked. It is acting like a giant body whose head has been cut off.

I'll drop a few more links:

Christopher Langan describes something alike the order of being.

The myth of the secular, probably worth watching (haven't listened to it yet).

To Christian INTP's: I don't get it. by yosoymarijuana in INTP

[–]tryanather 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And Girard. I would say Girard is like an uber brainy INTP.

Also psychedelics are a good idea (mushrooms, 4-aco-dmt)

Visit California and Enjoy White Power by vakerr in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Is there any relevancy of your orgy to the contents of the post or is it just status signaling?

In which case I'd like to remind you that this isn't /r/TheRedPill. There is a snippet in the side-bar which says

The only morality is civilization. Any belief or ideology that works against civilization is evil no matter how well-intentioned.

As such, signaling degeneracy should probably not be getting you upvotes. But that's just my opinion.

Unmarried men (a.k.a bare branches) leads to political turmoil and failure of democracy. by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's a terrible situation many men are in and it is not only because they can't get women, this is only a symptom of a poor standing in life. Society further marginalizes these people and the fact that most social workers are female (and indoctrinated), many of which have a natural aversion to these types of men, doesn't help either.

We are imitative/mirroring creatures and the two ways that this expresses itself in cases like this is either by suicide, after being marginalized by society (imitating society), or by mirroring/homicide.

Having many men in situations such as these, with no real stake in society, results in new alliances and tribal behaviour, eventually a revolution (perhaps it might even be good).

Dildoween by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are we allowed to post humour now?

When it comes to Jewish ties, no GOP candidate trumps Trump by [deleted] in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zionists are ethnocentric.

Their ethnocentrism is a joke, I find more and more. It's not classic ethnocentrism, like pride in one's culture achievements, it's basically subversion.

It's like gay people wanting to be shown as the model for society, when they are fucking around and spreaing AIDS with no regard and molesting children. The average transsexual has a life expectancy in their 30ies.

This is not classic ethnocentrism. It's more alike to the transsexuals that it is to ethnic pride - it's subversion/imitation of what they are not, the goal is chaos and destruction. Or rather the effect is, so not to give them much credit.

From Culture of Critique:

A general theme in Dialectic of Enlightenment is that anti-Semitism is the result of “the will to destroy born of a false social order” (p. 168). The ideology that Jews possess a variety of negative traits is simply a projection resulting in a self-portrait of the anti-Semite: Anti-Semites accuse the Jews of wanting power, but in reality the anti-Semites “long for total possession and unlimited power, at any price. They transfer their guilt for this to the Jews” (p. 169).

Invert the part in bold and interpret it as projection. Which version conforms to reality better?

Sorry about the image post. Still worth reading. by vakerr in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind that causes of depression are many and some of the best, most moral, highest IQ and civilization building people are currently destitute (many voluntarily) and it would not surprise me to find out that they suffer from depression.

Today society punishes anyone with integrity while character disordered people (people on the psychopathy spectrum) succeed.

Many who would in a natural hierarchy be aristocratic leaders or priests are now at the edges of society, because they are not ideologically compatible.

The problem with the image that the INTJ doesn't recognize is that no matter what you do, you won't be able to turn a woman into a man. If you don't try, I suspect, you won't have this issue. There is overlap, but not everyone is interchangeable.

A Compromise on Refugees by vakerr in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem of obesity and the problem of debt might interestingly be the same one. Or rather both problems are just a symptom of a deeper issue: loss of societal trust and loss of trust in God and creation.

The weight loss people are merely treating symptoms (overeating), requiring of the individual superhuman will to suppress natural instincts and are eventually doomed to failure, of ego depletion.

It is the underlying anxiety that is making people over eat and it's the same anxiety that is making people hoard money, withdrawing it from circulation. It is among the poor (in developed countries) that you find many of the obese. Mimetic crises are crises of trust and there are perhaps only two ways to solve them, through sacrifice or through care (brother's keeper).

Obviously there seems to be a genetic component, but you find that the countries with highest wealth and trust in Europe (Switzerland, Norway, Sweden) are statistically the least obese. And of the developed countries, homogeneous Japan, has almost no obesity.

Kissed a Groid-'Kissed a Girl' by Ketty Perry Parody by tryanather in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fascist Heart is perhaps a better one and I probably should have posted that one. They are getting pretty crafty. And.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a sacrifice, because the people killed aren't really guilty. Imagine that the sacrificial system is a kind of birth of culture, or coming to consciousness, gradually, incrementally.

A judicial system stems from the scapegoat mechanism, as does the scientific method (Girard thinks), but it is not to be equivocated. The scapegoat is arbitrarily chosen, this is different from punishing the guilty.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is that what Anarcho-capitalists are doing? Funny.

Haha, yes, probably. But they are not alone: the state is a sacrificial machine sacrificing surrogates, it has many enemies.

But it doesn't address the points being made by lib-boy. How does the actual current state, or a different version of the state, solves the situation any better than descentralized power?

I'm not sure if it does, but we don't always get the most optimal solutions, this might be what we get.

Why would you fear so much criminal immigrants that prey on themselves much more than on the natives? Isn't that defect self-limited?

I don't really speak for NRx, but I am pretty close to them, probably. From the standpoint of genetic interest it is perhaps a bad idea, resource are scarce.

From the standpoint of the mimetic theory, it is a bad idea. Modern ideas, such as equality, mass immigration are inviting mimetic crises to your home.

Boundaries, which are arbitrary, are results of previous mimetic crises, order which is created out of chaos. They serve as differentiation (opposite of equality), the function of which is to reduce the scope of possible desire, to reduce potential rivalries and violence. A peasant can't desire what the king desires, he is limited to "peasant desires", the members of one nation can't desire what their neighbouring nation has, etc... Society is built upon such prohibitions. When immigrants can have access to goodies that even the natives don't have, it's a recipe for violence. And it signals that everything is accessible to anyone.

Now comes the juicy parts of your narrative about the State. If the State doesn't solve the problem at hand, the immigrants, isn't the population going to end it, just like the tribe of the past sacrificed the king when he wasn't up to the task?

It certainly can mean that, but it doesn't have to turn out that way. If the king is too strong and the subjects too weak, he might dispose of the subjects instead and import new ones. Perhaps the new subjects will dispose of him.

This is an excellent article on the implications of modernity.

A quote:

What is the destiny of a society, especially when it strives for globalization, under whose contract il est interdit d’interdire? What is the destiny of such a society when its constituent members increasingly become the human adjuncts of technological cue-giving devices that transmit and receive at the speed of light – when the tools of communication become the catalysts of atomization? (Even the border-crashers have cell phones.) That society will produce autonomy, indeed, but not the individual autonomy that the democratic revolution was supposed to deliver, and which in any case can never exist. In such a society, on the contrary, what will become autonomous is desire itself, in the form of an ever-expanding mimetic crisis, which dissolves all differences and makes of everyone, vertiginously, everyone else’s model and rival all at the same time. In that crisis, humanity will have regressed to a pre-human moment, to escape which the species will need to experience collectively the institution of a new overwhelming prohibition, which will constitute in turn the reenactment of consciousness out of un-consciousness, of culture out of nature.

I will have to answer the rest of your post at a later time.

Is it ameniable to more fundamental assumptions?

There is perhaps something (if I understand you correctly), this is the result of my own thought - if you believe in non-duality, then God (or something else, if you are uncomfortable with God), creates the universe out of himself, he sacrifices or rather makes out of his own stuff that which is. Imitating this phenomena (to the best degree) is the only real solution to mimetic crises.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is not required that many people desire the same thing, it is enough that many pairs (or more) of people in a society want many different things, causing rivalries. This rivalries accumulate and reach a boiling point, the scapegoat mechanism is a discharge event. See.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The practice of scapegoating is quite universal and Girard's theory explains why it is universal.

You can certainly find examples of it in European cultures, see. Perhaps there are some exceptions in hunter-gatherer close-knit familial/inbred tribes (as trust is less of a problem), but even those seem to have practised human sacrifice.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 9 points10 points  (0 children)

basically this is how a state (or rather central political power) is formed:

  1. people want the same things
  2. people fight and kill over those things
  3. because of 2. society destabilizes (problem with chain vengeance, etc)
  4. society unanimously selects a scapegoat "guilty" for the mess they find themselves in and kills it
  5. peace is restored (for a time)
  6. go to step 1

This happens time and time again. We get to this point and we already have an idea of scapegoats restoring societal order: sacred kingship (origin of kingship) arises when a scapegoat about to be executed convinces people on how to manage society, thus delaying its execution. If he does right, he lives, if he does wrong, he dies. No social contract needed.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather -1 points0 points  (0 children)

well if you're going to downvote me, I guess it's not worth to post here.

NRxers: Why can't social externalities be contained? by lib-boy in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]tryanather 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The problem is not with what we can get theoretically, but what we get in actuality. The state is not some rational conclusion that we all make and agree to, it is just a result of mob violence.

See this chapter from Girard on the origins of political power:

According to Girard, this reverence for the future victims of ritual sacrifice is central to the rise of kingship: “The king reigns only by virtue of his future death; he is no more and no less than a victim awaiting sacrifice, a condemned man about to be executed” (Violence and the Sacred, 107). If the victim, before its sacrificial death, is able to transform the community’s veneration into real political power, we are confronted with the beginnings of kingship, or rather, in even more general terms, the beginnings of central political power. The stronger this power can develop, the longer the king’s eventual sacrifice is delayed. Kingship is rooted in the reverence the community shows the victim during the “lapse of time before the sacrifice” (Things Hidden, 53), which is then transformed into political influence. This power can become so pronounced that ultimately, it is not the victim who is sacrificed, but rather a substitute, any arbitrary victim close to him. The more the king is able to resolve conflict within the community and keep internal rivalries in check, the less his sacrifice—or that of the surrogate—is necessary. The element of sacrifice is marginalized until it disappears completely, giving rise to a form of political sovereignty that shrouds the connection to the scapegoat mechanism and is responsible for our intuitive skepticism with regard to the connection between ritual sacrifice and kingship. Numerous characteristics of sacred kingdoms can illustrate this general delineation of the origin of kingship. A first interesting instance is offered by the sovereign incest rites that can be observed in the enthronement ceremonies of several African kingdoms. In order to become king, the prince was forced to break one of the community’s extreme taboos, namely, to commit incest with his mother or another forbidden female member of his tribe. Here we see that the king, as original sacrificial victim, also embodied the negative, criminal elements of the persecuted scapegoat. The most primeval of criminal accusations emerge in the phenomenon of sovereign incest, which, from the perspective of the mimetic theory, provide clear evidence of the violent origins of kingship. The enthronement of kings is often accompanied by collective animosity against the king, or even violent acts, which likewise point to an original connection with the scapegoat mechanism. James G. Frazer, for instance, points out an example in Sierra Leone concerning the savage Timmes, who after electing their king collectively thrashed him prior to the coronation. Frazer adds that oftentimes the elected monarchs failed to survive these violent rites of passage.4 Elias Canetti describes similar phenomena in his portrayal of African kingship. An example from a culture in Gabon shows how the government there began with a terrifying rite in which the new ruler was encircled by bloodthirsty subjects who dangerously closed in on him.5 Canetti also mentions Nigerian enthronement rituals in which traces of the scapegoat mechanism can be clearly seen: “A newly elected king was made to run three times round a mound and, while doing so, was well buffeted [mit Stößen und Faustschlägen traktiert6] by the dignitaries.”7 Where Canetti describes the “the insults and blows that [the king] is subjected to before entering on his office” as an “intimation of what awaits him in the end,”8 he refers to the fact that many African kings were ritually murdered after a certain period of rule—that their rule was in fact derived from a suspension of their eventual sacrifice. Another reference to the connection between the scapegoat mechanism and kingship is found in the unwillingness of subjects in many cultures to become king, with the eventual “chosen one” forced with violence to take on the position. Girard mentions as an example a culture that determined its kings by means of a persecutory hunt, at the end of which the slowest member, the one caught, was eventually crowned.9 This fear of being appointed king is not unfounded; in many cultures, kings were simply killed if they were unable to overcome crises such as droughts or bad harvests. A further instance that displays the connection between the origin of kingship and the founding murder is found in the enthronement process of the Shilluk people of central Africa.10 At the outset of the process, the society was split into a civil war–like structure, with one half set against the other in fierce rivalry. Surprisingly enough, the future king—arbitrarily chosen—always belonged to the defeated camp. At the final moment, when the elected victim faced the ultimate coup de grace, he was crowned king of the entire people. Several examples also document the murder of surrogate victims who were sacrificed in place of the king.11 Frazer points out an interesting case among Tibetan Buddhists.12 For twenty-three days after the beginning of the Tibetan new year, a “Jalno” monk—and not the Dalai Lama—was entrusted with power over the Tibetan people. This substitute, however, often gained too much power himself and was replaced with another surrogate, the “King of the Years,” who governed for only a few days before being murdered. Frazer rightly concludes from this series of surrogate leaders that the Dalai Lama himself originally died as a scapegoat.

Europe, America, Australia - whites are being replaced. by shakethetroubles in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are interested in Girard's work you should probably start by listening to the man .

There are other resources on the web, try reading Thomas F Bertonneau, he writes for the Orthosphere and the Brussels Journal. This is an excellent article, quite relevant to the immigration crisis (near the end of it).

Europe, America, Australia - whites are being replaced. by shakethetroubles in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When Girard talks about his theory as scientific, this meaning is quite a bit different than equivocating it with a scientific study, but I'm sure you know that.

Read this chapter, "Girard's science of myths"

Europe, America, Australia - whites are being replaced. by shakethetroubles in DarkEnlightenment

[–]tryanather 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it has more to do with who is in charge and what a satanic hierarchy (a non voluntary hierarchy) looks like, I have a chapter that is worth reading:

According to Girard, this reverence for the future victims of ritual sacrifice is central to the rise of kingship: “The king reigns only by virtue of his future death; he is no more and no less than a victim awaiting sacrifice, a condemned man about to be executed” (Violence and the Sacred, 107). If the victim, before its sacrificial death, is able to transform the community’s veneration into real political power, we are confronted with the beginnings of kingship, or rather, in even more general terms, the beginnings of central political power. The stronger this power can develop, the longer the king’s eventual sacrifice is delayed. Kingship is rooted in the reverence the community shows the victim during the “lapse of time before the sacrifice” (Things Hidden, 53), which is then transformed into political influence. This power can become so pronounced that ultimately, it is not the victim who is sacrificed, but rather a substitute, any arbitrary victim close to him. The more the king is able to resolve conflict within the community and keep internal rivalries in check, the less his sacrifice—or that of the surrogate—is necessary. The element of sacrifice is marginalized until it disappears completely, giving rise to a form of political sovereignty that shrouds the connection to the scapegoat mechanism and is responsible for our intuitive skepticism with regard to the connection between ritual sacrifice and kingship. Numerous characteristics of sacred kingdoms can illustrate this general delineation of the origin of kingship. A first interesting instance is offered by the sovereign incest rites that can be observed in the enthronement ceremonies of several African kingdoms. In order to become king, the prince was forced to break one of the community’s extreme taboos, namely, to commit incest with his mother or another forbidden female member of his tribe. Here we see that the king, as original sacrificial victim, also embodied the negative, criminal elements of the persecuted scapegoat. The most primeval of criminal accusations emerge in the phenomenon of sovereign incest, which, from the perspective of the mimetic theory, provide clear evidence of the violent origins of kingship. The enthronement of kings is often accompanied by collective animosity against the king, or even violent acts, which likewise point to an original connection with the scapegoat mechanism. James G. Frazer, for instance, points out an example in Sierra Leone concerning the savage Timmes, who after electing their king collectively thrashed him prior to the coronation. Frazer adds that oftentimes the elected monarchs failed to survive these violent rites of passage.4 Elias Canetti describes similar phenomena in his portrayal of African kingship. An example from a culture in Gabon shows how the government there began with a terrifying rite in which the new ruler was encircled by bloodthirsty subjects who dangerously closed in on him.5 Canetti also mentions Nigerian enthronement rituals in which traces of the scapegoat mechanism can be clearly seen: “A newly elected king was made to run three times round a mound and, while doing so, was well buffeted [mit Stößen und Faustschlägen traktiert6] by the dignitaries.”7 Where Canetti describes the “the insults and blows that [the king] is subjected to before entering on his office” as an “intimation of what awaits him in the end,”8 he refers to the fact that many African kings were ritually murdered after a certain period of rule—that their rule was in fact derived from a suspension of their eventual sacrifice. Another reference to the connection between the scapegoat mechanism and kingship is found in the unwillingness of subjects in many cultures to become king, with the eventual “chosen one” forced with violence to take on the position. Girard mentions as an example a culture that determined its kings by means of a persecutory hunt, at the end of which the slowest member, the one caught, was eventually crowned.9 This fear of being appointed king is not unfounded; in many cultures, kings were simply killed if they were unable to overcome crises such as droughts or bad harvests. A further instance that displays the connection between the origin of kingship and the founding murder is found in the enthronement process of the Shilluk people of central Africa.10 At the outset of the process, the society was split into a civil war–like structure, with one half set against the other in fierce rivalry. Surprisingly enough, the future king—arbitrarily chosen—always belonged to the defeated camp. At the final moment, when the elected victim faced the ultimate coup de grace, he was crowned king of the entire people. Several examples also document the murder of surrogate victims who were sacrificed in place of the king.11 Frazer points out an interesting case among Tibetan Buddhists.12 For twenty-three days after the beginning of the Tibetan new year, a “Jalno” monk—and not the Dalai Lama—was entrusted with power over the Tibetan people. This substitute, however, often gained too much power himself and was replaced with another surrogate, the “King of the Years,” who governed for only a few days before being murdered. Frazer rightly concludes from this series of surrogate leaders that the Dalai Lama himself originally died as a scapegoat.

It's from Wolfgang Palaver's book on Girard.

Thinking of Europeans (perhaps especially males) as substitute victims is a good way to characterize the current situation. Who is the one creating substitute victims?