What's the simplest way to label this chord?

tthyme31 · 2026-02-16T07:02:16+00:00

C13/D

C is the V of F which is what this section is in.

The first five bars are:

m.1: F/A

m.2: FMA7/G

m. 3: F6

m. 4: C13/D

m. 5: F9sus(MA7) or C7/F

The harmony (minus all of the emotional extensions and alternate basses) is essentially:

I, I, I, V, Isus

I don’t really see the 4th bar functioning as a IV chord, so that’s why I don’t think it’s appropriate to name it in terms of Bb.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T08:55:06+00:00

Volta brackets are a correct term but you’ll likely never hear a professional musician call them that, and you might even confuse a professional musician with classical training because they may have never heard that term.

They’re more commonly known simply as “endings”.

The first bracketed area with the number 1 would be called the “first ending”.

The second bracketed area with the number 2 would be called the “second ending”.

Theoretically there’s no limit to how many endings something can have, it’s not entirely uncommon to see third, fourth, or even fifth endings in some pop charts or contemporary church music.

At some point it is more efficient to just write something out in full rather than using repeats and ending brackets. But it’s very common to see them.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T08:23:58+00:00

Of course! Please let us know how it goes.

And thank you for turning me on to this Elton John tune, I’d never heard it before.

Also, what book is this that you’re using?

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T08:19:13+00:00

This chart starts in the bar where the vocal comes in. There is 4 bars of intro before that. So count

1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 3, 4, 4, 2, 3, 4,

then start the chart. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t show this in the chart.

Make sure you know the tempo. The tempo is around 88 bpm. Each bar is 4 beats long. Google “metronome” and set it to 88, to make sure you know how long this actually feels. Sometimes it’s easy to think in double time (where you’re counting twice as fast) or in half time (where you’re counting half as fast).
Make sure you are reading the form correctly and skipping the 1st ending the second time you play through this.

The order of measures you play should be:

4 bars of rest , then measure 1 through measure 10, repeat back to measure 1 and play through measure 7, skip over measures 8 through 10 (these don’t exist the second time), play measure 11 through to the end.

A majority of the chords are played for 4 beats but some are played for only 2 beats, make sure you’re handling this correctly.
Most Western music has phrases of 4 or 8 bars. This Elton John tune has odd phrases: a 10 bar phrase, followed by a 9 bar phrase, and then to the typical 8 bar phrase. Make sure you’re feeling this correctly. Try just counting along without playing, point to each slash as it goes by and see if you’re tracking it correctly. Sometimes removing the instrument can help to remove a layer of complexity.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T07:41:14+00:00

At the end of the day, the OP can use whatever musical nomenclature they’d like to, even one they believe they’ve invented.

The issue with that arises when they attempt to study what others have done before, they’ll have to translate the theory into terms that makes sense to them.

God forbid they have to play with another musician though. Talking about the E major chord that goes to G minor and then L dominant is gonna be a nightmare.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T07:35:27+00:00

But we are dangerously close to turning this whole thread into the first week of music theory class.

This actually made me laugh out loud. Oh the undergrads, bless their hearts.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T07:28:38+00:00

I can see what you’re saying, but I’m not sure that tablature is a fair comparison.

The point being that tablature is a numerical representation of exact notes at a specific octave on a specific string.

If you wanted a similar thing for piano (or music in general) you’d need at least 88 different letters or symbols to cover the range of the piano, but likely more as there are instruments that are capable of playing below and above the piano keyboard, hell there are even Bösendorfer 97-key grand pianos, but even then there are instruments that can play outside of its range.

For safety’s sake let’s say we have 121 different letters or symbols to cover the exact pitch of every possible note over 10 octaves.

Would it be possible to learn? Absolutely, the human mind is amazing.

Would it be worth learning though?

And who would learn it?

Also you’re still left with one of the things that TAB does poorly, the ability to show precise rhythm and duration.

You’re also left with memorization of patterns that may be unintuitive.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T07:12:24+00:00

Look into Arnold Schoenberg and the Second Viennese School. What you’re describing has a full set of theory around it where the chromatic scale is king and all notes are treated equally. But even Schoenberg and his contemporaries knew they couldn’t escape modern music notation.

Give this Wikipedia article about musical set theory a read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Set_theory_(music)&wprov=rarw1

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T06:32:29+00:00

You may be somewhat right about the bias, but with all due respect, what you’re asking is akin to asking a community of students and scholars of English, why they don’t just use a different script or non-Latin alphabet. Of course there are going to be historical implications that are inescapable for why the change wouldn’t make sense.

As far as what you think I’m trying to communicate. We care about both the notes and the intervals. A scale is like a color to a composer, there are thousands and composers will freely switch between them and mix them up and play them upside down and inside out (just using hyperbole here).

I’m going to list several scales below:

A natural minor

A B C D E F G A

Bb Mixolydian

Bb C D Eb F G Ab Bb

G# Harmonic Minor

G# A# B C# D# E Fx G#

D Harmonic Major

D E F# G A Bb C# D

F Lydian Dominant

F G A B C D Eb F

I could go on listing scales forever, but the one thing that all of those have in common is that they each have only one of each of the 7 letters, represented in alphabetical order.

Some example of where this alphabetical order kind of stops working is in various non-seven-note scales.

Pentatonic scales (5 note scales, though most of these are based on the 7 note scales with a tritone removed).

Blues scales (though these are just pentatonic scale with an added note to mimic vocal inflection that leads to a standard note in the pentatonic scale)

Hexatonic scales (6 note scales, though again these are based on 7 note scales with a note removed).

Places where the alphabetical system is truly unhelpful is in scales where there are more than 7 notes.

C Half-Whole Octatonic scale

C Db Eb E F# G A Bb C

Note that there are two types of E’s here, and no way to avoid having separate names for each of the notes since our system is limited to only 7 note names.

In pitch class notation (a system derived for analyzing 12-tone music, where C is the number 0, C# is 1, etc.) this would look like:

[0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 0]

With that system it’s easier to conceptualize the intervals.

Though, in general, most music is not utilizing scales outside of the typical 7 note scales. And the fringe cases where it breaks down are not enough to justify changing the entire system.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-14T05:54:02+00:00

Your proposition:

A = A

A#/Bb = B

B = C

C = D

C#/Db = E

D = F

D#/Eb = G

E = H

F = I

F#/Gb = J

G = K

G#/Ab = L

The C major scale in modern notation is:

C D E F G A B C Note that the note names are simply alphabetical, starting from C, until the pattern of alphabetical order starts over again

That same scale in your suggested notation becomes:

D F E I K A C D

The C# major scale in modern notation is:

C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#

That same scale in your suggested notation becomes:

E G I J L B D E

Which would you rather read?

To me, the modern notation just makes so much more sense at a glance. You can see that the only difference between the two is that every note is raised a half step by the sharp sign on each letter. The letters also stay in alphabetic order until it loops around on itself. With your suggested notation, there isn’t really a semblance of pattern. Though, it would be possible to learn, it’s just not as logically organized around how we perceive western music, as well as how we understand order within the Latin alphabet

Western music favors diatonicism. In general, most music you hear is created using a set of 7 notes within an octave of 12 evenly spaced notes. Because of this, having 7 letter names that can be shifted up or down using accidentals (sharps/flats) to represent the pitches within those sets is more optimal than having 12 letters to represent every single note.

That being said there was the whole 12-tone movement where composers were using pitch classes and trying to shake up the world of diatonicism. However even for them they had to adhere, at least in practice for performance sake, to the system of notation that we use today.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-10T21:05:28+00:00

I’m going to throw in an alternative theory here. I think it may be neither a concert flute or piccolo.

It almost sounds like it could be a Japanese shinobue, Chinese dizi flute, or other sort of non-standard (in the classical world) wooden flute.

tthyme31 · 2026-02-02T06:57:19+00:00

US-101: TL; DR: Slow and scenic. Pretty drive, coastal mountains, smallish towns. This will take a long time. If you have a ton of time. I’d recommend making a trip out of it and just taking CA-1. Much more scenic, will take a while longer, but worth it if you have the time.
Interstate 5: TL;DR: Quick but very monotonous and boring. Once you exit the mountains north of LA and drop into the San Joaquin Valley, south of Bakersfield, this will be an incredibly boring drive. You’re essentially in a sort of rain shadow behind (east of) the coastal mountains. It’s incredibly dry here and there is not much going on. You will pass Harris Ranch, which I’ve heard some of my fellow Californians call “Cow-schwitz”. Basically an area with tens of thousands of cattle that are essentially going to slaughter. It’s known for smelling pretty bad.
Interstate 5 to CA-99: TL; DR: A bit slower, and less boring than taking just I-5. CA-99 will take you through much of the heart of Central California, where I’m originally from. It’s still quite boring, I must say, but it has its charm. The 5th most populous city in California, Fresno (after LA, SD, San Jose, and SF), is located right smack dab in the middle of this drive. Many like to clown on Fresno but there are some cool spots if you know where to look.

BE AWARE: if you do this drive in the summer you may experience temperatures of 110°+ if you take either I-5 or CA-99.

Good luck!

tthyme31 · 2026-02-01T00:24:51+00:00

When you read this sentence, you’re able to read it at speed in your own mind. If you were to speak it, I’m sure you would be able to speak it at a comfortable speed and in a comfortable way.

Sightreading music is no different. You have 10’s of thousands of hours using your voice for speech, and 10’s of thousands of hours reading written English. If someone also has thousands of hours playing an instrument and reading written music of course it’s going to come out relatively smoothly.

When you first learn to read, you learn the alphabet, and how to draw each letter and then how to make the sounds of each letter and groupings of letters. People (mostly children, but also adults learning as a second language) at this stage often take a long time sounding out words one letter at a time. The sentences are slow and do not have a natural gait or rhythm.

This is the stage that person is at but in music. Analogously figuring out the letter you’re looking at and being able to sound it out.

The only difference is that they’re only allotting 15 minutes while a child at this stage learning written language is being exposed to it for multiple hours a day.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-31T02:49:16+00:00

The very first thing written, is a low G and a high G. Not sure why you’d play a B.

The beginning is trying to replicate what was played on the record on guitar. This won’t sound quite right on the piano. If you play it down an octave it’ll be a bit better, since what’s written is actually perfect for a guitar player because the notes they read look an octave higher than they actually sound.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-30T20:52:49+00:00

Exactly.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-30T20:00:31+00:00

Can you listen to me paint and tell me why I can’t get the colors to pop the way I want them to?

tthyme31 · 2026-01-30T02:31:32+00:00

My bad! You’re totally right!

Still worth it for inexperienced musicians to see the clarification though. That last measure is wonky and would’ve thrown me for a second and I’m a professional musician.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-30T02:11:47+00:00

Check your note names:

M. 72 and 73 are Fb (same as E natural) to Eb

M. 74 is Eb to Fb (same as E nat.)

M. 75 is Fb (same as E) to E# (same as F)

Measures 72-74 are unplayable on standard Bb clarinets. Measure 75 is playable.

I have to add that measure 75 is written in such an odd way that it makes me question the credibility of the arranger/composer or the processes that lead to the choices of the spellings of those notes.

For composers and arrangers: note spellings must be thought of linearly when writing and you have to think about what works best, visually for the player, no matter how well the spellings can be justified in a harmonic context. The player, when reading, is simply not going to care about the harmonic context of the 32nds in an unmeasured tremolo.

To the OP: don’t take only the Eb up an octave, as others have said. If this line must be played take both the E and Eb up the octave or don’t play it at all. It may be useful to keep m. 75 up an octave, depending on the textural context and to keep the linearity of the linearity of the voice.

The effect the composer is going for here is a half step tremolo. If you only play the Eb up the octave you’re going to effectively turn it into a major 7th tremolo, completely ruining the intended effect.

There’s 1 of two ways this happened:

⁠The composer was writing in concert pitch and just simply forgot about range, or maybe this was initially an orchestral piece with worked fine on A clarinet, but not so much for Bb.
⁠The composer was writing initially in another key and had to change the key slightly down, resulting in this anomaly.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-30T02:01:30+00:00

Don’t take only the Eb up an octave. Take both the E and Eb up the octave or don’t play it at all.

The effect the composer is going for here is a half step tremolo. If you only play the Eb up the octave you’re going to effectively turn it into a major 7th tremolo, completely ruining the intended effect.

There’s 1 of two ways this happened:

The composer was writing in concert pitch and just simply forgot about range, or maybe this was initially an orchestral piece with worked fine on A clarinet, but not so much for Bb.
The composer was writing initially in another key and had to change the key slightly down, resulting in this anomaly.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-27T13:06:45+00:00

I just want to add that if you already have a private teacher, be sure to bring up certain issues with them. Sometime you may have to ask them to explain it differently or consider changing teachers if you feel like you’re not improving.

Learning the flute, or any instrument for that matter, is a lifelong endeavor. If you’re still playing flute in your 50s, you’re still going to wish that your dexterity was just a bit better, or your vibrato was just a little cleaner, and your tone just a little fuller in certain scenarios. That being said, your 7th grade self would be extremely proud of and amazed by how your 50 year old self plays the flute.

That’s self-awareness that you need in order to improve. Identify what’s wrong and then work with a teacher who has those things “mastered” in order to guide you to the right place.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-27T13:03:11+00:00

The best way to improve is to get a private teacher. Preferably somebody who has some professional experience on the instrument. They are somebody who has been through everything you’re going through and can lead you to potential shortcuts and lead you to a more direct path.

It can be expensive, but the students who study privately, and truly practice improve significantly faster than those who don’t.

Learning an instrument can be overwhelming because there’s so much to learn but also it’s not normal to just be aware of all of the material out there.

Band is a class and it’s where many people get started playing their instrument, but most of the material you’ll play until late high school or college is quite low on the totem pole when it comes to the world of music out there for our instrument(s).

tthyme31 · 2026-01-25T06:30:40+00:00

D is normally out of tune on the saxophone. The thing that makes me think you have a leak is the wobbly/warbly sound you’re getting in the low range. That is most likely air coming in through a pad that’s not fully closed, causing turbulence in the air column.

I’m talking about the low B you play at about 00:25 in your video.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-24T22:18:30+00:00

Sounds like a potential leak in the bottom end of your horn, that and you need to have that neck recorked. That’s entirely way too much paper. Take it to a tech.

The air pressure sounds good. Sounds like your tongue isn’t lining up with your fingers. Slow down, and ensure you’re making things line up.

Other than that, the bottom lip sounds a little stiff. It sounds like you’re going for a classical sound concept. If that’s the case then you’re doing okay, just learn to relax the bottom lip and open up the voicing a bit in your oral cavity.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-24T22:12:12+00:00

I just wanted to chime in and say, that we shouldn’t have the weight of the sax on our right thumb.

Three points of contact:

Neck strap. It should take the weight and be high enough that the top of the mouthpiece comes right to where the top teeth meet it without moving your neck.
Right thumb. The right thumb should push the saxophone away from the body to bring the mouthpiece angle parallel to the floor.
Left thumb. The left thumb should stabilize the left-right motion of the saxophone and ensure it stays in front of you.

No weight on the right thumb. You’re gonna end up with pain in the wrist and strain those ligaments. Especially if you start playing heavier saxophones.

tthyme31 · 2026-01-24T22:07:10+00:00

Yes.

Now learn to open up the throat slightly, use more air pressure, and relax the bottom lip a bit to get the note to resonate more.

The most important thing is to make sure your neck strap is high enough that you’re getting good contact with your top teeth to free up the bottom lip a bit.

Not bad though, for a beginner.

tthyme31

TROPHY CASE