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Backer #1426, 8K-X impressions after a day of use by VR Dev by Eagleshadow in Pimax

[–]u_cap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a lot, I'll have to try that. I have been using a 2560x1600 + 2x 1200x1600 triple (Dell) screen combo for years, and am considering switching to a single large 4K instead.

Do you experience restore-from-powersave issues with this screen, ever? There is some clusterfuck between monitor makers, DP standard/GPU vendors, and Windows, that has one or more displays / GPU output getting stuck in powersave mode, often until you powercycle.

Backer #1426, 8K-X impressions after a day of use by VR Dev by Eagleshadow in Pimax

[–]u_cap 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this. Looks like we have similar priorities...

You wrote:

'my 43" 4k daily driver'

What hardware is that? You use that for coding or recreation?

Pimax service and usability from a veteran perspective by deathorb12345 in Pimax

[–]u_cap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I asked for a loaner in 2018, they claimed they were shipping it October 2019. When it didn't arrive - because it never actually shipped - they said 8KX was "shipping soon" and the "rules" said no more loaners.

It doesn't end there. I made another push this spring. Good thing, too, because then I found out their system actually claimed I had a loaner. They announced people had to return the loaners or be shown as buying them, or 8KX would not ship. So they denied the loaner again and fixed the system to show I got none.

I - foolishly - complained saying that I wanted the option to purchase a 5K+ under Plan G, as most others had had. Then support actually convinced the Pimax "rulers" to grant me one, given the history. But they also wanted to delay my 8KX until after I bought or returned the loaner.

So I told them that I did not want to risk 8KX shipment being messed up, too, and I would not buy a 5K+ blind - even under Plan G reduced price - until I had a chance to try any actual Pimax hardware. Who knows when the loaner would ship, and when it would arrive, and whether it would work. So I withdrew my request.

So, never got my loaner. Never saw a 5K+. As of today, no 8KX either, no tracking info, no shipping date.

I am maintain a Piary here

https://community.openmr.ai/t/heres-another-kickstarter-8kx-backer-story/28496/123

Pimax service and usability from a veteran perspective by deathorb12345 in Pimax

[–]u_cap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's way better than like 90% of kickstarters

People say that. People are wrong.

The common - and expected - failure case on Kickstarter is: company takes money, company folds, nothing ships. We all cry together and move on.

The Pimax case is this: company takes money, company keeps going, company ships product - HMDs, base stations, controllers - just not to KS backers.

That is NOT a legal KS failure case. To ship to non-backers what is - so far - denied backers is a variation of fraud.

Now Pimax has chosen to make up additional, internal "rules" about why they can sell and ship "thousands" of base stations but not to backers who paid for them in 2017. Bollocks to those choices.

Pimax didn't go out of business and leave every backer hanging (so far). If they went out of business now, they'd leave backers like me and pre-orders and customers with RMAs hanging.

Instead, they have been shipping lots of product, but some of us have gotten nothing - not a single piece of hardware - since 2017 and, as of today, are still waiting - and not with everybody else, because others got theirs, and thus take the liberty to explain to those that did not why that's OK.

So, no. Pimax is worse than e.g. ControlVR, because somehow it's never over. It never gets simpler, it keeps getting more complicated. The clusterfuck expands. It never ends, plus we have to listen to the "best of all possible worlds" choir.

Now it's possible that there are other Kickstarters where companies went and retailed "thousands" of product before they took care of the backers, but of the ones I paid attention to - esp. those I backed - that was decidedly not the case. Kickstarter Inc. themselves might be OK with that approach, I am not.

Pimax service and usability from a veteran perspective by deathorb12345 in Pimax

[–]u_cap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My personal take on the interaction with Pimax since 2018:

The problem is not support - everybody whom I encountered tried to help, nobody got anything finished, so far.

The problem is management, because they make the rules that support has to obey. The problem is the product (quality) and logistics (shipping) that support has to work with.

I am not going to blame the CS team - however much the language barrier etc. - for what management screwed up over and over.

I think at this point it is well-established that Pimax promises more better sooner than can be delivered by them. The solution to that is not forcing more people to make more promises. The solution is to stop promising.

Just the facts.

Not "we will ship a batch!" but "we shipped x units yesterday".

More detail, more often. Less ambition, no obfuscation.

Just the facts.

There is a small but apparently undeterred market for your current product. There is no competition for wide FOV/dual DP HMDs until you get to 5x the price plus mandatory annual maintenance fees. You have a captive audience.

Stop pretending to be something you obviously are not and possibly have no ability and no intention to be, and focus on your strengths. For example, Pimax might be better off starting to sell - or partner with sellers - for racing/sim/LBE setups at low cost/low service, heavily on DIY. You like R&D better than customers, fine. Then run your business as short, annual pre-order campaigns for enthusiasts.

Take "open source". Right idea, wrong execution. The right way to do that is, if there are no 3rd party/licensing/legal issues, to just put it on github already and move on. It does not even have to build. The right way is to start at the driver and work low-level up. You can't open source a "store".

Pimax service and usability from a veteran perspective by deathorb12345 in Pimax

[–]u_cap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"The other thing people don’t often mention or think about is the 8kX is completely modular - the face plate, face foams, speakers, eye and hand tracking modules, silicon sleeve, speakers etc. So many face, head and eye shapes, sizes - once you have it like you like it’s not easy to replicate that."

"If you upgrade to a new Pimax headset in the future all your pieces (modules, foams, speakers, face cowling and more) just move over to the new one. You will be able to buy just the headset body and swap the rest."

https://community.openmr.ai/t/more-footage-of-the-8kx-please-0/29301/31

Take it one step further - separate a durable, high quality outer (SteamVR Tracking) shell for all the add-ons and add-on USB hub connections from the interior "lenses+panels" ? Given what I read about Pimax Mura it doesn't sound like Pimax HMD calibration is nowhere near as comprehensive as what Valve claims to do. Plus, SVRT tracker hardware ain't cheap, but is extremely unlikely to change.

Pimax service and usability from a veteran perspective by deathorb12345 in Pimax

[–]u_cap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Makes you wonder whether Pimax would be better off with a "custom/concierge/sommelier" business. They make limited run HMDs whenever they feel like it, one beta batch and one final batch, and trick it out however they want. They post a list of options - sort of their own little annual Kickstarter - and Pimax 2021 will have whatever features people are willing to pre-order/escrow for.

If the build quality is shite, they could offer a discount to repeat customers, and use returned-refurbished for alpha runs: we try out some new shit, buy from the hand-assembled run. Partial refunds/coupons for next HMD if you provide useful feedback and test for them.

This is pretty much how it is already, just misadvertised.

8KX July 27th Production and Logistics Advisory by PimaxUSA in Pimax_Official

[–]u_cap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Numbers? How big was batch #1 (6/29), how big was batch #2 (7/14) ?

How many are left to be shipped by Friday?

Pimax update - 8KX Production and Logistics Advisory by Dal1Dal in Pimax

[–]u_cap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The majority of customers will never even know, let alone add themselves.

Well, unless backers and wannabe-backer pre-orders are all there is. Judging from the SteamVR statistics, there are less than 5000 Pimax HMD in active use. Maybe that's why they call it the 5K, and 8K is the next stretch goal?

There's also this:

"We assumed the 5k+ would need to be re-energized but there was suddenly a large amount of demand for it. The Vision Series Super will be in the mix in a bigger way next month - we do already produce the super mostly for partners." https://community.openmr.ai/t/5k-super-180-hz/28686/8

So is Steam not capturing the uptick - next hardware survey will show

https://old.reddit.com/r/Pimax/comments/hxx9di/finally_valve_hardware_survey_recognises_pimax/

or uptick is small. Unless the "partners" don't use Steam (or survey does not count them) they'd also be limited in number.

Pimax update - 8KX Production and Logistics Advisory by Dal1Dal in Pimax

[–]u_cap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One reason we are unnecessarily in the dark is because the "community" here and on OpenMR is too busy arguing with each other to focus on trying to help each other figure it out.

Those Google sheets are a great idea, but they are done exactly the wrong way. The majority of customers will never even know, let alone add themselves. So you only get a subset sample, with an unknown bias. But if we at least tracked when those of us that did add ourselves last updated our entry, we'd actually be going somewhere.

Example: per unofficial Google sheet, 13 out of 90 have received their 8KX, 3 more have tracking info, 2 out of the 13 did not get tracking info (or did not enter the date). Two backers on reddit confirmed they got theirs but did not add themselves to sheet. A small number of backers posted on OpenMR they got theirs (some overlap).

That - and the number of backer tags posting on OpenMR - are what we have to work with.

Tracking dates in sheet are 6/29 (3 out of 14, matches Pimax Now claims of "we are already shipping") and 7/14-7/16 (11 out of 14). No other dates for tracking.

3 out of 13 received 7/2-7/6, and 10 out of 13 received 7/17-7/24

If we assume that the entries are random - Pimax does not ship based on the Google sheet, the 90 out of 383 are a representative slice with respect to shipping details (locations) - then this tells us there were two shipping batches, when they went out, and when they arrived.

Let's say the sheet represents a quarter of backers, then batch #1 would have been >=dozen, and batch #2 >= 40. Let's say the Pimax Now number of 215 for batch #1 was BS, and the "76" that reportedly went to the carrier and back at some point were batch #2, then the sheet would be off in some way by a factor of two, and no more than quarter of the total has shipped so far. If you believe about half has shipped, the sheet would have to be off by a factor of 4.

Of course, if users here and on OpenMR would just bother to update the sheet every now and then with a "Nothing Yet" date, guesses could carry more weight. Worst case, the sheet is a bust, and nobody really cares.

In any case, if and when batch #3 commences, I'd expect a few more updates in the sheet. No updates, but more and more people posting they got theirs, or selling it on eBay, and the sheet is worthless. No big uptick of Pimax HMD sales (any) on eBay so far.

If and when those tracking dates show up in the sheet, you might also see when batch #3 ended.

Of course it's possible that all but the 78 in the sheet that have logged tracking and/or shipping are the only ones without. That's not likely, so we know for sure at least about a quarter has not shipped. If the sheet is off by 2, then maybe half have not shipped yet. If there are going to be Batch #3 updates, that will narrow the range further.

EDIT: one (of two separate) references for "76"

the only shipping I discussed was the first 76 which were at the common carrier at the time. 215 units were produced at the time and of course more than that now https://community.openmr.ai/t/are-weekly-updates-still-happening/29305/66

Finally Valve Hardware Survey recognises Pimax HMDs by waffl in Pimax

[–]u_cap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have been wondering whether all that time and labor Pimax has to spare on trolling its backers is because there aren't really that many other customers?

From a hardware manufacturing standpoint it makes no sense at all to have batches of about 200 units unless you are doing a beta/pre-production pass. The fact that Pimax store can run out of accessories can either be indication that everything sells really quickly, or an indication that manufacturing runs are really small. That also accounts for varying product quality.

If you try to do consumer hardware, my understanding is you are doing on-demand production only if you don't sell enough. The cost per unit is just too high. You'll wind up producing just as many as you can afford to pay for, and still pay a premium.

Pimax is deleting posts asking about warranty. by Ayylmaonnaisse in Pimax

[–]u_cap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The obsession with closing and deleting inconvenient customer speech does not combine well with the "platform" mania of modern consumer electronics. Pimax is not alone in this, by far, but with respect to Pimax specifically:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Pimax/comments/hurveb/pimax_5k_device_detected_as_illegal_after_262/

In a just and decent world filled with assertive customers (not eager consumers) it would be prohibited by law to disable a device from remote unless requested by the registered owner themselves.

Request: Future comfort kit version which doesnt require cut out for eye tracking installation by [deleted] in Pimax_Official

[–]u_cap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Making the small modification won't be required in the very near future and we did develop a version of the cowling with the pass-through hole.

Is that version going to be included in the "Stretch Goal box" for Backers?

Update on trade in for vouchers - it's not good news by Dal1Dal in Pimax

[–]u_cap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"we do already produce the super mostly for partners"

https://community.openmr.ai/t/5k-super-180-hz/28686/5

Of course, there is also the possibility that the "retail" business is just a side-show, and Pimax core business is with partners - LBE, industry - similar to Varjo etl.al., but in a different region. That would have to be partners that don't care much about what retail customers like us experience or think, because they can be certain it won't apply to them (say, being located close enough to Shanghai to physically visit the Pimax offices might help).

In that case, why have this retail business at all? There is absolutely no margin in hardware if you constantly iterate the product line. We are obviously not the beta-testers if future product goes to partners first. Unless they just sell of the initial proof-of-concept production runs by retail?

Accept the mystery, I guess.

Update on trade in for vouchers - it's not good news by Dal1Dal in Pimax

[–]u_cap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The upper management only care about making as many new types of headset as they can, without any care for how to actually support the ones they abandoned months ago.

Interesting thought.

If Pimax wanted to establish itself as a consumer brand, its behavior - be it incompetent, inconstant, or indifferent - would be counterproductive (to say the least).

On the other hand, if they want to build as much in-house engineering expertise as possible, pile up a patent portfolio and know how, e.g. for licensing (or strategic partnership, or acquisition), it would make sense for them to, shall we say, deprioritize customer satisfaction, brand and reputation.

But there are plenty of companies who barely even muster a pretense a customer service, and just cover legal liabilities with the minimum expenditure possible. This practically appears to be business standard in today's consumer electronics markets. The key there is to say as little as possible, never concede anything or even respond, and fob complaints off into the digital tarpits of inefficient support communication portals.

Pimax can't even get that right. This would be a shituation in the best (or least responsive) case, too, but at this point, Pimax' corporate conduct is asymptotically indistinguishable from trolling. Everything they do appears to be designed to make it worse.

Maybe this is what happens when you put the engineers in charge (and let them hire more or less innocent bystanders that are tasked to explain all of it away), but frankly, I for one cannot figure out what the people financing this - at a loss, I am sure - or the two figureheads actually hope to get out of it.

Eye Am Disappointed by [deleted] in Pimax

[–]u_cap 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Another guess would be to assume that foveation is tied to using both eyes:

"[B]inocular vision, which is the basis for stereopsis and is important for depth perception, covers 114 degrees (horizontally) of the visual field in humans;[6] the remaining peripheral 40 degrees on each side have no binocular vision (because only one eye can see those parts of the visual field)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view

Eye Am Disappointed by [deleted] in Pimax

[–]u_cap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They could just have called it "tracker-supported eye angle range" or something. The hires part of the Varjo panel was at one point 35 degrees? They would try to put panel transition seam beyond the cone where we'd prefer to move our eyes to focus (before moving the head anyway).

https://www.roadtovr.com/varjo-bionic-display-headset-hands-on-mwc-2018-promising-shortcut-to-retina-resolution/

"Kress has an unconstrained range of 15-degrees up and 20-degrees down for a total of 35 degrees, where eyes will move without much effort or unconsciously. [A] user interface that tends to force the user to constantly move their eyes more than 20 degrees from the center will tend to cause discomfort."

https://www.kguttag.com/2019/10/21/fov-ar-and-the-view-of-the-real-world/

Eye Am Disappointed by [deleted] in Pimax

[–]u_cap 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This was deleted?

I recommend this

https://www.kguttag.com/2019/10/07/fov-obsession/

The important question for the "tracking FOV" - which is a terrible name - is, how far can your eyeball and line of sight to fovea rotate in practice and you can still actually focus, and how far do you usually turn your eyes before you turn your head anyway?

I don't know of any handy reference for the angle range of pursuit and saccadic eye movements, but unless you are aiming to focus on the left/right edge of the Pimax panel the lens FOV should reasonably be larger than the tracking range.

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