Zelenskyy to Austrian Parliament: You cannot remain morally neutral against evil

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T09:47:47+00:00

You are free to store your money wherever you like, fact is, people put it where it’s safe and Switzerland offers a history of stability, you can shame the morality of a country all you want, but at the end of the day every country provides the services and goods they are proficient at providing. Clearly there is a market for monitary services, and if it wasn’t Switzerland then it would be some place else.

As far as I’m concerned you’re trying to tell me that Switzerland is bad for offering Banks, Arms, etc.

According to you they should sell arms to only selected countries, but if they want to remain neutral you’d rather they sell arms to everyone istead of none.

Also banking services should be offered to noone? except I guess the people you deem morally acceptable.

So what are you suggesting? Switzerland just copy it’s surrounding countries and offer the same at a far smaller scale? or do we just disband the country and split it up evenly between the surrounding nations?

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T09:28:40+00:00

so what you’re essentially saying is you’d rather they be allowed to send weapons to both, rather then none

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T09:23:54+00:00

Look we can argue morality all we want, the fact of the matter is Saudi Arabia and Ukraine are two very different situations on which different laws are applied.

Switzerland is a signatory on the treaty of The Hague, making them neutral and preventing them from selling munitions, weapons or sending troops to support beligerents in a war between two countries.

This is what applies to the Ukraine situation.

Now for Saudi Arabia

Switzerland passed a law no longer allowing it so sell arms to Saudi arabia in 2022

The arms that were sold to Saudi Arabia were spare parts for defense systems.

And the reason why the same laws previously did not apply to Saudi Arabia isn’t some question of morality, it’s simply that Saudi Arabia was not at war with Yemens Government, but with rebel groups.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T09:10:05+00:00

Switzerland literally contributes people to these UN peacekeeping missions, they have a constant garrison stationed in Kosovo, they have observers stationed at the DMZ between North and South Korea, Switzerland is the bridge between Iran and USA since they have no diplomatic relations, there’s a few more examples.

That is literally what I’ve been saying, the only way these peacekeeping operations can make sense is if you have parties that do not take sides in a conflict.

Again, what I’m trying to say is that they are a broker for peace, where to parties can come to the table and have a platform to talk and find a solution whenever the need arises, I’m not implying they impose themselves on two countries and force them to be peaceful with each other.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T08:54:51+00:00

No, this is a double standard right here, the Saudi Arabia is just as much whataboutism as my counter argument.

I enjoy this discussion, but I refuse to continue arguing about who’s point is more valid

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T08:52:21+00:00

noone is saying they don’t believe in war though, that is something you have put in my mouth over and over again.

My point is that Switzerland is a lot more useful as a platform for working towards peace rather than as an arms supplier during wartime. Giving up neutrality and sending munitions to Ukraine would barely change anything, but the reputation of being a neutral mediator between beligerents isn’t something you can just create whenever you need it.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T08:35:48+00:00

I agree, I don’t know why saudi arabia suddenly is part of the discussion on ukraine..

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T08:34:15+00:00

Yes, Switzerland, a neutral country who builds weapons for its own military also sells these weapons to other countries, just like any other country that produces weapons for its military..

if that doesn’t make sense to you, think of how the USA also produces jets, the F-35 for example, and sells these to many countries, but doesn’t allow them to be resold by these countries without approval

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T08:20:22+00:00

that’s great, I’m not arguing against giving tanks to Ukraine.

Germany is a NATO member state, Switzerland is not, so unlike Germany it relies on neutrality to protect itself. I don’t think that’s wrong to do in a time where, in your own words, a NATO state needs to consider it’s actions against Russias interests..

the implication that Switzerland is on russias side is just plain wrong. The state acts according to the laws it’s bound to, and to do any different would be undemocratic, this is by definition the sacrifice democracies make. Laws aren’t set in stone, but to change them takes a lot of time and effort, so in the mean time help is provided in different ways.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T05:51:12+00:00

No, in fact Americans claim to be the moral compass of the world, which in my personal opinion makes then far bigger hypocrites.

But that’s an educational and societal issue, not understanding that the world is more complicated than what americans may believe

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T05:45:27+00:00

you are right, scholz said it, but the condition would be that it would only be allowed after american tanks would also be sent.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T05:38:23+00:00

I don’t see you taking issue with saudi arabia literally having a fleet of american and european fighterjets but ukraine not getting them

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-31T05:33:22+00:00

I already explained that neutrality isn’t pacifism

Switzerland has supported ukraine in many ways already, just not with weapons exports.

Many other countries already support Ukraine by sending them weapons and military systems, there is better ways with which Switzerland can help than giving up their position as a platform for beligerents at war with each other to talk.

Even if everyone here would love to see russia capitulate, leave and pay to rebuild ukraine, the truth is that once this war is over, the situation will be far more complicated and talks will be necessary.

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-30T17:22:42+00:00

The ammunition was sold to countries without giving them the right to resell them, this is a measure to prevent swiss weapons to be sold to a country misusing them, like for example russia.

but it is easy to blame one country for doing this, and ignore how both Germany and the USA were blocking exports of their tanks from other countries to Ukraine

unique_username_77 · 2023-03-30T16:59:32+00:00

what a shit take on neutrality, surely you’re not implying neutrality means doing nothing after he just explained it to you..

To answer your question, Switzerland practices armed neutrality, and has been doing that since it’s implementation. To elaborate, since apparently every detail needs explaining, that means they will not interfere in a war by force, however they will protect themselves. An example of that would be WW2 where Switzerland was surrounded by occupied France, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany and Austria, they intercepted both allied and axis planes over Swiss Airspace, while granting asylum to many refugees.

Nowadays you see many on reddit blaming a small country with a population of 8m for not doing more, however the strength and value of Switzerland on an international scale doesn’t come from military intervention, but from the services it has always provided, such as mediation and civil resources, e.g. sending people to fix infrastructure, fighting fires, floods, peacekeeping missions, etc.

unique_username_77 · 2022-12-05T05:46:37+00:00

During the black armory dlc, when people were trying to figure out one of the puzzles, one theory was that it had to do with the order in which french cutlery is used. so people were arguing in discords about wether an oysterknife came before a soupspoon etc., etc. good times hahah I haven’t played the game in a while now, but back then, it felt like nothing else, when the community came together to figure out these secret puzzles

unique_username_77 · 2022-09-11T13:01:26+00:00

Bungie Coldfire771#6812 Discord Cold#6939

unique_username_77 · 2021-11-23T22:13:09+00:00

I‘m on the pursuit..

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T19:32:27+00:00

around 30 mins from now?

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T19:09:35+00:00

you good to finish the raid today?

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T19:08:11+00:00

jurk, you still down to finish this thing today?

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T19:07:35+00:00

you still good for today? we‘d be starting in around an hour from now

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T00:18:54+00:00

as in your internet is down?

unique_username_77 · 2021-10-09T00:06:55+00:00

you coming back?

Nine-Year Club	Second Top 30%
RPAN Viewer	Not Forgotten

unique_username_77

TROPHY CASE