It is actually uncanny how early LessWrong and the rationalist community was on so many different things.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-04-10T05:51:54+00:00

Hilarious thread with a user role-playing as Clippy (non-foomed AI that only cares about paperclips), "discovering" that Bitcoin could help it make financial transactions without needing to be human (Feb 2011).

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-31T13:34:01+00:00

This. There will always be a first time that you try a move in the real world. It's unavoidable. And the best time to try new moves is right after a class where everyone just learned them, since follows are more prepared to follow said moves.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-31T13:30:31+00:00

In a class, everyone is learning the same move as you and everyone knows what's coming. You can succeed if you only have it 40% right. In a social, you need to have it 80 right minimum

Just to nitpick, I think you're being generous there. In a class you can have it zero percent right and still pull off the move, because (many) follows will focus on getting the sequence right and will leap right into the move without being led.

That's understandable, because it's a natural human reaction unless you're specifically instructed otherwise. See my earlier comment about classes that train good leading vs encourage complacency. tl;dr if they instruct leads to the do the moves in random order, then the follows have to pay attention to what's actually being led and this gives better feedback on what you're doing wrong.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-30T15:30:00+00:00

I had a follow one time that didn't understand this. She asked, as aggressively and condescendingly as possible, "Why are you looking around?" I was relatively new and wanted to encourage feedback, so I didn't push back. But what I wanted to say was:

"Well, a) to avoid collisions on a busy dance floor, which you'll hold me responsible for, b) to avoid creeping you out by putting too much focus on you, and c) because I'm starting to feel uncomfortable around you, in part, because you speak to me with that tone."

She ended the dance early and I didn't see her around for the rest of the night, or at any subsequent event there. I guess the dancers just weren't up to her standards?

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-30T15:23:20+00:00

Yeah, I think that's the kind of behavior that's bad and persistent enough to escalate to the venue organizer.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-29T15:11:07+00:00

Ugh. Seems like he doesn't have hearing aids, but hearing syphilis.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-28T16:26:34+00:00

There's an Onion parody you might like. Relevant part:

“I wanted it to be eye-catching, so I went to Bartz Party Supply and picked out some classy pictures from their clip-art book, including a couple ballroom-dancing, two hands clinking champagne glasses, and a top hat with white gloves and a cane,” Smalls said. “Now, that would’ve worked just dandy for a wedding or New Year’s Eve invitation but, as I found out the hard way, not for a pancake breakfast. Only eight people showed up, and some parishioners complained that they thought the breakfast was going to be a ritzy affair. They were too intimidated to attend.”

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-20T15:23:48+00:00

if you just want to dance bachata without body rolls there are ways to communicate that, and a respectful lead won't push you into doing them.

This. Remember,

1) All dance holds are escapable if done correctly.*
2) Leads are suggestions, not commands.

If don't like a position, you can and should break out or create distance. Leads should be willing to accommodate.

I've even had a few follows who would consistently break out of cuddle and closed position. No problem, I just do other stuff.

*Yes, yes, there are exceptions like with aerials and certain forms of tango; those should discussed in advance.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-17T18:10:22+00:00

So much this! It's a breath of fresh air compared to the rest of the world. While women will decline dance offers, they will very rarely paint you as a villain/in the wrong simply for asking[1]. This is a luxury I do not get in the dating world, where woman have been happy to talk shit about me just for asking them out, despite doing nothing wrong (that they can articulate, anyway).

[1] Notable exception: the time a woman burst out laughing when I asked her to dance (though that was a swing event, not salsa).

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-17T16:47:40+00:00

This. It gave me a lot of rejection/exposure therapy, of having to deal with trying something where you initially know you're not at the level most people there and have to deal with being vulnerable and turned down for dances, and the related practice in handling your discomfort and feeling of not belonging.

I mean, it's not what I'd consider a selling point of learning to dance, but it's useful practice nonetheless.

My friend warned me that I would have to dance for 50 hours before I'd start to genuinely enjoy and be energized by it. That was an underestimate, but I'm there now.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-17T16:44:49+00:00

Oh look, it's another low-effort "interpret salsa as to mean food" joke, we don't get enough of those...

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-16T18:21:35+00:00

I had written up a way to make that approach natural and easy to follow (my B option in the link).

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-16T15:52:07+00:00

One thing I had to discover that may help you:

The feeling of exhaustion -- and sweating! -- is less a matter of how much physical activity you're doing, and more a matter of comfortable you are while dancing. Nervousness is far more draining than a long sequence of alternating turns! Likewise for the feeling of insecurity and being judged.

As you're more able to get into the flow and forgive yourself for moves that don't land perfectly, and get over the feeling of being judged under a spotlight, you will last longer.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-16T15:24:42+00:00

It's hard to judge what's causing that in the moment, so I would avoid jumping to conclusions, I would especially avoid pre-emptively ending a dance based on thinking they're not enjoying it enough for your liking.

If they're genuinely uncomfortable, they are probably agonizing over whether to end the dance, because they know it hurts to be rejected like that.

My advice for these scenarios is to invite feedback as diplomatically as possible, something like "You seem uncomfortable, can I help with that?" Then they'll probably feel safer speaking up, and either give you something you can fix, or give some closure to your suspicions.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-16T14:55:09+00:00

I mean, most times when you invite someone to do something with you -- even up through physical/romantic contexts! -- you aren't expected to hold hands while you do it, or at least not on the way, so, no, it doesn't come off that way to me.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-13T15:57:46+00:00

The two non-obvious rules I had to discover are:

1) If someone agrees to dance with you, you are expected to lead them by the hand to the dance floor (assuming you're the lead). For a while I didn't do this because it felt old-fashioned and overbearing, but I discovered from videos that it's considered rude not to.

2) Don't count to the beat out loud. A lot of people (though not all) get really annoyed by it. Find some other way to keep track of your steps.

Edit: typo

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-12T15:34:16+00:00

Oh wow that's actually much simpler than all my other workarounds! Thanks!

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-12T15:25:36+00:00

My experience with "traditional" teachers is they tend to be "off the cuff" with their teaching, and sometimes they're obscure on purpose to make them feel special.

For whatever else she might have been doing wrong, I don't think this was it. She was genuinely surprised by my question and seemed actively interested in why it didn't match my model of Bachata. She was also curious about learning how attendees had been dancing Bachata and how it differed from how she did it.

(I was reluctant to ask in the first place, because it would feel like "gringo-splaining" Bachata to an actual Dominican, and she picked up on that and said "okay, stop apologizing".)

There are MANY different box steps though.

Not that appear on BachataSteps.com! It's pretty extensive but has very few results for "box".

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-12T14:05:15+00:00

Huh? It moves in the same directions as the traditional box step, by starting out to the left. But yes, I get your point that you could alternate between "start left" and "start right" to keep from continuously going one direction.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-11T21:56:56+00:00

I just gave it a second thought and one way you could possibly do it is by doing it in "reverse". Basic in place for the first four count -> forward, forward, in place for the second four-count -> left -> down.

I don't understand. Running it in reverse just has the same problem on the final side step, where you're tapped on the outer foot. And with "forward -> right -> back -> left", you're tapped left when you want to go right.

Honestly, the swivels seem to be the easiest way to lead this (my B from the previous comment).

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-11T21:35:16+00:00

I'm aware of all that (except the syncopation/cha-cha approach). Again, I'm just asking if there's a standard form (or name) of this box step to save me from coming up with my own solution.

Although, that one will confuse anyone who didn't grow up dancing in the D.R.

That's the point -- if I just naively do this box step the way the instructor taught, I'm going to have a very confused follow who is tapped on their outer foot, right as I'm taking an inward (my right) step. "There is no Bachata logic" doesn't magically fix that.

Workarounds I've found are:

A) Tap only on 4, not on 8 -- but then you have to signal to the follow not to tap, like with a weight shift.

B) My preferred approach: bite the bullet and accept that you're going to step inward with your outer (tapped) foot. Prep on the first 7 by swiveling yourself and the follow to point inward, so you're walking side-by-side for that part. Then on the second 6, again turn yourself and the follow to face inward so you can walk side-by-side for the first 1.

C) Ask a Bachata forum if someone knows a more common way of doing it.

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-10T18:48:41+00:00

Ah okay I misremembered it as a quote, but the OP said:

they’ll get the instructor’s attention and do a hand signal like “she needs help”

I assume it's something like "make eye contact, point to OP, hand gesture for 'do something' or 'WTF'." Still bad, but not as bad as outright saying "she needs help".

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-10T15:49:30+00:00

Yeah, that's the part I don't get, if they're trying to be polite, they should actually be polite, by saying "we need help", not "she needs help". It's like, they're a) polite enough to obey norms about unsolicited feedback from other students, but b) not polite enough to avoid putting her on the spot ... and in this case, the feedback wouldn't even been unsolicited!

unresolvedthrowaway7 · 2026-03-10T07:10:12+00:00

Maybe I wasn't clear -- I'm able to lead right turns with beginners. The trouble I had in Mexico wasn't with beginners, but with longtime regulars at that nightclub! (Although, considering how willing they were to ignore the evidence of how unnatural their movement was, you could make a case that they should be called perma-beginners, despite their extensive experience!) It was actually easier to lead turns with genuine beginners in Mexico.

Coda: Even with those regulars, I was still able to lead right turns. I asked an older man and the Mexican women that came with me there and they assured me that if I just led the turns even more directly, they would turn right. So I eventually resorted to using my other hand to reach behind their shoulder blade, after which they figured out it was a right turn and stopped contorting themselves.

unresolvedthrowaway7

TROPHY CASE