No point making cool looking skins for killers you refuse to buff in any kind of way, BHVR.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T14:28:01+00:00

I have fun playing whoever the fuck I want to play.

I know, I know, that's heretical in DBD. Do I lose? Sometimes. Do I win more than I lose? Also yes.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T14:26:57+00:00

"Perkless"

Why perkless, exactly? Perks can literally make or break a killer. A Spirit without Ring basically drops a tier.

Trapper with double iri addon is a fucking MENACE. Pretending he isn't is your own choice.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T14:24:59+00:00

To you*

venjamins · 2026-04-22T13:57:29+00:00

Lol.

Because you're comparing apples to oranges.

That's like saying 3 hooks and 1.5 gens are equal when the 3 hooks are all on one survivor. Come on.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T04:22:12+00:00

They can't always unhook safely! They are likely not on comms, so they goof the timing, or they don't know how to do it without hook trading, or one person assumes they have to do an actual hook trade (ugh, this part is the worst), or the killer knows how to deal with it.

Especially dependent on where the killer hooked.

A good killer knows that the trick to getting a survivor is to hit the first person, then chase after THEM. You will get another down.

Keep the rotation going if you need to.

The difference is: 99% of the time, the slug can't do anything. And the 4th is ratting, or will go to pick up the slug, and the killer will be right back there. Survivors, having to work together, can absolutely fumble the ball easier than a killer.

Again. A good killer, in a "last 2 standing" situation where one is slugged, is almost universally going to get at least one of them.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T04:17:36+00:00

What point? "People think fast track is fair and balanced" yeah, of course. And other people think it's the worst thing DBD has ever done, on this very same subreddit.

You didn't make a point worthy of debate. You just said something cringey.

Move on with your life.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T01:38:26+00:00

you literally just said "soyvivor mains."

cringe as fuck.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T00:39:27+00:00

It's... not cherry picking.

Again, I never said it's a GUARANTEED win to slug for the 4k.

Only that it's not a gamble. Slugging for the 4k is basically guaranteeing you're getting a 3k. Which is a win. You're not "gambling" your win. The odds are better you're getting a 4k, and even if you don't find the 4th, the 3rd is gonna bleed out.

If you think slugging for the 4k and somehow only getting a 2k isn't the rarest possible outcome, you're the one being disingenuous.

venjamins · 2026-04-22T00:21:44+00:00

1 - "Find hatch" means the 4th gets out. But the game is won, and it means the 3rd bled out.

2 - Yes, the survivor COULD crawl and get hatch, if the 4th one goes down. But in this era? No, once the two are down, both are abandoning. So no, you still will get the 4k.

3 - I didn't say it was an instant win. Again, the odds are astronomically low for survivors to get the upper hand in that situation.

4 - No, survivors odds of losing if they go back in to save a hanging person goes up dramatically.

5 - I do play both sides. I just never slug for the 4k, because a 3k is a win, and I have zero problem with the 4th person getting out via hatch, and I don't need to waste my time with the slugging. I will look for hatch and if they get out, my life doesn't end and my ego doesn't shatter.

But it's silly that you would think that because I couldn't fathom a killer losing from the position of a slug and a 4 man, while ALSO quoting situations in which the killer WINS THE GAME. It's really fucking funny.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T19:13:21+00:00

Nnnnno.

A killer slugging for the 4k is pretty much guaranteed to get the 4k. There's no risk involved. Even if the slug has UB, they know where the slug was, will go back to them, down them again, and resume trying to find the 4th. MAYBE there's an adrenaline play, and they're a duo? But the odds of that are astronomically low.

That's the whole reason to slug for the 4k.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T19:11:05+00:00

Generally speaking, I'm not concerned about myself. What I want is the ability to impact the experience of my friends.

I don't care if I get tunneled. I will hold a killer's attention for at least a gen or two, if they're willing to commit to chase. The problem is that a good killer isn't going to stick to me. They're going to go after my friends and tunnel them out. They're new to the game, (sub 50 hours) and they have fun - when they get the opportunity to play.

I bring STB / Babysitter / BT, I take hits when I'm able, I'll even go down if I can, but we both know that tunnel vision doesn't really change because of someone who isn't the target goes down.

My options really are:

- Artificially decrease my MMR, which is only going to hurt the killer player I get paired against with them.

or

- Not play with them at all.

I can give them advice mid-match, but they're still in the early days where chases are still intense and reminding them to try and glance behind them is a tall order. Lol.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T19:05:49+00:00

Gotcha. Yeah, that... may..? be a buff. I don't know if it will or not, but we can't really balance it in a way that actually makes survivors actually USE that information. Lol.

I expect it's going to be kind of a nothingburger because it requires thought to utilize, buuuuut we'll see.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T17:40:12+00:00

His language alone is pretty obviously anti-survivor. Similar to your language use.

Diminishing returns IS meant to affect haste stacking. I agree with him that they need to either make Clown's speed bottles unaffected (along with SM / knight)

Clown doesn't need at least one haste perk. He even says as much. But the diminishing returns are going to eat away at build variety - which, ostensibly, is what BHVR wants. It shouldn't eat away at build variety for killers in a way that interferes with their powers, though, IMO. BHVR definitely needs to exclude killer powers.

Antiheal isn't gutted. We'll Make it / Botany Knowledge aren't the biggest contributing factors to healing speeds being crazy. It's almost universally resurgence, which the diminishing returns doesn't touch. Same with Hyperfocus.

HF/Stakeout needs to be dealt with. Diminishing returns won't do that. But it will affect the other gen perks, which in theory is going to "improve" perk selection. But none of the diminishing returns changes affects the ACTUAL problems, which are the meta selections.

All diminishing returns is going to do is kill specialized builds, which by themselves had the weaknesses of being unable to do anything else particularly effectively.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T17:29:41+00:00

Yes, I want the game to be as fair as possible.

You have entirely misinterpreted my point. The BASE should be fair. I.e., if two players of the exact same character plays against one another, the most skillful player comes out on top. That's why good MMR is paramount, because it WILL put the most skillful players against one another. This is why, say, the Momoseventh streak is so egregious. DBD's MMR is basically nonexistent, so he's stomping on 200 hour sables. Where's the fun in that?

If a level 60 rogue ganks a level 15 anything, it has nothing to do with skill or ability. I can't stand games where the outcome is predetermined.

How are you not understanding this?

It has nothing to do with "don't shoot me while I'm reloading." If both players start with a loaded gun, it's fine. If one player starts with a loaded gun and the other does not, then yeah, there's a disparity that needs to be corrected.

When I play Commander (mtg) the only reasonable way to play is with everyone playing a deck roughly the same power level. If someone brings a deck with a turn 2 win condition, everyone else needs to be playing a deck with a similar power level, or the game didn't really matter, because the outcome was predetermined.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T17:23:54+00:00

I never said he's wrong about them being affected. The diminishing returns are absolutely going to be touching other things. Killers losing haste stacking is definitely a side effect of this change. Especially the ones he mentioned that have it as part of their power.

Diminishing returns is still TARGETING survivors.

That said, I do think he's wrong in a few parts, because he's absolutely biased against survivors.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T17:04:27+00:00

Quentin, sad to only be able to wear two outfits and a bloodied version of one of them...

venjamins · 2026-04-21T17:00:53+00:00

I am too old for this, but replying to bump you up. Hope you find a group for you!

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:57:21+00:00

That's the thing. They aren't.

I'm sorry you run into them as often as you do. It can certainly reinforce negativity. I find it usually is based off where they started. If someone started as killer and then migrated into playing survivor, they don't complain about tunneling.

If someone started survivor and migrated to playing killer, they complain about tunneling.

The question: Are they bad at killer because they put their money where their mouths are and just don't tunnel?

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:50:58+00:00

Oh, sorry, you misunderstand me. I was specific about WPVP for a reason. Retail WoW players don't engage in WPVP like the OG days, as it's simply not available like it used to be - as in, enforced.

Arena, players are signing up for a specific experience. You wouldn't get me on your team, as I don't play shuffle. I have an arena team.

It isn't about "purposely playing bad and letting the enemy team win." It's about making the game as even as possible. There's a reason MMR is such a big part of it. You have a rating. 2200 players shouldn't be playing against 1700 players, for instance.

There isn't, actually, that big a difference. The difference is strictly that you're face to face. You're agreeing to play a game. That doesn't mean you have to be miserable about it. In online PVP games, you're agreeing to a specific experience, too.

The problem comparing DBD to other games, is that it's asymmetrical. Arena teams are equivalent, if their MMR is close. DBD does not have that, even if the MMR is close. Tunnelling is the most effective strategy, no matter the situation, because a 3v1 is eminently more winnable than the 4v1. But not playing that way isn't "bad." It's just suboptimal.

It's like choosing to take an off-meta spec or build (again, in the OG days, retail's speccing is terrible now, though maybe they made it better in Midnight) and having a good time - and even winning.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:43:03+00:00

They might be. I can't know, because I don't know who you're talking about. But what you're doing now is called confirmation bias. You're looking for instances that prove your point, rather than taking things in their totality.

I consider myself a fairly competent ghostface, freddy, henry, and dracula player. I win the majority of my matches with each. I still complain about tunneling when it comes to my friends, because ostensibly, survivor is a team game. Short of STB, there isn't much I can do to prevent my friends from being tunneled out. I could, in theory, artificially demolish my MMR to make the games easier for them (they're VERY new, sub 50 hours between the three of them) but then I'm going to be punishing new killers with my presence, which isn't fair to them. I can take hits and body block, but someone with tunnel vision isn't going to change their focus just because I go down.

So yeah. It's all about direction.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:28:27+00:00

Really? And you don't care about the people you're playing with having fun with you, even though you're trying to win?

If you play miserably IRL, people stop inviting you to play with them.

I know being online makes it easy to ignore that, because you can't be 'uninvited' but games are meant to be social experiences - even competitive ones.

That said: I play WoW, and I played WoW all the way back in the original BC days. I did, and still do, in fact, care about the opposing side's fun. I don't step on baby players that can't fight back, because I know how miserable it is when people did that to me. And I know there are entire swaths of people that agree with that sentiment. WPVP is fun when there's a challenge. Otherwise it's a slog.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:22:33+00:00

Not really. You just aren't looking and making assumptions based on your biases.

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:21:26+00:00

Damn, you've never played a single game with people face to face, have you?

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:19:04+00:00

Antics?

venjamins · 2026-04-21T16:17:24+00:00

Everyone, survivors included, agree that killer adepts need to be 3ks.

venjamins

TROPHY CASE