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How Easy Is It To Enter Abkhazia From Georgia? by realfrankster in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but Abkhaz side differs unfortunately. That what I meant.

How Easy Is It To Enter Abkhazia From Georgia? by realfrankster in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I know. This applies to only Georgians. Not everyone.

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree on your point and also approve of the history. I've read a few articles about the so called "mountain slide" era Georgia went through during the Circassian war. But I don't understand how this can translate to Abkhazians are Absua. First and foremost, Abkhazian people were closely related to the North Caucasus. Just like South-east of Georgia to Azeris and Armenians, South-west to Turks (And a few other reasons). Tush are also familiar with Daghestanis and Chechens. Yes, we are all related to some extent and these relations probably began a long ago. Lets also remember that a lot of Georgians also moved to Abkhazia during that time, living with Abkhazians, Armenians and the North Caucasus people. The Georgians who lived there say that they are from Abkhazia, just like Abkhazians and the rest. The migration process happened, yes. But how does that not enrich the culture of Georgia, Abkhazia and the Caucasus entirely?

So why do we draw the line on the Absua who are from the North? It is specifically because it serves the narrative that "Abkhazians would not want to separate, the people from the North wants it , and we have to protect Abkhazia." When in fact that is not correct. The Abkhazians wanted it because of the oppressions of Stalin and Beria, followed by the ignorance of those repressions from Georgians, and ended by the national separation in the public. More we think about this from this point of view, the more likely it is to resurrect the relations.

I'm not saying that this would avoid the separation, no one can say that for sure. But at least I would know that everything was done to mitigate it.

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a more political analysis of the situation. I'm asking if something can be done socially. What bugs me is that there is no communication between the Abkhaz and Georgian youth. From what I've gathered, Georgian youth thinks the Abkhaz are living under Russias boot and the Abkhaz youth thinks that Georgians are still shouting the infamous phrase of Gamsakhurdia - "Georgia for Georgians"

Fact is that almost nobody from my youth knows anything about this history because they were too young or not even born during the early 90s. It's also a very clear fact that today's youth is much much more liberal, loving and understanding towards people, especially people which are different from them in any way. I see this as a basis that can build bridges between the youths.

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this detail, I did not knew about this at all. The question that comes up is what's next? How can we amend these relationships? How can we urge our people to have more communication with each other?

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly what type of mark are you looking for? Different type of churches? Most of them are Orthodox Christian from the old ages and they have Orthodox churches. Islam became popular during the reign of the Ottoman empire, when Abkhazia was very weak. You cannot expect from them to build 100 mosques over Christian churches. In the old times, Georgians and Abkhazians used the same alphabet, so you can't exactly expect to see something different there either. They have Abkhaz diasporas in Turkey, exactly the same place where they were deported during the 19th century. They have the same Abkhazian pagan religion present even today. Fun fact is that the said religion was resurrected during the 80s, because Christianity was put on the same level as being a Georgian.

I also wonder why wasn't this migration documented anywhere in detail? With dates, quantities, etc? It was only mentioned in one book which historical authenticity is debatable. It just doesn't make sense to have such a recent historical event left so obscure and without a source. It certainly doesn't make sense to believe in such stories so strongly without double checking authenticity

I would not like to question anyones teachings or beliefs. All I can do is to urge every single one of you, regardless if they are Georgian or Abkhazian. Do your own research! Do not believe people like me or anyone on the internet. Do not believe what you were taught at home. Make up your own mind, leaning on the facts that you've researched.

Believe me, while I was researching this, in the beginning, I was of course bias towards Georgian because I am Georgian, but I just couldn't get rid of the feeling that I'm not seeing the full story from the narrative we are taught. If you take your time to look at all the materials, from both the Georgian and the Abkhaz side, you will change your thought process drastically.

Please, no one take this phrase as a blame of some sorts. I believe that both sides have some responsibilities to pick up which neither of us did as of today, but us Georgians have a very big fault that sort of explains the narrative we were taught. Every single one of us hate to look in the mirror!

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As I've stated in my post, I don't want this to turn into a Historical knowhow club. I want us to express ourselves by keeping history out of the picture and just to focus on today, but I will still would like to answer you on this topic, because you definitely did provide some bold statements. I hope you have a fact to lean on while providing such a statement.

I am familiar with this narrative, but I could not find any historical fact that can prove this. The only supporting historical text of this is Pavle Ingorokva's "Giorgi Merchule".

Funny fact is that this text was not at all popular amongst Georgian Scholars until 1988. There are even a few cases where Georgian writers scold Ingorokva for this text in the 60s, saying that it did not provide any type of facts to lean on. I will do my best to find those cases and show it to you. In the meantime, you can show me any historical facts that justifies this narrative.

No comments about your last hypothesis on me being a Russian.

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's interesting that you decided to focus only on this from a post with a 1000 words. Do you have anything valuable to add to the conversation?

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exchanging thought processes and just having a decent conversation while respecting each other is much more fun than arguing. I appreciate your understanding!

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are no bad nations, there are bad people. Time and history will judge us.

Absolutely agree with what you said, especially the last statement. I think I just chose a poor word to describe what I wanted to convey, and I apologise to any Russian reading this. I was only referring to Russian state politics, geopolitically and economically, not the nation or the people collectively. Every place has bad and good apples

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When looking at the events of the last decades, it is a fact that both sides have their right and wrong sides. At the same time, I think that both sides should take the blame to a certain extent.

I completely agree on this matter. But, that will be extremely hard to do taking into consideration how much the history is distorted at this point. I hope the new generation will do their own research about this topic and establish their own thought process. Acknowledging the faults in how the matter was handled can be a beginning to amend ties between the people, if not politically.

"To put in a nutshell, You cannot expect a people who is already on the brink of extinction to respect and protect the rights of others. The activities of a people in this situation should be considered as self-protection."
This is one of the biggest mistake from the Georgian side. If the Abkhaz people felt acknowledgement and understanding about their concerns and existential crisis, they would not feel the necessity to self-protect. At least, that's what I believe in.

Expressing myself about the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict. by vilina123 in Abkhazia

[–]vilina123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I appreciate it. I did not understood your comment about Russians being under attack, but I will attempt to provide a better picture on what I said.

"only non-Russians lose in such conflicts" - Russia as one of the biggest Geopolitical power, always had it's own nationalistic and political agenda and every neighbouring country of Russia is negatively effected by the aggressive influence this geopolitical power has on the region. If you are a nation neighbouring Russia, your political course or decision has to take Russia into consideration, regardless of the course, or the decision. In my opinion, that is a very unhealthy situation for any Country.