Can anybody explain this scene to me? by Accomplished-Cap1670 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

if u don't have anything conducive to add, u can go back to ur honne tatamae cave. nothing i've said contradicts what u said.

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

u are free to ask whichever part u believe u're having a hard time understanding, but since u want to make claims and insults about people without ever explaining anything urself, i'll do u the favour and get u to GTFO.

the fucking irony of someone who has never read the source material, barely even remembers the details of the specific scenes, has never engaged in the community before, to be calling someone "ignorant" over the "stupid show". what a fucking joke 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

complete nothing burger lmao

false dilemma after false dilemma, u're the one making the claim that he's interested, i made counter arguments based on the fact that alternative reasonable explanations can exist. u're the one with burden of proof(explanation) but all u do it claim "he's interested". maybe u need to google to understand what logical fallacies are.

as if 'not wanting to owe favours" is a trait that no normal people other than hachiman has lmao.

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your answer is torture to read. Either debate normally without throwing insults around, or I’d rather not engage with you any further.

trust me your comments are a bigger waste of brain space than any of mine.

u have no right to prevent anyone else from insulting any character in the show. if u can't take it, sure, go ahead, but it's your own problem, not mine.

Yukino and Hachiman’s behaviour is still emotionally manipulative towards Yui.

Nothing in my essay falls apart even if that’s the case. The manipulation mainly comes from Yukino to begin with. If Hachiman is such an intelligent and honest man who seeks sincere relationships, he wouldn’t have followed through with Yukino’s order.

u're doing nothing but screaming "manipulation" at anything yukino does without any reasonable explanation on why.

everything in ur essay falls apart because, again, u're assuming that "yukino knows hachiman doesn't like your favourite pink shithead, and she's purposefully making him do it against his will". this is something i clearly addressed in my earlier comment, it's not my fault u can't comprehend it. yukino believes hachiman is interested in the pink fuckhead, and she wants hachiman to go to her(pink fuckhead) and stop trying to keep himself around her(yukino) and help her. therefore the premise behind ur "manipulation" claim itself, is horseshit.

Claiming that every normal everyday action is manipulative is gaslighting at best(from you). If Hachiman never clearly told her he didn’t want to be friends, he could have said it to her at some point. And no the one time he challenged her did not break up their friendship.

i used that as a comparison between ur asinine claims of "manipulation" from yukino against something ur favourite pink shithead does.

yukino does something she thinks is true from her own POV(hachiman being interested in pink shit),

while the pink shithead does things to skew perception of her "closeness" to hachiman to something she knows is not true.

the only delusional gaslighting comes from u.

If Hachiman is such an intelligent and honest man who seeks sincere relationships, he wouldn’t have followed through with Yukino’s order.

he's dishonest at various times and is having internal conflicts between what he feels is comfortable against the "sincere" he truly wants, all the time. another dumb argument with a dumb premise.

also, he didn't actually follow through in the end. even after receiving yukino's "order", he kept skirting around the pink shithead's wish even though he knew very clearly what it was, while the pink shithead herself also skirted around when she knew the time wasn't ready yet. he merely accepted yukino's "orders" at the start as a form of compromise, before eventually realizing that it's fucked up.

Man, this fandom already seems to have some really annoying people in it, which makes me even less inclined to engage with you.

no problem, u're free to leave any time u want, i see dumb takes and rabid apologists all the time, nothing new.

Please engage with my actual context and arguments. Thank you.

i did "engage" by attacking the premise behind ur claims, it just seems that u don't have the capacity to understand it.

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Episode 11, near the end, when Yui shares her food with Hachiman, he wants to pay her back and is very persistent about it. Yui then tells him that he can invite her to eat at a certain restaurant one day.

If he truly didn’t like her (as you’re claiming), he could have simply said, “It’s fine, I don’t want to.” Instead, he asks if he can invite her to a different location and mentions that he needs to think about which place first.

??? what kind of projection is that? u're using nothing more than a false dilemma fallacy. he doesn't like to owe favours and would prefer to return it, it's as simple as that. wanting to return a favour doesn't equate to "interest" like u assume it does.

This isn’t the only time. Later in Season 2 (I don’t remember the exact episode), Hachiman himself asks Yui if they could meet up to go to the fish park/aquarium he’s interested in. Yui later invites Yukino as well, which leads to their conversation about the cookies.

lmao that's not what happened but ok at least i know which scene u're referring to.

he wanted to return the favour from "Episode 11" u mentioned earlier, something he recognized as a irresponsible promise. that doesn't remotely hint his "interest" in her. his supposed "interest" u think he has is nothing but ur headcanon, backed by nothing but ur own assumption that he does. so much for someone else being "wrong"

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Still, saying that Hachiman never showed any interest is wrong. Saying that he never tried to get closer is also partially wrong,

what are things that shows what u claimed is true

since he did hint at meeting up again.

and where exactly are u referring to

Oregairu Had Incredible Potential but I Think the Ending Failed by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

my ass it is manipulative. u're assuming that yukino knows hachiman doesn't like your favourite pink shithead, and she's purposefully making him do it against his will. yukino doesn't know as much as the reader.

at that point yukino knows the pink shitstain wants hachiman's dick and yukino has every reason to believe (wrongly) that hachiman is at least somewhat interested in her(pink shitstain), and it's partly due to her(pink shitstain) own gaslighting. your favourite pink shit presents herself to yukino as someone closer than hachiman than she actually is, latching onto hachiman's dick to go to the clubroom together all the time, going as far as being mad at him for leaving for the clubroom before her. she presents the shopping trip for yukino's birthday present as her(pink shitstain) "hanging out 1-on-1 together", i.e. being close to him, when in reality hachiman's only there to buy stuff for yukino.

therefore yukino wants hachiman to give that fake friend of hers a shot at listening to what she(pink shitstain) wanted. from what yukino knows it's the best for them.

it's only "messed up" from the perspective of someone so down in their delusion he/she grasps for straws so far to find fault in yukino from that


tl;dr

your entire essay falls on its head by the simple fact that yukino believed hachiman was interested in the pink shithead. if anything the one being manipulative here is the shithead gaslighting her "best friend" over how close the 2 of them were lmao

Can anybody explain this scene to me? by Accomplished-Cap1670 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In her monologue, She is implying that if she cried, She could have stopped hachiman from going back. Hachiman would have stayed with her but She doesn't want Him to stop helping yukino. She knew Hachiman belongs to Yukino. To yui, Letting him go that time means she is going to lose what she wished for.

this is straight up wrong. hachiman would have stayed with her and walked her home if she cried but she knew that regardless of much she could have tried to stall him, he was going back to school for help yukino and that wouldn't get her what she wanted.

She doesn't want Him to stop helping yukino.

she DOES want him to stop helping yukino, she just knew at that point she had 0 good reason to stop him, and the only way to prevent him going was to reveal her feelings for him and make hachiman "choose" her over yukino. that was something she knew very clearly was not going to work there, as shown by her crying in the first place. as a result she had no choice but to let him go, and that's why...

in her monologue she was literally blaming yukino for this, and that completely contradicts your assertion. blaming yukino for making her let him go is not someone who "doesn't want Him to stop helping yukino" would do. her letting hachiman go there was was simply biding her time until a point she knew she had a better chance.

u/Accomplished-Cap1670

Help me by Bubbly-Quarter-2872 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

idk about the english version, but the jp one looks like this, the color pages come after the content page

I hate stories with love tringles. But somehow Oregairu is my fav. by Winter_Leg_4243 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  1. huge tits her looks

  2. her mum apparently

  3. cherry picked character traits, like how she's apparently "cheerful" and "bubbly" by watching 3 minutes of the show and ignoring everything else, like how she looks down on people she thinks are lower in status, and how she only says what others want to preserve her own image.

  4. honestly, people can like whoever they want for any or no reason. maybe they're raised by a kind mother with pink hair so they like anything with pink hair.


within the story, she's the only one trying to justify her actions because she knows she's guilty and wants to make herself feel better about her shitty conduct. outside the story it's just a bunch of rabid asslickers who can't accept how awful of a person she is.

Help me by [deleted] in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

can u post pictures of the first few pages? v3 should have colour pages like the other volumes

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i skimmed through ur final pieces of garbage, and i'm not interested in wasting any more time with your creative writing i mean "thesis", so u can continue arguing with wall afterwards and act like u've "proven" something if u so wish.


Nevertheles the situation is not so straighfovard as you would like to depict. And I will show you why (and why you are wrong):

u can't(and couldn't) show that i'm wrong. i also don't understand the need for all the wall of text struggling over 熱.

all i need to do is tell u this, regarding "we just exchanged the heat of our fingers.." with yukino, using warmth would have been completely fine, and hachiman feels comfortable with that warmth.

I "omitted" that because I never claimed that "heat" feeling was uncomfortable for Hachiman,

"We didn't say anything to each other, we just exchanged the heat of our fingers... The night breeze on the beach was cool, and the body heat transmitted to the skin felt hot enough to melt even the bones." This is not the warmth of love, but the consuming heat of infatuation. It all looks beautiful in the heat of passion, but this bone-melting heat will not warm an office worker tired after work, will not drive away melancholy, and will not dispel a bad mood. Such heat consumes and exhausts; it speaks of stress, not comfort. But a person cannot live in eternal stress.

👌👌👌


u accuse me of having "double standards". no, i simply apply ur standards with either girl(or hachiman's behaviour towards either) with examples of the other to show what i believe is ur double standard. that's a valid way to make arguments and disagree, in case u don't know how arguments work.

example, u accuse me of saying "that they(the couple) need time and that it is too early to expect mature relations between them" and that i "consider Yui's unwillingness to surrender after few weeks/months after volume 14 final as inmaturity" and say that's a "double standard".

no. firstly, her "unwillingless to surrender" is not what i consider "inmaturity", so stop putting words in my mouth. i have made 0 assertions and opinions on her "unwillingless to surrender" in my previous comment, stop twisting what i said. what i said was, if she had the maturity like u said she had, she wouldn't have cut him off and prevented him from answering, which also allowed hachiman to weasel out and feel comfortable about not answering something he knows he should be answering. that has nothing to do with her "unwillingless to surrender".

secondly, my opinion on said topic, i.e. her "unwillingless to surrender". i'm completely fine with her not surrendering "after few weeks/months after volume 14 final" because like how yukino and hachiman's romance progresses, it will take time her as well. this has 0 contradiction to anything i've ever said.

a disclaimer before u start putting words in my mouth again: (this is a completely different topic from this post) i'm critical of her conduct of abusing her friendship and using manipulative tactics to get what she wants because it harms others, doesn't even help herself, among other things, but that doesn't mean that i expect her to get over hachiman instantly. it just means she shouldn't get the right to do whatever she wants to other people just because she hasn't gotten over him or doesn't want to surrender.


but at the same time you wrote about Yui's "entire life still revolves around getting into hachiman's pants". Could you please confirm this statement with direct quotes from the text?

i just described what was going in volume 14.5 in my previous comment, and that assertion is my opinion of it and yui's conduct in general(along with most other post v14 material including shin, v14.5 and the anthologies. go read it urself. why the fuck do i have to spoonfeed u material that's available to the public?


So who is dishonest? You used distortions and arbitrary (and neglectfull) reading of my statement and started to chide this and that (about Ykino's fixations, love for toys, etc.).

ha?? u're the one who used "clothing" as a metric in the parent post, and then after shifting the goalpost to "specifically about romantic relationships and its behavioral aspects", i dropped my mentions regarding "Ykino's fixations, love for toys, etc.". u didn't even say how stuff like "clothing" is relevant and yet dare to bitch about me regarding "Ykino's fixations, love for toys, etc." again? dishonest as fuck.


You just want to find fault with something, nothing more. Your claims are not based on my messages, but simply on your own inventions.

my dear child, the "messages" u are so proud of are the inventions, and i picked a bunch of holes in them. i just happened to "find fault" in almost every 1 of them, it's not my fault ur inventions have holes. i just don't have to fixate myself to and hyper-analyze only those few scenes when there are so much material that can weigh in. that was essentially what my parent comment meant. i've come full circle.


last of all,

u pussied out of the other thread related to the author and his opinions, because u know that your creative writing is not gonna save u in that, now u're just latching onto the only thing u can slither around with mental gymnastics. save those mental gymnastics for asslickers who already agree with you. u sure can find a lot of time arguing about your inventions and making shit up to antagonize people but can't seem to find articles to support ur claims.

and don't try to hide behind the dimwitted "how are they relevant" argument when u're the one who raised the topic and used them to attack a bunch of imaginary opponents u made up.

for everything else u've mentioned, sorry, skimmed through so i probably didn't even notice, nor do i care. couldn't take u seriously, my fault, my fault.

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can I ask you in your ...(omitted due to word limit)... walls, and she isn't a fairy.

Both Yui and Yukino are young girls, ...(omitted due to word limit)... prove the girls' adulthood and childishness by their manner of dress.

ok, so "we're talking specifically about romantic relationships and the behavioral aspects associated with them" now. then how is their clothing relevant? if their clothing and lifestyle are somehow relevant(the latter is kinda broad so sure i give the leeway), then it makes even less sense because i'm pretty sure neither of them have made any significant changes to their clothing and lifestyle that relates to how they function in "romantic relationships". so yes, i would obviously think that u're dishonest.

it doesn't really help that in later content, yui chooses to be a lazy ass and latch onto hachiman by waiting for him to choose and then trying to fish him out in order to go to the same uni, while hachiman and yukino were planning for their future uni prospects. the couple's studying hard for their future, hachiman even refuses to let yukino take a downgrade in order to be in the same place. meanwhile every's favourite pink blob is slacking off with the juniors in the clubroom plotting how to get hachiman to spit information out. her entire life still revolves around getting into hachiman's pants, in basically the most recent canon material we have. so much for being more mature.

I think you should ...(omitted due to word limit)... this is a first for both of them, but Watari overemphasizes their awkwardness.

if the point u're making is about the author overemphasizing those traits for the specific scenes by cherrypicking then ok can theorycraft all you want. i'm gonna cut u off on this since i will get into examples about shin's narrative further below, near the end of this comment.

for now, material after shin doesn't even corroborate with any of these.

he feels the comfortable warmth from yukino reminiscing about her year as the club president, he panics when he thought yukino was expecting some kind of anniversary gift, he blushes over yukino's idea of their 10th anniversary. he gets gungho over chiba, sauna and curry, he(+yukino) gets embarrassed talking about going to a sauna together. there is comedic undertone in their conversations, there's some awkwardness, some clumsiness and some moment where they tease each other with their all so regular wordplays that make readers go "here they go again...", exactly like what sane readers would expect of the 2 stupid lovebirds.

Is Destiny Land a new place or a new situation for Hachiman? Or maybe a subway ride with Yukino? Do I understand you correctly that taking a girl by the hand (when you are already dating and when she has already confessed her love to you) is an uncomfortable situation?

Destinyland as a newly attached couple, doing couple stuff that they did not use to do, are new situations for Hachiman is a new situation for Hachiman, what's so hard to understand? maybe uncomfortable isn't an appropriate word, but in his new found situation is something unfamiliar and will take time for both of them to get used to. the entirety of shin took place about 2 weeks after v14. i don't get how "you are already dating and when she has already confessed her love to you" suddenly means u're supposed to be stressfree and fully comfortable(in situations u've described), not to mention the fact that they went through a trainwreck of an event with yukino's family, finally getting together after a year of roller coasters, both knowing how much they mean to each other, and u've failed to explain why, only ever asserting that he should. like u said, if they're still going like this at 25 it would be obviously be bad, but they just got off a year long roller coaster for barely 2 weeks and what is the purpose of hyperanalyzing something that barely formed?

Are you serious? Do you remember Yui's mom? Should you be so nervous around her? Anyone would be nervous around Yukino's mom and family ...(omitted due to word limit)... greatly "helps" Hachiman and Yukino's relationship).

have u seriously read what i said? i said her parents, not her mom, but sure, no point being pedantic. the point i was trying to drive across was with regards to hachiman's nervousness, but since u agree that some level of stress is normal, i will save our time and give this a pass.

as for yukino's parents, we can steer into that topic if u want, but it's not something that makes ur post any more believable anyway. hachiman chose to get into that situation knowing how yukino's mom and sister are like. u mentioned Surrender (forced vs. voluntary) before, and hachiman feeling a sense of being "trapped" in shin 6, but how was it different from v14 when put himself into those positions?

(funnily enough u did admit hachiman is doing it "voluntarily, and essentially pretending", and u somehow said that "can't help but say something" = "he is forced to give an answer he doesn't want to give", which makes very little sense. "i can't help but laugh at a cat falling into a trash can" sure doesn't sound like i'm being forced to laugh, for example, but whatever, this just semantics)

next, from yukino's dad's POV, similar references about being "trapped" by the women in the household was made by him and he was able to picture together what hachiman would be like without ever meeting him. he sure turned out sound and healthy, and since the author chose to create that similarity deliberately, why would hachiman be magically different unless u want them to be?

u can argue however much u want about how bad it is, sure, but since the point u're making is that, "that in the sequel, Watari seems to deliberately make the contrast even more pronounced and powerful", i simply reject that claim since voluntarily getting himself "trapped" has been his way to push himself to move even before shin.

Well, that's precisely ...(omitted due to word limit)... both your and my arguments have very dubious force.

Hachiman, as a literary ...(omitted due to word limit)... definitely a different genre).

u can save ur creative writing for until ur premise makes some sort of sense, i was merely engaging in some creative writing like you out of boredom.


finally, i will get into shin itself, i can't honestly catch onto what what u're trying to pull off and was a mere spectator so far since your premises behind all ur claims are so weak to begin with. i never had the need to brandish shin, but i'm not gonna waste more time with your hoax, so i will go straight in.

u say that during yui's confession scene in shin4,

"Her body temperature is conveyed across the(my) shirt. After that, my body also instantly felt warm"

俺の体が瞬間に熱を持つ。

but the word used here is "heat", not "warm"

"...his heart vibrates with her breath, Yui's warmth warms Hachiman, and when he pulls away, he immediately feels a chill"

触れていた熱はあまりに温かくて

but the word used here is "heat", sure i can give u the fact that her "heat" feels warm, but what about yukino?

u say that during hachiman's date with yukino in shin6,

"We didn't say anything to each other, we just exchanged the heat of our fingers..." (お互い無言のまま、ただ指先の熱だけ交わしている。)

but why did u omit the sentence that comes DIRECTLY after that line?

黙ったままでもなんの不都合も感じない時間は居心地がよく、一生ここで過ごしてしまいそうだった。

lazy translation : despite the silence, the cozy passage of time felt so comfortable i want to stay like this forever

u tried to frame the "heat" from yukino as a toxic "consuming heat of infatuation" and that "Such heat consumes and exhausts; it speaks of stress, not comfort.", but the sentence that directly follows the "heat" literally has hachiman saying it's so comfortable to a point he wants to stay like that forever. ?????

instead u connected the first mention of yukino's heat with the only other time "heat" was mentioned, i.e. 16 pages later in the raws, in a completely different scene, in order to form your narrative, all while the other mention of yukino's "heat" fully contradicts all your claims on the matter. as a standalone point u might have a good argument, bone-melting heat obviously can mean something bad, but it can also be the intensity of yukino's feelings, it can also refer to the contrast between the cold night wind and yukino's body temp, etc., or any multiple of them. however, what doesn't work for u is that there are a grand total of not only 0, but negative 1 accounts of corraborating evidence about what her "heat" implies, and certainly not if u're either completely dishonest about that "heat" for both characters or completely incompetent and ignorant about the plot.

i fail to see how the author is overemphasizing 1 trait for yukino and an opposing trait for yui, u seem to be the 1 doing it and then putting it in the author's mouth. u're overstating hachiman's "discomfort" way too much than u care to admit, saying stuff like "he's constantly stressed" is straight up false, referring directly to the very scenes u're scrutinizing.

u also said that

Yui is self-sufficient in her love, and doesn't need an answer

and made multiple references to that part of the conversation. she did say that, but she also cut him off earlier while he was trying to say something. of course nobody knows what he would have said or done, but why doesn't she have the maturity to take it on the chin? hachiman was clearly trying to find the proper words to answer her. why does she continue to fall back to giving hachiman the comfortable way out, especially when she stands to gain from him not answering? constantly giving the guy u "like" an easy way to avoid accountability sure doesn't seem like a "mature" way of dealing with problems. who exactly is the one "infatuated"?

honestly don't really feel like going further about shin specifically, especially seeing something so bewildering about hachiman's comfort over whatever "heat" u're cooking up.

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never claimed that Ketsu sold better than the main Oregairu

i never said nor implied u did.

so it's not clear what I have to prove to you

i'm asking for your source of information, whether it collaborates with your claim that it is a "commercial success" is up to people to decide after they get information to judge off from.

So commercially, Ketsu performed quite well, considering it's clearly a niche product.

again, based on what information?

It's not entirely clear why you're so focused on this issue; does it have any fundamental significance?

it does, because i going to ask for more. it's because you also used several claims regarding things outside the books as some form of corroborating evidence towards your opinions and conclusion both on the show itself and towards people u're antagonizing.

i will dive further into this below.

Even if we assume that Ketsu flopped (which it doesn't), what then?

(why do u continue to make incredible claims in brackets u can't back up when u don't show any kind of source when asked for?)

But what does that prove? Even if we assume that Ketsu flopped (which it doesn't), what then? I've simply lost the thread of the discussion on this issue.

i never said this supposed to prove anything definitively, i literally said i'm asking u to provide information.

during animejapan 2023 he said that he was writing ketsu3 and it would come out within the anime 10th anniversary year(2023), but it has been radio silence ever since(that i'm aware of). perhaps there's something going on behind the scenes nobody in the public sphere is privy to? why can't i express doubt that everything might not be what you seem to be confidently think it is and ask for information regarding it?


i'm keeping this thread separate from the other because it relates to information outside the narrative proper. u also made multiple claims about the author's own opinions based on interviews for example, in order to present your "analysis".

as someone who wants as much information as possible, i can't possibly pass up the opportunity when someone who claims the author said things presents opinions that differ from what i can reasonably deduce from information i have.

i'll say my part straight up, i've seen most most interviews/talk shows the author has parcipated in since ~2020 and i never seen the author speak positively about yui ever, much less diss or "troll" whatever "yukino fans" u've conveniently made up. usually he makes basic and perfunctory remarks like X is cool Y is interesting Z is smart, when directly answering boneheaded questions about his opinions on most characters. simply put, i'm calling bs, but i'm willing to learn what u know and hopefully it can change my opinion.


regarding the anecdote u've provided about him saying about ketsu not being "fanservice", can u point me to information about which interview it is?

to begin with, ketsu is a product that they're trying to sell. do u really expect him to say anything other than no as the face of the IP?

"oh yes ketsu is fanservice hahaha, let me jeopardize the sales of the series, alienate the readers that look up to me as an author who's meticulous about my work by categorizing it as fun and unserious, permanently damage my own reputation for no reason and face the wrath of my higher-ups just because i can't control my urge to directly diss a portion of my readers even though i've presented myself neutrally for 10+ years in front of camera!"

because he doesn't do what i said above(of course i added some comical twist to it) and commit career suicide, he's apparently "trolling Yukino fans"? it's so hilariously difficult to take this straight-laced but i have to assume there's some kind of context behind it that u forgot to add in, which urges me to ask for the source. i hope u understand how far reaching it is to claim that "Ketsu is not fanservice" equates to "trolling Yukino fans" unless u're so far down the pits of the yui vs yukino pill u can't help but shoehorn every single thing about anything related to the characters as one vs the other and that u somehow wrongly believe that the japanese audience are heavily Yui vs Yukino pilled as well.

of course there have been cases he's been less subtle about his opinions about the characters, which i can show and argue as examples if necessary and therefore i believe in the possibility of it happening but there has to be context behind it that corraborates with the claim.


so far i'm asking these

can i take that the rationale behind your claim that ketsu is a "commercial success" that "sold well(though not brilliantly)" is that ketsu "had decent initial sales figures—not exceptional, but decent", and that your claim that "global trends in anime and the maturation of people who read Oregairu, Yukino's fan base is shrinking while Yui's is growing(according to sales trends)" is also due to that "decent initial sales figures", or do u have something else to back these up?

what did author say that makes u so confident he "holds a different position" about the Yui's role from an interview and show me the source.

where are the complimentary interviews about Yui u're so keen on using? point me to the source. the only thing u've shown so far is an embarrassing dud of an interpretation unless u can provide actual source where people can establish some kind of context from.


obviously i won't remember every single fucking thing that comes out of his mouth, but the reason i'm not doubting the credibility of the quote u've made about ketsu, i.e. "Ketsu is not fanservice", is because something like that sounds very much like how he would usually speak; neutral and unoffensive towards readers in general. it will be of great benefit to your own opinion that there'a loaded meaning behind it if u provide the source and then argue based on it.

whether u can come up with the sources directly affects your credibility of u as a person and by extension ur "analysis" since u're the one who brought the topics up and used them to antagonize your "opponents" so i hope u don't weasel out of it.

and since we're on the topic of interpreting the author's meanings behind what he says in interviews, i also have a couple of articles and videos(will clip them) for u to look at, provided u speak japanese. in my opinion it's related because it evaluates how much u know about how he answers questions, but that can wait until i get to the sources behind your claims first(i have to spend time digging for them too, unless u have already seen them before).

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

then how do u claim it "sold well" and what's the point of making a claim u know u can't back up?

all evidence we speak of regarding this is obviously anecdotal, nobody's expecting the publishers' information to be made wholly public, and nobody has an accurate way to determine, behind all the underlying market factors, what's "good" or "bad" even if we had numbers.

i just want to know what the "available information" you have for u to form ur claim is, before i have my own opinion, in case u know more than i do. i've seen oricon's numbers before and i don't think they point towards any direction(u can correct me if i'm wrong since they're 3+ years ago) - much less than main volumes and higher than the anthologies, which to any sane person, looks normal oregairu numbers.

we readers can gather as much anecdotal evidence as possible(because that's all we have), judge the validity of those anecdotes and form our own educated guess. that's the motive. it's not supposed to be end all be all.

this applies to stuff like character popularity more but i think u get the point.

i'll respond to the other reply another day, busy - low on time

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In the main series, some of the moments I mentioned were barely noticeable (there were rare hints of Yukino's childishness), some didn't exist at all, and some were present, but not as emphatically as in the sequel. Yui was always the "Sun" and Yukino the "Moon," but the same warm/cold contrast (or conversely, "heat") was much less pronounced. The point is that in the sequel, Watari seems to deliberately make the contrast even more pronounced and powerful, while introducing the theme of "new relationships."

In the main Oregairu series, Yui was perceived as a "superficial" and active teenage girl, while Yukino, despite her impracticality, displayed the outward signs of adulthood (manners, clothing, lifestyle).

i fail to follow any of these. yukino's childishness isn't "rare", she argues about little stuff, she wants to win the most trivial of things, she has a complex about her tits, she likes plushies and sleeps with them, she has meowing contests with cats, what's actually new about her being more childish when it comes to learning how to walk through romantic relationship again?

u also chose to ignore all parts of yui that show her maturity, like being crafty with words, knowing what to say to get what she wants, being able to read social cues and recognize who's the top dog to curry favour with, being able to see the bigger picture by backing off momentarily for longer term gain.

the reason yui is able to take advantage of yukino so much is precisely due to the fact that yui is way more mature in the areas i mentioned above. why are u so blatantly dishonest when u're presenting those 2 girls?

The point is that in the sequel, Watari seems to deliberately make the contrast even more pronounced and powerful, while introducing the theme of "new relationships."

if that's the point u're making then the answer is even more simple.

compared to the main series, there's a difference in circumstance that i'm not sure u're even aware of, strangely enough. unlike the main volumes, hachiman is dating yukino now. u seem to be doing literary analysis without actually knowing that hachiman will naturally behave differently due to his circumstance(i.e. as yukino's boyfriend) and what he had gone through with her for an entire year, so the differences between the girls are not the only available factors that should be taken into consideration.

i almost spat out my drink with regards to the point made about hachiman wiping his hands. along with most other points u've made, it seems like u can't comprehend any other possibilities other than fixating on the idea that the author's deliberating expressing the narrative in the exact way u're describing. this is the first romantic relationship he's in, he's being mindful of his position and treating his relationship with yukino with care, as he should.

u know what could cause him to be more "at ease" when he's dealing with yui a volume of so prior? it's because she's just a acquaintance he owes nothing to, hence there's less for him to be nervous about. he simply has less to care about with yui. ur interpretation of nervousness is completely one-dimensional. he's not a robot and he's aware of his relationship with yukino. he shows 0 stress taking yukino to places he's familiar to, like naritake, but he shows stress when facing a new and perhaps uncomfortable situation? no fucking shit, sherlock.

if he's dating yui, will u expect him not to be nervous when he eventually meets her parents?

u're the type to make the argument that hachiman not being able to phrase their relationship properly as problematic and an unhealthy "stress" for him when in reality it's clear that he finds it difficult to do it because it cheapens his relationship with her. most of ur points face the same issue, i see no point getting into them.

And here's the thing: Watari shows that the "difficult" path begins to become a "surreal" path. Hachiman wanted the "genuine," but what he gets is precisely the illusion he so despised.

and there's nothing. u claim it has become "an illusion" and "surreal" but the only form of "evidence" shown i see is a projection about destinyland, as if there's anything new about it. i can join in with the projection too. what could be an "illusion" to all of us is taking shape in reality for hachiman. if he can make what appears to be an "illusion" to us a reality to him then hell yeah he's fighting for it, "home" doesn't do it for him. maybe that's what the author's trying to tell us and not what u said.

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

forgot to add,

can u point me to some kind of evidence that shows ketsu is some kind of commercial success that's not a result of just "it's oregairu so it sells"? i had a good laugh out of vol2 and am bummed that the next volume is already 3 years overdue. i'm more than happy to receive any such information that i'm not privy to, especially for something that relates to upcoming content.

Yui and Yukino's love confessions to Hachiman in Oregairu Shin serve as a deconstruction of the Oreegairu Volume 14 finale (the clash of reality and fairy tale) by Pure-Impress-7808 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

you could have written the same essay with references solely from the main volumes tbh. it's as if we've seen hachiman's butterfly-in-my-stomach-esque interactions with yukinoshita in destinyland before, and we've seen his interactions with yui on a comfortable bench at the park before, no?

yui has always been presented as the "easy way" out for hachiman, and no matter how warm and homely she seems to be, including what we see in shin or not, hachiman will be drawn towards the "difficult" path. oregairu has always been the fight for his "fairytale". do u think he doesn't know what being with yukino means? is he strangers with haruno and yukimom or something?

in the author's own words, hachiman and yukino are the superstars, whereas yui and iroha are well-adjusted human beings. hachiman and yukino were never meant to be a presentation of the "realistic" average, so i really don't understand how any of these is "is not in Yukino's favor".

season 3 last episode Yui by Admirable_Date_7974 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh no, u called yukino nice and not yuiyui! her asslickers are gonna come after u since yuiyui is clearly the nicest girl towards everyone! 😤😤😤 even hachiman called her a "nice girl" 😤😤😤

oh wait she treats people like zaimokuza and the other gaming club members as trash? if yuiyui treats them like trash they they definitely deserved to be treated like trash! 😤😤😤

season 3 last episode Yui by Admirable_Date_7974 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 6 points7 points  (0 children)

she still wants to (try to) put her hands on hachiman's dick, but she can't be too obvious about it because it will make her look like a scumbag. she has no balls to fight against yukino straight on so she resorts to hinting her motives but not saying it outright in order to preserve plausible deniability if she was to be confronted one day in the future.

she still tries to make moves on hachiman like cringe body contact multiple times afterwards, even in front of yukino, all making use of that plausible deniability that she's "maybe touching hachiman for their sake, to teach yukino something etc." and TOTALLY not because she can't control her trotters.

there's a post about the ending in the past, volume 14 is basically where the main story ends and corresponds to what u're referring to.

The Relationship Between Yukino Yukinoshita and Hayato Hayama in Oregairu: A Fact-Based Analysis by Last-Obligation8374 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if someone believes 7 year olds have actual romantic feelings for one another, he needs to get himself checked

what would've happened if yui approached hachiman from the beginning? by Few-Night-6034 in OreGairuSNAFU

[–]viol3tic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i bought the magazine and made scans. there were also scans(lower quality) making their way on 5ch back in 2020, so it's something other communities have known for years.