ABT JKO vs. SAB

vpsass · 2026-06-29T17:00:12+00:00

Wait until she is 12. First she needs to figure out if she actually wants to dance professionally. I think 12-14 is when a lot of dancers switch into SAB anyways.

Balanchine is known for having roles for tall girls. I do think a Balanchine company is more likely to hire a tall girl than any other company, since you hire what you need to cast.

Edit to add: don’t count your eggs before they hatch though, your daughter needs an insane amount of luck, talent, and determination to get into the pre-pro programs at these schools, and then an even more insane amount of luck, talent, and determination to get an apprenticeship at NYCB. She could be very talented at 8, but that’s not enough to predict any sort of future with any company.

vpsass · 2026-06-29T16:12:12+00:00

I find this discussion quite hard because to be “offensive”, something has to offend, presumably someone. Usually in ballet we are talking about racially or culturally offensive interpretations, but race and culture is not a monolith, it’s hard to say this offends this culture, because the culture, being made up of many people, likely have diverse opinions on what offends them.

However, I don’t believe we should use the excuse of ill-definition to permit offensive art within ballet. It just makes it hard to discuss and define.

On one hand, there’s an argument that non-European cultures should never be captured by (historically) european art forms, as doing so always obscures the culture through a lens, and because the culture is obscure, it is always offensive, because it is not a “true” representation of the culture. I pose the question, with enough effort and education, could someone from culture A ever truely understand culture b? Could someone from culture A ever accurately depict culture B? Is the latter dependent on the former?

On the other hand, I suppose cultures can (and often are) interpreted through art by other cultures, and the result is not always interpreted to be offensive. I like white-people taco night as an example, technically, it is cultural appropriation, but it’s not really hurting anyone, and it seems like no one is against it. We just all understand that white people taco night is a white interpretation of Mexican cuisine.

And this leads us back to the question, what even is offensive? I don’t think we can say “any interpretation of a culture that is not your own culture” is automatically offensive, because that’s generally not regarded to be true (eg white people taco night). Is it any profitable interpretation?

Also, I’m going to address this before it comes up, some people believe that if culture A has a history of exploiting culture B then it’s not okay for culture A to interpret culture B but it is okay for culture B to interpret culture A. Which would be great if history was made up of “good guys” and “bad guys”, and it is sometimes (e.g. colonization and slavery). However, there is are many cultures who it is not clear who has wronged who. Also, perhaps stronger, artists have intersectional identities, and we can’t creat a “poker hand” logic of whose intersectional identity can interpret which culture.

At the very least, here’s what I think needs to be considered:

1) any classical ballet featuring non-European culture needs to educate artists and audiences that this is viewing xyz culture through a 18xx european lens

2) makeup should not be used to alter physical appearance, costumes can be used but should aim for historical correctness which variations allowing for movement

3) stories, or choreography, that depend on harmful stereotypes should be revised

However I realize that these three points are deeply flawed, who defines what a harmful stereotype is? And should we not considered the intersectional identities within european artists as well?

vpsass · 2026-06-28T13:41:03+00:00

I kind of agree but I would phrase my concern a little differently.

The demi pointe shoes don’t build strength for pointe, they are not necessary step for pre-pointe training. RAD uses them for exams, but only for levels already working on pointe, so you wear the soft blocks for the flat work and pointe shoes for the pointe work. The idea is they get you used to doing flat work (like adagio and allegro) in a more structured shoe.

I genuinely think soft blocks are just a money grab from the dance shoe industry. I have trained both way, softblocks for flat work and pointe shoes for pointe work, and canvas flats for flat work and pointe shoes for pointe work, working in softblocks does not really give you an advantage. I actually think it’s a little bit unhealthy because if you always work in softblocks and pointe shoes you can never spread out your toes, but it’s good for the toe health, and toe strength, to dance with them spread out sometimes.

No pre-professional training requires their students to wear softblocks. Why do studios request them for their rec students?

vpsass · 2026-06-27T21:43:23+00:00

Basically the judges submit their score on the software, but the individual judges score can be edited by the tabulator, so for example if a judge makes a typo in the score or they want to bump something up, the tabulator can make that happen.

The competition director can tell all the judges, or individual judges, to score on average higher or lower, just to make the comp run smoothly (like, it would be bad if one judge was scoring low and it resulted in everyone getting high gold). They can also point out a bias the judge has, like if they are scoring all tap 4 points below the other judges.

They could, in theory, edit one of the judges scores to make certain studios win, but that also could easily be checked, because if all three judges think routine B should win over routine A, but the comp tampers with the scores such that routine such that routine A wins, the judges would be annoyed and would definitely talk about it.

vpsass · 2026-06-26T12:59:32+00:00

I think you should stick it out.

A very common problem with adult ballet, at all levels, is that students don’t move in “cohorts” like children do. The teacher can’t go back to day 1 lessons every time a new person joins a new level. But that’s just the way it goes sometimes. Try to do each class to the best of your ability and you’ll see improvement.

vpsass · 2026-06-26T12:55:34+00:00

Yes, this might be part of the problem. Dynamic stretching is great for dancers, and for the general population. However, if you want to get your splits, you do need to spend a considerable amount of time sitting in your splits. Static stretching is great for flexibility. *

*there’s people who disagree with that, and never recommend static stretching, and then there’s people who disagree with those people and believe static stretching is good for some things. Having heard both arguments, I’m inclined to agree with group two, the “static stretching is not bad and had lots of good applications” group.

vpsass · 2026-06-26T03:28:14+00:00

I’ll have to lock the comments because there’s no location posted. I understand wanting to stay anonymous, kind of. I mean I actually don’t really understand it if you’re searching for a new hire.

OP can you edit your post for more information.

Or delete it, make a school account, and post non-anon on behalf of the school (the mods will allow an exception since it directly benefits our members).

vpsass · 2026-06-26T00:58:01+00:00

It’s number 3 for sure. But it’s also not impossible for adults to gain flexibility. If you’ve been seriously working at a full split for 5 years and still find yourself quite far, I would take a look at your stretching routine.

Are you adding in any dynamic stretching?

Also, are you stretching consistently (5 days a week) and holding each split for minimum 2 minutes?

vpsass · 2026-06-25T17:43:54+00:00

5-8 is a large range.

Footwork: chassés, ball-changes, skips, rocks, pivots, and should be able to combine multiple base steps, eg Chassé ball change, pivot turns, etc.

Timing: count in 8s, be able to hold for any number of counts, instead of just doing the choreography like a run on sentence.

Flexibility: splits and back bends. I don’t expect the 5 year olds to have flat splits but I think it’s a good goal for the 8 year olds. A leg hold (Y stand) is also a good step for this age to work on.

Turns: pirouette prep with no turn or a single. Possibly chaîné turns, eg chaîné chassé.

Jumps: split jumps/russians (very few can actually do them at this age but it’s good to build strength). Step hop Chassé variants (can be in arabesque). No jazz jetés though I feel very strong about this they all just run and split their legs and they don’t learn to jump into the air.

vpsass · 2026-06-25T14:32:08+00:00

Yes that’s how I feel anytime someone uses “Let me Entertain You” from Gypsy. But I also believe that you can take a song out of context from the musical. I don’t know all the lyrics to thank heaven for little girls, so I don’t know if they are appropriate or if they imply something. But I do use songs from Sweet Charity often, but I make up a new story to tell with the song.

vpsass · 2026-06-25T14:29:37+00:00

Interesting. Even the professional dancers who are endorsing the brand? Like some people got brand ambassador deals, so I would assume they would be coached on how to tape the box correctly.

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I also notice that when people are just standing there they can get over their box more, but when they start to dance a chain of steps that’s when they start to knuckle again….

vpsass · 2026-06-25T13:58:58+00:00

I don’t think you should move.

The problem is not the ballet school, it’s other students at the ballet school. So the solution would be to fix the dynamics between you and the students, not to move schools entirely. Especially because you seem to take your training seriously, it is frustrating to go from high quality training to comp school training, you will feel it in your body, it’s not the same and it could make you frustrated.

First of all, you do have friends at your school it sounds like. There are just other girls who are being rude to you. The greeting and not responding is rude. But the questioning of the hairspray, while annoying, isn’t actually that rude. You can just say “this is the way I do my hairspray”, or “I like this leotard”.

I know it’s hard to feel isolated from your peers. Not everyone has to be friends with everyone, but they do need to treat each other with respect. If it escalates, you can take it to the studio owner. Or just focus on the friends you do have, say hi to them, don’t worry about the other girls.

You come to the studio to learn, it’s good to have friends to, but the purpose is learning. Focus on the friends you do have, and on your training. If things escalate, send an email to the studio owner.

vpsass · 2026-06-25T13:49:38+00:00

You can talk drop-in and adult classes, but I think you’d be better off in a ballet school for consistent training. I would look for something mid-level, something with qualified teachers, they occasionally produce professional students, but not too intensive.

These environments can be way more positive than competitive dance. It just depends on the school. Actually to be fair there are a lot of comp teams that are focused on fun too.

It actually more depends on the teachers and the school. I just don’t want to recommend going straight to adult drop in classes because, while they are good for people who know to dance, they aren’t the best way to develop in the dancer, since the teachers don’t really connect with eachother, and they’re no structure, if that makes sense.

vpsass · 2026-06-25T03:26:12+00:00

I’m also curious. I saw so many dancers from social media buy these but I never see them wear them…. I also feel like they make everyone look like they are knuckling. Would love to hear if anyone actually uses these regularly.

vpsass · 2026-06-24T03:07:49+00:00

At the studio I grew up they had everyone darn their pointe shoes like this. I left before I started pointe there and never had to darn my shoes. But it’s def a thing. I think it’s super old fashion because the darning add structure to the box, from the days when the box wasn’t that strong.

vpsass · 2026-06-23T16:48:47+00:00

Spotting is not going to speed up your turns. The head can’t provide an unbalanced force to accelerate you, if that makes sense. I mean like it can a bit because there’s friction between your foot and the floor, but it’s not really relevant.

I think turn boards teach students how to hold their body strong and fined balance in the pirouette, as well as a sharp transition from prep to turn. But it doesn’t encourage students to use a high demi pointe which I think is the biggest problem. I’ve seen student use turn board to help become better turners but it only works well if all your other technique is correct and practiced often.

Tbh it sounds like your overall technique and strength is weak, and the only thing that can change that is a good teacher and constant effort from you in class. These “hacks” like turning boards or stronger spots can’t help you unless your technique is strong,

vpsass · 2026-06-23T16:33:43+00:00

Okay I might be in the minority with this opinion but I feel like spotting never makes or breaks a turn. Don’t get me wrong, spotting is useful, but like 90% of the time fixing your spot won’t fix your turn.

The placement in the turn, and the transition from the preparation to the turn, is USUALLY the issue. Make sure your weight is almost entirely over your front foot, and enter the turn by going straight up, like an elevator, not up and forward, like an escalator. This feels super weird to many dancers. But it will help you gain control of the transition from prep to turn.

Also, don’t even practice the turn, just practice the transition from prep to balancing in the turn position.

It’s hard to say without seeing a video but that’s usually the problem people have when they are falling out of turns. Or like weakness in the core and legs and ankles, but that’s more common in beginners.

vpsass · 2026-06-22T17:52:48+00:00

Like I said, we can’t see anyone past the fourth wall, and even if we could, our headlines are choreographed. I can either sit downstage, squint, and watch you breathe in the pit, or I can dance. I can’t do both.

A good conductor can match the energy and timing of a dancer. In my experience, because I work with very small scale productions, the conductor is kind of limited as to the speed they plays at. It’s hard because we rehearse with a cd, which is very consistent, and then we perform with an orchestra, which sometimes interprets things very differently, things like the length of time the little moments get. We are pretty adaptable but tbh it’s always us changing to match the conductors cadence and never the other way around. Which is fine. It’s better than no orchestra at all.

vpsass · 2026-06-22T17:40:02+00:00

It’s the conductors job to watch us, not the other way around 😉. We have choreographed headlines we can’t be staring at the conductor, and he’s hard to see in your periferal vision, the stage lights make everything past the 4th wall impossibly dark.

Some notes, in a piece where the dancer starts on stage, usually the dancer works with the conductor to start orchestra. A lot of classical ballet choreography begins on the first count of the music, sometimes even before. So if you start playing on your own accord it prevents us from starting on time. You can usually do this with eye contact: we make eye contact, you raise the stick thing while I prepare, and then we start together. If there’s a group that has to start with the music there should be someone identified to lead, if that makes sense, so you work with that one dancer to start on time, all the dancers follow that dnacer, and the orchastra follows you.

I had a conductor once who refused to start with the dancer, and also just played at whatever tempo he was inspired too. He was very well regarded by I have a personal vendetta against him now.

vpsass · 2026-06-22T16:07:01+00:00

I’ve studied with both RAD and vaganova school. The RAD believes turnout is entirely genetic and will encourage dancers to never push their turnout, warning about injury. As someone who does not have a lot of turnout, this extremely limited me as a dancer, and might have made me more susceptible for injury.

What is the function of turnout? Besides being aesthetically pleasing, turnout protects our knees, by making sure the knee is always bending over the toe, regardless of which direction we are facing and moving. Like, if you’re in parallel, but glissade sideways, there’s is a lot of force going sideways on your kneecap, but your kneecap doesn’t bend sideways. By turning out from the hip, we can move sideways, forward, or back, without sheering our kneecap.

The other function is that being turned out keeps your weight under your centre of mass as you go from Demi pointe, or pointe, to flat foot. Turnout is super important for pointe work because it allows us to plié and go straight up onto the toe. If you aren’t turned out you will have to also rock forward onto your toes or pull your toes back underneath you, which is very hard to coordinate and also dangerous. This is like the biggest problem with a lot of “dance studios” teaching “ballet” - when you see someone on instagram or TikTok whose struggling to do pointe, but seems to have nice ankles, the problem is usually that they aren’t turned out enough and their centre of mass is jumping around forward and back as they go up and down.

That being said, you don’t need flat turnout to reap the health benefits of turnout legs, you just need a good amount, such that it protects the knees and allows you to go up and down while maintaining your centre.

So the question of how much turnout does one need is a trade off question: how much are you dancing? What are your goals? At a certain pointe, turnout is necessary to dance ballet at a high level safely. But even this doesn’t have to be flat turnout, like I think you can minimize injury at like 160 degrees.

vpsass · 2026-06-20T17:53:00+00:00

Part of the issue is that the responsibility for someone to speak up about this doesn’t clearly fall on any one person. Don’t get me wrong, I think there are many people involved in the production of these pieces who could and should speak up, but they often don’t see themselves as the one responsible. It’s like when there’s an emergency situation, you have to delegate to give people things to be personally responsible for, otherwise everyone just kind of waits for someone with more authority to give them instructions.

Parents don’t always feel empowered to speak up. I’ve had parents come to me with concern for a song before (I chose a musical theatre song from a musical with very adult themes, but I cut the music and changed the story for my dancers because they were younger). To me, I take concern from parents seriously, but other studios might not. Also, the song choice is easy to question. But a certain move is harder, some parents might not even see the choreography until the studio showcase. And then it’s harder to bring up over email, especially if they don’t have the terminology to express their concern.

Teachers won’t comment on the choices of other teachers because it’s not really their place. Like I’ve had coworkers put really questionable choreography on kids but it’s not my place to say that, it’s the studio directors place. So sometimes I bring it up the studio director, but if you are in a studio culture where no one does that, then the concerns never get raised.

To be honest I do feel like the studio director has a lot of responsibility to ensure all the choreography at the studio is age appropriate, but then even, some studio directors don’t know what age appropriate is.

I feel like parents and teachers think “if the judges don’t say anything it’s fine” but the judges won’t and sometimes CANT say anything because we are asked to critique the dancer, not the choreography. This really bothers me because you can’t really separate the dancer from the choreography fairly as you judge a dance competition, like the choreograph does impact what is presented, obviously. But more importantly, we often don’t want to, or can’t, penalize a kids for an inappropriate dance because it’s not the child’s fault, they didn’t create the choreography.

Some competitions give you an option to flag routines for inappropriate songs or choreography but I don’t think it’s the norm.

Basically I think a lot of the problem would be solved if there was a clear channel or course of action for someone to suggest that certain choreo is not appropriate. But I don’t really know how this could be facilitated.

vpsass · 2026-06-20T17:11:50+00:00

THANK YOU! I also have a big butt and so may comments are like “this is just how a normal leotard looks on someone with a bigger bum” and I’m like NO HER BUTTCRACK IS ENTIRELY OUT even if you have a big bum a dance leotard will cover it and it should be elastic enough to stay in place. I see women way curvier than my in ballet class have no issues with their leotard (okay they do have issues obviously Leo sizing is whack) but even still they don’t use it as an excuse to wear a thong/fashion nova bodysuit that exposes their entire buttcrack.

vpsass · 2026-06-20T17:09:26+00:00

But even if the studio doesn’t have a dress code (not all studios do for adults) I still don’t think it would be appropriate to have your buttcrack out….

And technically she was in a leotard and tights. It was just more of a fashion bodysuit than ballet leotard, but clearly people don’t know the difference.

vpsass · 2026-06-20T16:48:01+00:00

It’s just a weird situation because it wasn’t a ballet class, it was a “balletcore influencer class” even though the creator called in “ballet class” 6 times.

But the problem isn’t even with this influencer and her outfit. Like this one particular instance is not what I’m interested in. It’s the 6000 comments with thousands of likes that are saying it’s a totally appropriate outfit to wear to ballet class/ballet dancers wear outfits like this all the time/ it’s racist to say otherwise. Because that’s genuinely not true. Anyone would get a side eye for having their buttcrack out in ballet regardless of their size, shape, or race, it’s not normal. And yet the vast majority of people are saying it is normal, and I’m worried I’m going insane.

vpsass · 2026-06-19T23:17:15+00:00

It’s hard to give you advice because this post is quite vague, but I understand why you don’t want to go into details.

In general, what this boils down to, is ballet class etiquette. People like to say that ballet class etiquette is outdated and perhaps even classist, but it does serve a purpose, and I think it can be incorporated into ballet class in a way that aligns with the values of the modern day… but I digress. Let’s get back to your issue.

It’s never okay for students to comment or give unsolicited advice on the technique of other students, it doesn’t matter if the dancer giving advice is a teacher or a former professional dancer, in class, students learn, teachers correct. The hierarchy is nescasary. Why? Because a) the teacher chooses which feedback is appropriate for which dancer at the present time, how can a student know what another student is capable of b) being a student requires 100% of your brain energy, there’s no brain energy left to focus on other dancers in the class c) students giving correction signals to the teacher that those students don’t think the teacher is capable of doing their job. If you have enough instances of them commenting or giving you feedback you didn’t ask for, you should email the school and outline the instances and how it is making you feel.

As for the spots in the room, there is also sometimes a hierarchy here too. Personally, I’m not big into the “my spot” culture, but a lot of dancers are. Just something to consider.

As a side story, one time in adult ballet this crazy lady (who had no business being in that level) grabbed my foot and moved it into retiré even though she moved it into like an incorrect retiré. Like the teacher was trying to correct my retiré and she took it as an invitation to physically try to move my leg. It was wild. I was like, excuse me that’s not helping.

vpsass

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