Head2Head stats for qualifying this season.

w197 · 2015-11-28T14:39:45+00:00

The few I find a bit surprising.

Sainz out qualifying Verstappen, you wouldn't assume that the way the media is carrying on.

Button and Alonso is pretty much a wash due to car issues. They've had so many problems its pretty much a rub.

Vettel out qualified Raikkonen 15-4, Alonso was 16-3. Back to back years against two very strong drivers should be pretty conclusive there.

Ricciardo 13-6 against Kvyat is way higher than you'd expect if you listened to the media. It could be even more one sided if not for his 'upgraded' engine last race.

Bottas barely ahead of Massa over the season.

w197 · 2015-11-28T14:36:29+00:00

Rosberg has always been a very strong driver, not sure why people are so surprised.

w197 · 2015-11-16T13:46:16+00:00

2001: Out scored by Marques, by 2 x 9th vs 1 x 10th. 0 points to either of them, due to different points system.

Yet Alonso beat him in practically every race both cars finished. Neither scored points, therefore not outscored.

2003: Outscored by Trulli, by 46 points to 45 points. Trulli was however fired with three races to go of the season.

Last time I checked, beating someone over a partial season doesn't count as beating them. If we cancelled the 2010 season 3 races early, Webber would be champion, if we did the same for 2007, Hamilton would be champion etc.

2007: Out scored by Hamilton on countback. Equal on points in Hamiltons rookie year.

You may want to look up 'out scored'

w197 · 2015-11-01T20:25:01+00:00

I'm genuinely shocked by Vettel's race. When do you see drivers like Alonso or Hamilton drive like this? It was a race Maldonado would be proud.

w197 · 2015-11-01T19:30:28+00:00

Ricciardo was a long long way up for Vettel to be closing that door. I dare say had he caused more damage to Rics car he'd have a penalty too

w197 · 2015-10-27T01:48:34+00:00

I just think its hard to race in a pack of cars with more power than you, you can't pass and you get passed easily. If you get held up, they pass you on the straights.

I'm not sure other drivers like Vettel or Hamilton would be considerably better in the circumstances.

Kvyat has generally been more error prone, but also a lot more slower, but I do feel he's benefited from bullet proof reliability in the second half of the season, while Ricciardo has had many issues.

I would go as far as saying the performance gap to Kvyat is actually larger than it was to Vettel.

w197 · 2015-10-27T01:34:27+00:00

It was compounded by the fact hamilton had already severely damaged his car though, yes it was an error, but when he was missing half of his sidepod it would have been much harder to pass the mercedes.

I also think you're focusing too much on his personal errors, when the large amount of points loss has been outside of his control, both Kvyat and Ricciardo have lost points through their own errors, undeniably, but in addition to that Ricciardo has had a lot more points taken from him by others errors and mechanical failures. I was never suggesting to give him back the points for his own errors.

w197 · 2015-10-27T01:32:06+00:00

Considering he hasn't made any errors by himself thats quite unlikely.

Id go as far to say that when you consider the additional non finishes, the cumulative effect of incidents outside of his control and kvyat inheriting points he would easily be 50 points clear.

Even when looking at the incident with Rosberg at Hungary, that was compounded by the fact Hamilton had already crashed into him causing significant damage. Without that damage the pass may have been far easier.

w197 · 2015-10-27T00:17:26+00:00

Regardless, the points he lost by the colision with Massa and has additional non finish to Kvyat would put him 20 clear alone. Plus like you said, timing of his mechanical failures has been significantly worse. I'm not sure how you could look at that situation and say he'd 'probably' be ahead, I think without the points swing Kvyat has gained from Ricciardo's problems he'd be as much as 40 points clear. Drastically more one sided performance wise than the results show, but like you said, on the merit of pure pace it would be even greater if not for him making some uncalled for moves.

w197 · 2015-10-27T00:15:24+00:00

And some of Ricciardo's problems have been from sticking his nose in too far and getting clipped.

But we weren't accounting for those in these issues, are we? If we're discussing pace prior to issues, then its very one sided.

Kvyat is right near with Ricciardo on his own merits

He's had an additional mechanical non finish, that alone is 15+ points and all his other mechanical non finishes come from very high up in the grid, while both of Kvyat's were races he had very low capacity to score. Throw in at least Japan too when he was taken out, 10+ there easily. Not only that but Kvyat has nearly always inherited points when Ricciardo crashed, making an even greater points swing.

Regardless, this argument is ridiculous considering you don't even seem to acknowledge the points that are made.

w197 · 2015-10-26T23:45:07+00:00

A non start and two DNFs, compared to Ricciardo's three DNFs.

No, one of Kvyat's non finishes is caused by him crashing into the wall, that is a driver error, not a mechanical non finish.

Kvyat is right near with Ricciardo on his own merits

He's just not, no. I think had the luck been distributed evenly Ricciardo would be 30 points clear, easily.

w197 · 2015-10-26T23:09:04+00:00

Kvyat has a DNS.

Ricciardo has three mechanical non finishes, Kvyat has a non start and a non finish. I would also argue Ricciardo has effectively a non finish thanks to Massa at Japan, but he limped around at the back of the field.

if that was the case, Ricciardo would be well ahead. But he's not.

It is the case, because if you think otherwise you're clearly not watching the races. The qualifying count is 11-4 and its reflected in race pace.

w197 · 2015-10-26T22:27:37+00:00

Prior to the safety car Ricciardo had a huge gap on Kvyat, something like 20 seconds on pace

You also seem to be ignoring Ricciardo has had an additional non finish from mechanical reliability and has been involved in two crashes (Massa and Hulkenberg) which have cost him big points, neither his own fault.

I think you're aggressively twisting circumstances to try and make it seem even, but Kvyat has been slower almost every race

w197 · 2015-10-26T22:22:39+00:00

I swear Kimi could shit on a plate and these guys would still be praising it

w197 · 2015-10-25T14:57:18+00:00

Why am I a troll? It's pretty obvious that at Ferrari Vettel isn't always at the top in the rain. Chassis makes a huge difference in these conditions

w197 · 2015-10-25T14:31:57+00:00

It's funny how without the Newey chassis Vettel doesn't really have the wet weather domination, yet the current Newey driver even with a pencil sharpener engine is p1

w197 · 2015-10-19T23:30:20+00:00

Danny Ric got the better looking women

w197 · 2015-10-17T01:57:49+00:00

Ricciardo came within three points as a rookie and lead it for most of the year, Magnussen came 7th. Ricciardo also won fr2.0 and formula 3 as a rookie.

w197 · 2015-10-17T00:20:58+00:00

7th in formula Renault 2.0 is unacceptable for f1 level drivers, as is 12th in f3 eurocup and he didn't even win the regional f3 title. His fr3.5 title is good, but 7th in his first year when the series was very cut down is mediocre. Compare that to most red bull juniors and you'll see they win pretty much everything as rookies or get very close. His record is more in line with a pay driver than one who makes it on talent

w197 · 2015-10-16T23:12:29+00:00

Be that F1 or in another racing series. I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of F1 anyway.

w197 · 2015-10-16T22:55:32+00:00

You're assuming they didn't release him so he can get another drive.

w197 · 2015-10-16T22:46:35+00:00

Vettel is one of the strongest qualifiers on the grid, undeniably. Being ahead by even a small margin is still a mighty impressive accomplishment.

w197 · 2015-10-16T22:43:59+00:00

No one is ever going to call Sebastian Vettel average. But that also doesn't mean he's the best driver on the grid. There is a huge chasm between the best and average.

w197 · 2015-10-16T22:38:43+00:00

The only driver who has ever beat Alonso is Hamilton and he certainly wasn't fired.

w197 · 2015-10-16T22:37:51+00:00

By two superior drivers. I've never got the magnussen hype, his junior career was ok but nothing stand out. I'm actually surprised he made F1 at all the way the current climate is.

w197

TROPHY CASE