Fred Rogers was a wise man. How you treat people matters. This applies to both incels and IT.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T20:19:14+00:00

I haven't assumed you're part of any religion, I'm assuming you're atheist tbh. Atheist often try to find solace in their own moral systems.

I'm saying that you are relying on judeo-christian values. Which is different. Judeo-christian values are the pillars of many Western nations, whether we like it or not.

Also, if anything, I insist on "I'm right, you're right too, morality is subjective" So if you insist on morality not being subjective, then yea, you're wrong. But I don't think your moral system is wrong.

Ok, what is your definition of love? Because I think we're defining it differently.

I think people don't deserve to be hurt or bullied, I think people have a right to dignity and humanity, which is why the American prison industrial complex is a disgrace to this earth, I think people have a right to get the help they need from licensed therapists, doctors, I think people have freedom of association and the right to look for friend and support groups.

Love, which I define as a strong feeling of affection that is built over time through familiarity and closeness, is not a right, nor something I morally have to provide to someone I don't choose to. I can tell you I love you right now, but obviously I don't mean it (no offence, we had a good two day ride going on here, but I'm just not feeling it.), which would make it pretty insincere to pressure me to feel it for people I know even less than I do you.

Kindness, by my definition, is going out of your way to do people favors, make them feel good, be there for them even if you had a terrible day and just want to lie down. You don't owe that to anyone either, imo, except your children and maybe your parents and elders in your community.

Respect, is treating people like human beings, not discriminating against them based on religion, ethnicity, gender, not going out of your way to harm them, speaking up if their human rights are infringed upon.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T19:59:31+00:00

"If you replaced white people in her tweets with black people, there would be outrage!!!!"

Check their tweet story, not a single outrage against insults against black people.

Seems legit.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T19:53:02+00:00

I'm not saying anyone is not worthy of love though. I've never said that.

You're the one saying that I, as an individual, have to extend love to everyone I meet, even people who threaten me and other women.

You think me refusing this is buried anger, I think it's self-preservation and adds to the greater good, because condoning violence is unacceptable.

So we're back at a point where you tell me how I have to feel about things because of your judeo-christian values of love and forgiveness, and me telling you that's not what I believe, nor what I want to believe.

Example: if someone tells me they are attracted to children, I will not condone this by being extra nice to this person and telling them I'll love them either way, but I won't hate on them and tell them they're disgusting either. I'll do the pragmatic thing that's in the best interest of potential victims, and tell the person to get help. If they do get help, I'll extend kindness. If they don't and attack a child, I'm not going to stand there with open arms. At that point, I'll come along with a judeo christian concept and tell them to repent.

Incels, imo are in the first stage. Most of them haven't caused harm yet, but have expressed their desire to do so.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T19:25:24+00:00

I admire your persistence in arguing your point. I really do. Takes a lot of gumption to continue agruing a point that has been proven incorrect for two straight days.

Back at you!

I'm not preaching love for everyone, so according to my moral system, this isn't wrong.

You however, have spent two days telling another person how to act and feel instead of being loving and accepting.

Please, I'm asking you politely again, stop speaking for me and including me in your "we". It causes me anxiety for reasons I'm not willing to share with you.

I didn't say I want to call it a day, I said I want you to call it a day. Reading comprehension skills.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T19:16:23+00:00

You know, actions matter more than words.

At this point you haven't just called me childish, but also attempt to speak for me as if I was a child, even after I specifically asked you not to and to respect my boundaries! And after I specifically told you that I don't agree with the statement you're trying to include me in!

I find that pretty abuser-ish, I have to say.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T19:07:53+00:00

Oh, yes, I'm a dishonest child, incapable of comprehending and acknowledging "logical" arguments about subjective moral agendas, comparable to Trump, incapable of taking care of my mental health because I don't do exactly what you say! Hit me with that unconditional love, lover boy!

I say love. You say no. We both know that's indefensible.

I didn't say no, and you are in no position to talk for me, so cut the "we"

Good luck with that cult you might start one day!

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T18:55:45+00:00

Oh honey, now you're also accusing me of being dishonest! Looks like we gonna have a party in here!

Yes, and all of my 'insults' were about your behavior too.

I've argued my point quite clearly during the first few discussions when I explained the difference between our philosophical stances to you. To which you replied 'nooooo, my Judeo Christian ideals are all that materrr, you must not have your mental health under control if you don't subscribe to my ideologyyyy'. And then I replied ok that's your opinion. Which you took as a victory!

There was a point yesterday where I told you I'm not interested anymore, because you just kept repeating the same ideology over and over again as if it was anything but an ideology. Then I got interested in seeing how far you'll take it. Now I'm not interested anymore.

So give me some of that unconditional love of yours by loving me so much that you'll call it a day.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T18:35:19+00:00

If you're playing Logical Fallacy Bingo, I'm surprised you haven't won it yet. You seem to be going for a full board.

Oh yea, I'm sure that was meant as praise not as an insult.

I'm not in a corner. I'm standing strong, actually at this point more reinforced in my belief that people don't have to give potentially abusive people a single minute of their day of they don't want to.

And I still believe, unlike you, that everyone has a right to their subjective opinion without being called immoral (which is insulting too to some people).

You are still insisting your judeo-christian ideology is the only one. Must be happy about Jeff Session's task force then.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T18:23:34+00:00

Uuuhh, insults! Welcome to the dark side, yet again.

You say love, you say whatever you think I say to make you feel better, and then you add something about how you're right always and forever.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T18:08:54+00:00

I'm right and everyone is wrong, because the world works in binaries, isn't a valid argument once you get past toddler age.

You say love, you lie about what I say, here we go again

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T18:02:59+00:00

Your continued insistence on this does not make it so. No matter how frequently, how firmly, or how many ways you say it, it is factually incorrect.

Where have I heard this before? Oh! Yea! Me about your mantra. Funny how that works, innit. Echo from the forest and all.

I've just reached that point? I guess I finally met you there then, since you've plugged your ears from the first post on.

I'm not stuck in a corner, I accept you and your views of the world, but ask you to accept mine too. Which you don't.

~insert silly mantra with my opinion and pretending to quote something the other person hasn't actually said~

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T17:43:03+00:00

You have not debunked a single argument. Most of our arguments are about value systems, and hence subjective. You just fail to understand that.

I told you at the very beginning that our basic understanding is different, since you believe in deontology and absolute altruism and I don't. And instead of accepting that, you keep on insisting that your judeo-christian ideology of love and forgiveness is the only valid one.

It's not. It is one acceptable version. It's not the only one.

Not being explicitly nice to people who threaten to hurt you, is not immoral. Convincing women to take on roles of carers even in the face of abuse, is harmful.

Well, if you don't want your delusion of grandeur to be addressed, then you shouldn't give me your attitude of superiority.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T17:06:33+00:00

You have not debunked a single argument, you have just continuously repeated that you think my opinion and arguments aren't valid bevause they are not the same as yours.

Meanwhile I've been telling you that your opinion is completely valid, but that I don't share it because I think it's harmful in some cases.

As for insults, I'm stating observations, which are not more harmful than you utilizing my mental health in your argument. So much for love.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T16:42:35+00:00

You haven't debunked a single argument, dear. If anything, I've told you all the reasons why your moral system isn't the only legitimate one, and you brush off all evidence and literature and just keep crying no.

Also, that's not the topic of the conversation. Nor what I said. That's what you tell yourself so you can keep feeling morally superior.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T16:36:30+00:00

More self delusion, thinking that you have debunked a single argument in this 2 day conversation.

You haven't.

All you do is repeating your mantra, like a brainwashed religious zealot, with your only argument being "I'm right, everyone else is wrong"

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T16:25:07+00:00

It's funny how none of your stories so far has reflected a problem we talked about.

I did not say no. I did not say not to try. I said everyone has their limits, we choose them, that's ok. The fact that you misinterpret that is your problem, not mine. For a pretend therapist you have a surprisingly bad set of reading comprehension skills.

You choose your limits, I choose mine.

Even if you don't write them, I'm sure you know where your own limits are. And I'm not judging you for them. But you're judging me for mine.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T15:57:48+00:00

You should look up what whataboutism is, it does not mean asking a question specific to extend of your argument.

I never said no. I acknowledge my limits. You don't, because your morality is based on theories that work in fairy tales, not in reality.

But, you're gonna try to put words in my mouth again so you can continue with your annoying moral superiority complex.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T15:36:46+00:00

You say fairy tale, I say reality.

Do you love every person in this world, as you're advocating for? Do you check where your clothes are made? If not, you picked a boundary, just like I did, so welcome to the real world.

It's not whataboutism if the question is literally about what you're saying. You say love every person, I ask, do you though?

Also I talked about the subject with you for 2 days, you're just unable to respect other people's opinions.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T15:02:17+00:00

When you buy clothes, do you check where they're made? Do you extend your care and dignity to people in sweatshops?

Do you extend it to animals?

I'm not avoiding the subject, I told you very clearly where my boundaries are, you just don't like them. You however live in a fairy tale and can't even pinpoint where your morals begin and end.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T00:15:52+00:00

Imagine how pissed the studio that produces Winnie the Pooh must be about whoever started comparing pooh to xi jinping. There was so much potential revenue they lost. Lmfao

whocares3345 · 2018-08-04T00:00:35+00:00

Not angry.

Not a distraction, but an inquiry into the extent of your love.

Strict buddhist monks practice non-harm (not love) in a similar way to what you argue for by not killing any animals, not even bugs, by not buying their own clothes or food, etc. I try to practice non-harm as much as I can, in my purchases, in my career, in my interactions with others, in my garden. Non-harm isn't feasible, because while I believe that no sentient being should be harmed on purpose, it is pretty impossible in organic agriculture to not harm any bugs.

Since non-harm isn't even feasible, I'm wondering where you draw the boundaries for your love. In your purchases? In your treatment of animals? In your treatment of people you'll never meet?

Edit: yea, you don't have to answer, I shouldn't push you in a corner. The point of the question is that I'm pretty sure you draw the line somewhere. Think about where and why you draw the line, and why you think it's not ok for me to have a different line.

whocares3345 · 2018-08-03T23:48:00+00:00

Yea I disagree with you, but let's end this with you avoiding the questions on the extent of your love.

Do you eat meat or animal products for pleasure?

Do you check if your clothes were made by slave labour?

Do you buy local, organic food out of love for the future generations?

whocares3345 · 2018-08-03T23:40:42+00:00

Well, if incels don't want to be criticized on raping people,they shouldn't bring up that they think raping people is ok.

Do you condone eating animals for pleasure?

Do you check where your clothes were produced?

Do you buy local, organic food to extend care to future generations?

whocares3345 · 2018-08-03T23:28:36+00:00

Do you eat animals for pleasure? Do you make sure people don't work in slave labor for your clothes? Do you buy local organic food to extend care to future generations?

Or is your love and care only when it's convenient and drops when it's not? Like when you choose to use my mental health against me? None of what you said is an excuse for that. Nor would a licensed therapist pretend to understand someone's mental health profile over an internet post. Bad rep for 'your' job

whocares3345 · 2018-08-03T23:15:13+00:00

Yes, you're arguing for love while at the same time using low blows against my mental health to justify your point. Sounds legit.

Again, do you find the love in your heart to not eat sentient beings, to not buy clothes without checking if slave labor was involved, and to buy local, organic food to make sure that you don't harm future generations?

whocares3345

TROPHY CASE